Question no Protestant can answer

[theefaith]

Oh they taught falsehoods my friend . Some folks just cant let go of their savoir the RCC . But as for me i shall cling to CHRIST .

they are not personally impeccable no
But the one true church universal cannot teach error Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
The unity of faith without error
Unity of the spirit
Can Christ teach error?

 

[theefaith]

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.



Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Is 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

 

[Curtis]

Peter spoke accurately of you when he wrote:
2 Pet. 3:16
There are some things in them (Paul's Letters) that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

First of all - Jesus didn't condemn Tradition OR the Traditions of His Church - of which HE gave FULL Authority to declare on His behalf (Matt. 16:18, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23). He condemned the made-up traditions that the Scribes and Pharisees imposed on the people that USURPED the Word of God. These are referred to as "Qorban" in context.

As for your claim that Jesus and the NT writers DIDN'T appeal to Tradition but "ONLY" what was written - you need another Bible lesson . . .

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on ORAL TRADITION to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Once again - the Bible does NOT support the false Protestant invention of "Sola Scriptura" . . .

New revelation given to NT writers, is not following oral tradition.

 

[BreadOfLife]

New revelation given to NT writers, is not following oral tradition.

And that's your response??

I gave you no less that EIGHT examples proving that Jesus and the NT writers relied on ORAL Tradition and NOT Sola Scriptura.
I also showed that there is not a SINGLE verse of Scripture - OT or NT - that supports the 16th century Protestant invention that Scripture is our "SOLE Authority".

you're going to have to do better than that . . .

 

[Brakelite]

Scripture is indeed Authoritative -

Until the Catholic Church says it isn't.

gave you no less that EIGHT examples proving that Jesus and the NT writers relied on ORAL Tradition and NOT Sola Scriptura.

You gave incidents where apostles or disciples verbally taught the people. Can you show us where any of them actually contradicted scripture?
Jesus could have settled on verbally teaching the two disciples in Emmaus. Or to convince them, He could have worked several miracles. But no. What He taught them was to trust scripture. What He taught them in His lesson was the same as those Bereans received and practiced. The Bible and the Bible only is to be the source of every doctrine, and the foundation of faith and practice.

 

[Brakelite]

And your idiotic and unsubstantiated charge that "millions were murdered" by the Church is nonsense. I've heard numbers ranging anywhere from 2 million to over 150 million - and not ONE of them is substantiated by history. Just another blanket slur that has grown over time like the "telephone game".

KJV Revelation 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

All that were slain upon the earth sounds like millions to me. Not that the Catholic church was wholly responsible, because Babylon as a spiritual entity opposed to God and His people had been around since Babel. But as the beast of Revelation 13:1 reveals, Babylon, that harlot, is closely associated with the Papacy, and I'm the NT context, Babylon reveals itself or identifies itself with the fallen Christian apostate church, which sits in the temple of God (the church) proclaiming that she is God.
For the last 2000 years her culpability in numerous wars, crusades, inquisitions, genocide and persecution against all who would oppose her is not myth or legend. Did the Vatican ever rebuke the Mafia, or did she just quietly accept the tithes and offerings from them? From the time of Clovis, through Charlemagne, Louis 14?, And numerous other Catholic Kings who waged war on behalf of the Papacy against even Christian churches throughout Europe and Britain to the present day (Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Ireland...) those numbers keep mounting up. But the thing is this. Jesus promised, promised that is, that anyone who has the truth would be set free from sin. How can an organization that claims to have perfect truth, be also so violently vicious and evil toward others... Is that not sin? By their fruits shall we not know them?

