Rapper DMX dies of alleged overdose; claims Jesus was his Savior

[Ronald Nolette]

The Scriptures answer the question.

Numbers 15
27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Well go live your sinless life with everyone else who don't sin anymore- have fun being all alone on earth.

 

[Wrangler]

So, if I obey all of God's commands - I can be saved?

How is that *not* works salvation?

Getting. Keeping. Not equal.

You are not saved by works. But you can lose flavor. Matthew 7:21 says there is a condition to those who go to heaven. That condition is work, actually doing the will of the Father.

 

[PeterJames0510]

It is my characterization. You explained and I agreed to your use of the terms trusting and turning.

If these actions were not prerequisites then universalism is correct doctrine, since it is the will of the Father than we be saved. The Bible foolishly says all who BELIEVE will be saved? Why is this work, this action acceptable work but not given credit for the work that it is?

Stopping to believe in yourself is not an acceptable meritorious act to God. They cannot save.

The only thing that can save is our belief on Christ for eternal life.

Your 'action' is still not a meritorious work.

 

[PeterJames0510]

Getting. Keeping. Not equal.

You are not saved by works. But you can lose flavor. Matthew 7:21 says there is a condition to those who go to heaven. That condition is work, actually doing the will of the Father.

Okay, so we clarified it. You believe good works *maintains* salvation ...

That there is WORKS my friend.

 

[Wrangler]

Your 'action' is still not a meritorious work.

Never said it was. OSAS forever appeal to straw man in their arguments and assertions. You never answered the question 07-07-07 asked; do you think you can sin your way to heaven?

 

[PeterJames0510]

Never said it was. OSAS forever appeal to straw man in their arguments and assertions. You never answered the question 07-07-07 asked; do you think you can sin your way to heaven?

I did answer that question. It's been twice, three times now, and you are the one that created a strawman by assuming I believe someone gets to heaven by sinning.

You must realize you are a sinner before salvation; you cannot stop sinning, but you do need to know you need a Savior. Once you have accepted Christ as Savior, you have eternal life. A done deal.

If a believer continues to sin after salvation, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. The reality of sanctification in a person's life *follows* salvation; it cannot be started before then.

 

[Wrangler]

Never said it was. OSAS forever appeal to straw man in their arguments and assertions. You never answered the question 07-07-07 asked; do you think you can sin your way to heaven?

I did answer that question. It's been twice, three times now, and you are the one that created a strawman by assuming I believe someone gets to heaven by sinning.

You must realize you are a sinner before salvation; you cannot stop sinning, but you do need to know you need a Savior. Once you have accepted Christ as Savior, you have eternal life. A done deal.

If a believer continues to sin after salvation, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. The reality of sanctification in a person's life *follows* salvation; it cannot be started before then.

You STILL have not answered the question. The answer is A or B.

A. One can sin their way to heaven.
B. Unrepentant sinners cannot go to heaven.​

 

[PeterJames0510]

You STILL have not answered the question. The answer is A or B.

A. One can sin their way to heaven.
B. Unrepentant sinners cannot go to heaven.​

Yes that is the problem with personality types such as yourself; you think you can pigeon hole everyone to YOUR way of thinking that it is either A or B.

Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a change of action; you change your mind about following yourself, you turn to Christ wholly and completely. Once done, you are in God's salvation and are now expected to live a life of holiness. There, letter C.

If you want to pat yourself on the back or virtue signal other Lordship Salvationists now on how someone refuses to be pigeonholed by your supposedly correct interpretation - be my guest.

 

[Jostler]

Paul tried tried so hard to get early believers to understand the difference between justification and sanctification. Justification comes as a GIFT from God....our destination after this life is established by that GIFT. ETERNAL LIFE, in Him comes through that gift and we cannot "hold" that gift by works....or it was never a gift to begin with. It would be a conditional "contract". AFTER God's gift to us is assured (by Jesus' blood alone, the process of sanctification can begin...and that is about works. Failure to submit ourselves to Christ and engage that process of allowing Him to progressively transform us into His image, does not cause Him to remove His gift from us. But the cost is high....and eternal. It results in arrival at the Judgement with no works that can be rewarded. You get "home" based on the gift, the condition we arrive on, is determined by works....and not OUR works....but His works done through us.

There is a tremendous need for modern believers to understand the difference between salvation and eternal judgements.

Getting. Keeping. Not equal.