 

[Brakelite]

KJV Revelation 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

All that were slain upon the earth sounds like millions to me. Not that the Catholic church was wholly responsible, because Babylon as a spiritual entity opposed to God and His people had been around since Babel. But as the beast of Revelation 13:1 reveals, Babylon, that harlot, is closely associated with the Papacy, and I'm the NT context, Babylon reveals itself or identifies itself with the fallen Christian apostate church, which sits in the temple of God (the church) proclaiming that she is God.
For the last 2000 years her culpability in numerous wars, crusades, inquisitions, genocide and persecution against all who would oppose her is not myth or legend. Did the Vatican ever rebuke the Mafia, or did she just quietly accept the tithes and offerings from them? From the time of Clovis, through Charlemagne, Louis 14?, And numerous other Catholic Kings who waged war on behalf of the Papacy against even Christian churches throughout Europe and Britain to the present day (Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Ireland...) those numbers keep mounting up. But the thing is this. Jesus promised, promised that is, that anyone who has the truth would be set free from sin. How can an organization that claims to have perfect truth, be also so violently vicious and evil toward others... Is that not sin? By their fruits shall we not know them?

Like @theefaith said, the Catholic Church through it's sacraments of supposedly the only vehicle through which the grace of God is available. What grace did the Waldenses receive... The Celtic church in Britain which Patrick himself had a hand in establishing... What grace did they receive at the hands of Catholic Kings bent on capturing Britain for the Pope? Where was this grace when Waldensian children and babies were being thrown over cliffs by Catholic soldiers at the behest of their leaders following papal instructions? Where was the grace shown non Catholic Christians in Wales. The Apostolic church in Britain had survived 200 years at least before Augustine arrived with his political links to the king and queen of Kent. After several arranged marriages between Catholic princesses and Celtic Christian Kings, the faith of the latter was undermined, and several reputable historians have written extensively of the military campaigns that Augustine then prompted to destroy the Welsh Celtic church at Bangor, where there was centered a Christian school comprising of at least 2000 young students. That has been the Catholic historical narrative ever since. Political and military intervention in order to gain authority and power. It has absolutely zilch to do with the love of God, the gospel, or "grace". The only authority the Catholic Church has is that granted to her by the pagan emperor Justinian. Jesus gave His authority to the Apostolic church and it's descendants to which the Catholic church has no claim or right of ownership. The Celtic church in Britain... The Waldensian church in Italy and France... The Gothic Arian Christians of the earlier ages converted by Wulfillas... The Assyrian and Persian Christian churches of the east were all Apostolic churches receiving their faith directly from the apostles and subsequent missionaries of churches established by them... All of them were established long before Rome had it's own hierarchal structure and identity.

 

[JunChosen]

You are conflating Scriptural Authority with Scripture ALONE (Sola Scriptura).

Is not Scriptural Authority and Scripture Alone connote the same meaning?

Scripture is indeed Authoritative - but NOWHERE do we read that it is our "SOLE" Authority.

WRONG!- Scripture is indeed the Sole Authority if you know where to look!

Revelation 22:18-19 reads:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

By God declaring the above, Scripture IS indeed the Sole Authority by which we adhere to!

I have presented an airtight Scriptural argument against Sola Scriptura by illustrating that Christ's CHURCH is shown to be our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19...,

Christ's church the final Authority? We have discussed this issue in the past and you still have NOT learned. Again, read my lips: there is NO particular church of Christ.
The church of Christ is comprised of ALL believers scattered in different local congregations throughout the world.

You and your church do not see this teaching because you have no knowledge nor understanding whatsoever of Matthew 16:18-19. You think you do but you do not!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Curtis]

God always establishes order in men with the people’s obedience to hierarchical authority!

The church order!
The family order!
The civil order!

All require obedience to hierarchical authority!

Even in the angelic order there is hierarchy!

The church is not a democracy but a kingdom!

Joseph administered the kingdom under pharaoh while receiving obedience from His brothers!

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!
God - Christ - Peter - the apostles - the apostles successors - the people

The nature of the church is authority in hierarchy producing order!
Unity of the truth (thee faith) and the spirit!

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

And the top authority is the scriptures.

Period.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Scripture is for DOCTRINE, for reproof of WRONG DOCTRINE, for CORRECTION of false doctrine. and for INSTRUCTION of salvational doctrine.

Individual believers are ordered to study and rightfully discern what they have to say:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Notice it doesn’t say to study the catechism, or study oral tradition, but to study only the scriptures- they have the final authority.

In fact the Bereans are called noble for not accepting the teaching of Paul the apostle, until they searched the SCRIPTURES to see IF IT BE SO.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is not Scriptural Authority and Scripture Alone connote the same meaning?

No.
Scripture is Authoritative but it is not the SOLE Authority.
Christ's Church is Authoritative - but it is not the SOLE Authority. It IS, however, our FINAL earthly Authority - and I have proven this numerous times now (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

These verses state that WHATEVER His Church binds or looses on earth will be bound and loosed in Heaven.

WRONG!- Scripture is indeed the Sole Authority if you know where to look!
Revelation 22:18-19 reads:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

By God declaring the above, Scripture IS indeed the Sole Authority by which we adhere to!

This is talking about the scroll pertaining to Revelation ONLY and NOT the entire Bible.
Learn how to rightly divide the Word of God . . .

Christ's church the final Authority? We have discussed this issue in the past and you still have NOT learned. Again, read my lips:

there is NO particular church of Christ.
The church of Christ is comprised of ALL believers scattered in different local congregations throughout the world.

You and your church do not see this teaching because you have no knowledge nor understanding whatsoever of Matthew 16:18-19. You think you do but you do not!

To God Be The Glory

WRONG again.

The Catholic Church is the Original Tree from which ALL Protestantism splintered - and continues to perpetually splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed sects that ALL teach different doctrines - yet ALL claim to be "The Church".

Christ's Church is UNITED - it is ONE (John 17:20-23). A shining beacon, a "city on a hill that cannot be hidden" (Matt. 5:14).
It is NOT a gaggle of disjointed or "scattered" believers who ALL believe in different doctrines.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And the top authority is the scriptures.

Period.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Scripture is for DOCTRINE, for reproof of WRONG DOCTRINE, for CORRECTION of false doctrine. and for INSTRUCTION of salvational doctrine.

Individual believers are ordered to study and rightfully discern what they have to say:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Notice it doesn’t say to study the catechism, or study oral tradition, but to study only the scriptures- they have the final authority.

In fact the Bereans are called noble for not accepting the teaching of Paul the apostle, until they searched the SCRIPTURES to see IF IT BE SO.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

WRONG.
The "Top Authority" is Christ., and HE gave His Church supreme earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

He is the HEAD of His Church, which is . . .
- His Body (Col 1:18)
- The FULLNESS of Him (Eph. 1:22-23)
- The Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15)
- CHRIST Himself (Acts 9:4-5)

Learn how to rightly divide the Word of Truth . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Until the Catholic Church says it isn't.

The Church has never made this statement - nor WOULD she.
The Scriptures PROVE the Supreme earthly authority of the Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

You gave incidents where apostles or disciples verbally taught the people. Can you show us where any of them actually contradicted scripture?
Jesus could have settled on verbally teaching the two disciples in Emmaus. Or to convince them, He could have worked several miracles. But no. What He taught them was to trust scripture. What He taught them in His lesson was the same as those Bereans received and practiced. The Bible and the Bible only is to be the source of every doctrine, and the foundation of faith and practice.

That's REALLY funny - because the Bible doesn't make this claim.
Where do you guys get this nonsense??

Tell me - does the Bible tell us which Books belong in it?
OR, was it the CHURCH who declared this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit??

I'll give you some time to come up with the answer . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

KJV Revelation 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

All that were slain upon the earth sounds like millions to me. Not that the Catholic church was wholly responsible, because Babylon as a spiritual entity opposed to God and His people had been around since Babel. But as the beast of Revelation 13:1 reveals, Babylon, that harlot, is closely associated with the Papacy, and I'm the NT context, Babylon reveals itself or identifies itself with the fallen Christian apostate church, which sits in the temple of God (the church) proclaiming that she is God.
For the last 2000 years her culpability in numerous wars, crusades, inquisitions, genocide and persecution against all who would oppose her is not myth or legend. Did the Vatican ever rebuke the Mafia, or did she just quietly accept the tithes and offerings from them? From the time of Clovis, through Charlemagne, Louis 14?, And numerous other Catholic Kings who waged war on behalf of the Papacy against even Christian churches throughout Europe and Britain to the present day (Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Ireland...) those numbers keep mounting up. But the thing is this. Jesus promised, promised that is, that anyone who has the truth would be set free from sin. How can an organization that claims to have perfect truth, be also so violently vicious and evil toward others... Is that not sin? By their fruits shall we not know them?

So, because YOU idiodically misinterpret the Whore of Babylon to be the Catholic Church - you claim that we killed "MILLIONS" of Protestants?

As I schooled some of your fellow Scripturally-bankrupt, anti-Catholic friends in another thread - the Whore of Babylon more closely resembles apostate Jerusalem - NOT the Catholic Church.

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill
- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills: Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet, Mount of Corruption, Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City"
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

Apostate Jerusalem has the blood of God’s holy people on her hands (prophets and martyrs) – NOT the Catholic Church (Rev 17:6, Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34, Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

She (The Whore) is called, "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)

Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

We read that the “ten horns” and the beast will hate the prostitute. “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire” (Rev. 17:16).
What happened in 70 AD? The destruction of Jerusalem.

YOUR problem is that you blindly follow the idiotic rants f your foundress/goddess, Ellen White instead of actually STUDYING the Scriptures.
Do your homework . . .

 

[Brakelite]

The Church has never made this statement - nor WOULD she.

Yet the church denies the authority of scripture every 7th day of the week.

The Scriptures PROVE the Supreme earthly authority of the Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

I think the authority of the word of God is somewhat higher than the church. Christ, the head of the church, etc etc. I'm sure you are familiar with that.

OR, was it the CHURCH who declared this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit??

Yes, it was agreed by Christians... But well before there was any hierarchal organized church in Rome. The Apostolic churches outside of Rome had the scriptures before Jerome or that pagan emperor Constantine put anything together.

 

[Curtis]

As I educated you in my last post - Scripture tells us that the Holy spirit won't allow His Church to TEACH error.

There will ALWAYS be wicked men within the Body of Christ - as there was in the beginning, starting with Judas.
We were WARNED about this in Scripture (Matt. 7:15-20).

Don't you guys ever READ your Bible??

Better read Jesus’ message to the 7 churches, in Revelation- because Jesus says they are teaching wrong doctrines in many of them.

 

[Brakelite]

So, because YOU idiodically misinterpret the Whore of Babylon to be the Catholic Church - you claim that we killed "MILLIONS" of Protestants?

Nope. Not what I said. Those"millions" go back a lot earlier than the 16th century..

the Whore of Babylon more closely resembles apostate Jerusalem

Closely isn't any where near enough. God is particular in His prophetic pictures... He doesn't want anyone making mistakes like you are promoting... You pretend to be "schooling" people while you have ignored 1000 years of biblical scholarship.

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill
- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills: Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet, Mount of Corruption, Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City"
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

All the above directly point to the Catholic church. The hills aren't literal as the prophecy clearly indicates... They are kind of empires. The rest fall so nearly into the Papacy's lap it is nothing other than blindness, and telecon 1000 years of biblical scholarship to reject it.

We read that the “ten horns” and the beast will hate the prostitute. “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire” (Rev. 17:16).

Yep. And your preterist hermeneutic is nonsense.

YOUR problem is that you blindly follow the idiotic rants f your foundress/goddess, Ellen White instead of actually STUDYING th

And such is the typical reaction of those who haven't read her.

 

[Brakelite]

And their successors acts 1:26

So who was Thomas's successors in India and why did the Jesuits persecute them in the 17th century? The Celtic church in Britain was established very early through missionaries who must have been sent there by Apostolic successors... Why did the Catholic Church persecute them in the 6th century? The same could be said for the Assyrian and Persian churches, the church in Ethiopia which began through the disciple/successor of Philip. Why does the Catholic Church deny that history? Is it because those Apostolic churches, established by Apostolic succession, taught scripture and rejected the myths and fables of Rome? I think yes.

 

[theefaith]

New revelation given to NT writers, is not following oral tradition.

Teaching of Christ and His apostles!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;

Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

John 17:8
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Acts 20:24
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

1 Corinthians 11:23
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

——————

False doctrine!

Jn 8:32 the truth shall make you free!
The opposite is also true, false doctrine will enslave you!

2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[theefaith]

Like @theefaith said, the Catholic Church through it's sacraments of supposedly the only vehicle through which the grace of God is available. What grace did the Waldenses receive... The Celtic church in Britain which Patrick himself had a hand in establishing... What grace did they receive at the hands of Catholic Kings bent on capturing Britain for the Pope? Where was this grace when Waldensian children and babies were being thrown over cliffs by Catholic soldiers at the behest of their leaders following papal instructions? Where was the grace shown non Catholic Christians in Wales. The Apostolic church in Britain had survived 200 years at least before Augustine arrived with his political links to the king and queen of Kent. After several arranged marriages between Catholic princesses and Celtic Christian Kings, the faith of the latter was undermined, and several reputable historians have written extensively of the military campaigns that Augustine then prompted to destroy the Welsh Celtic church at Bangor, where there was centered a Christian school comprising of at least 2000 young students. That has been the Catholic historical narrative ever since. Political and military intervention in order to gain authority and power. It has absolutely zilch to do with the love of God, the gospel, or "grace". The only authority the Catholic Church has is that granted to her by the pagan emperor Justinian. Jesus gave His authority to the Apostolic church and it's descendants to which the Catholic church has no claim or right of ownership. The Celtic church in Britain... The Waldensian church in Italy and France... The Gothic Arian Christians of the earlier ages converted by Wulfillas... The Assyrian and Persian Christian churches of the east were all Apostolic churches receiving their faith directly from the apostles and subsequent missionaries of churches established by them... All of them were established long before Rome had it's own hierarchal structure and identity.

mall heretics, schismatics, and apostates are our the church, the one ark of salvation!
You really ought to check on what some of these groups actually believed

Doctrine of heretics

The one true church founded by Christ on Peter the apostles and their successors verses the heretics, schismatics, and apostates!

Simon Magnus: the father of all heretics!
Condemned by Saint Peter!

Early church:
Gnostics: secret or hidden knowledge of salvation.
Novationism: extreme rightism (fundamentalism)
Arianism: Jesus was not divine, condemned at the first apostolic council of Nicea with the trinity defined!
iconoclasts: opposed the use of images and icons, they were condemned at the second apostolic council of Nicea!
Montanism: basically a early Pentecostal movement!

Middle Ages:
albigensians: duelist sin of Manichaeism
god of good (spiritual or light) and a god of evil. (matter or darkness)

Early Protestant rebellion:
Wycliffe: predestination and the Bible alone.
hus: opposed the papacy, Bible only authority.

Protestant revolt:
Luther:
waldensians:
Huguenots:
Tyndall:
calvin:
Henry 8 and Cranmer the anglicans:
All evangelicals, Pentecostals and fundamentalists:

Protestant theology, five Solas, opposes the church founded by christ on Peter and started their own churches opposed each other in authority, some more fundamentalist. Condemned at the great apostolic council of Trent!

All heretics teaching false doctrines claiming biblical authority by the power of the Holy Spirit!

The rebellious slavery of Heretical fundamentalism begets only a thick black Spiritual Darkness! With spiritual pride, presumption, and arrogance!

 

[theefaith]

And the top authority is the scriptures.

Period.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Scripture is for DOCTRINE, for reproof of WRONG DOCTRINE, for CORRECTION of false doctrine. and for INSTRUCTION of salvational doctrine.

Individual believers are ordered to study and rightfully discern what they have to say:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Notice it doesn’t say to study the catechism, or study oral tradition, but to study only the scriptures- they have the final authority.

In fact the Bereans are called noble for not accepting the teaching of Paul the apostle, until they searched the SCRIPTURES to see IF IT BE SO.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The top is Christ!
Matt28:18-20

the church existed before the New Testament
The church wrote the New Testament
The church cannonized the whole bible and declares that which is scripture and that which is not scripture
The church alone has authority to interpret the scripture
The church is necessary for salvation