You are not saved by works. But you can lose flavor. Matthew 7:21 says there is a condition to those who go to heaven. That condition is work, actually doing the will of the Father.

What did Paul mean by this?

Galatians 3:3 NKJV — Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Wrangler]

Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a change of action; you change your mind about following yourself, you turn to Christ wholly and completely. Once done, you are in God's salvation and are now expected to live a life of holiness. There, letter C.

Calling it Option C (then not defining it) does not make it so. You cannot answer the question of sinning ones way to heaven. HINT: Repenting is an action needed on your part.

There is no "once saved always saved" in the Bible. There is "Work out your own salvation" in the Bible. You receive salvation though grace but you have to work it out, you are not saved yet until you actually pass the judgement after you die. Until there you can mess up big, even with grace in you. So big you go hell.

 

[Wrangler]

What did Paul mean by this?

Galatians 3:3 NKJV

First, let me reference a 21st century translation. From the VOICE
Are you so foolish? Do you think you can perfect something God’s Spirit started with any human effort?

Notice the starting and perfecting aspect to the question? No one is saying anything going against Galatians 3:3. No one is talking about perfecting or starting. How do you reconcile Matthew 7:21 to OSAS?

Turn around is fair play. What did Paul mean by

Romans 6:12 The Voice
12 Don’t invite that insufferable tyrant of sin back into your mortal body so you won’t become obedient to its destructive desires.

Why would Paul tell us to do that if we could not still do it? I trust you realize sin = separation from God = death

 

[Wrangler]

justification and sanctification. Justification comes as a GIFT from God....our destination after this life is established by that GIFT.

We are not talking about sanctification. Changing the term of the discussion from OSAS to Justification shows that you have lost the argument. Gifts must be accepted and received.

This constitutes action on our part. The contradiction of OSAS is revealed. That is why I differentiate between external works, as the Bible uses that term, from internal work, as our culture uses that term. Otherwise universalism is correct doctrine. Is universalism correct doctrine?

 

[07-07-07]

I did answer that question. [Despite the fact that I do disappear, I have not left the room yet.] Until you learn you are a sinner, you can't be saved ... but stopping sin is not something a sinner can do. That is only something God can do for believers.

Are you suggesting that some saved people can continue in sin and inherit the Kingdom of God?

 

[07-07-07]

Well go live your sinless life with everyone else who don't sin anymore- have fun being all alone on earth.

Jesus came to call sinners to repentance. Reviling God’s Word will get you no where.

 

[07-07-07]

So, if I obey all of God's commands - I can be saved?

How is that *not* works salvation?

Jesus said:


John 14

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

[Jostler]

I'm sorry brother but we are talking about sanctification. There are a number of foundational doctrines outlined in Hebrews 6:1-3, that explain why salvation and sanctification are closely related but utterly different. One of those is "eternal judgements.
I suspect that those who adhere to a works based salvation feel it would be unjust if someone gives their whole life to serving Christ, gets the same treatment as someone who takes Jesus for "hell insurance " and never chooses to serve Him. It feels unjust because it would be unjust, if it were true....but it isn't....God is JUST...in extremis.
Let me point you toward a very difficult passage...it worked my theology over badly when I first discovered it. A sacred cow of mine had to die before I could understand it.

Revelation 22:14-15 NKJV — Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

What are people described as sorcerers, murderers and liars doing in the presence of the New Jerusalem at all? At this point, the Judgement has already happened....we have a new heaven and earth....how is it people identified with these sins are even present at this point at all? Answer that question and your understanding of the difference between justification and sanctification will be transformed.

 

[07-07-07]

I'm sorry brother but we are talking about sanctification. There are a number of foundational doctrines outlined in Hebrews 6:1-3, that explain why salvation and sanctification are closely related but utterly different. One of those is "eternal judgements.
I suspect that those who adhere to a works based salvation feel it would be unjust if someone gives their whole life to serving Christ, gets the same treatment as someone who takes Jesus for "hell insurance " and never chooses to serve Him. It feels unjust because it would be unjust, if it were true....but it isn't....God is JUST...in extremis.
Let me point you toward a very difficult passage...it worked my theology over badly when I first discovered it. A sacred cow of mine had to die before I could understand it.

Revelation 22:14-15 NKJV — Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

What are people described as sorcerers, murderers and liars doing in the presence of the New Jerusalem at all? At this point, the Judgement has already happened....we have a new heaven and earth....how is it people identified with these sins are even present at this point at all? Answer that question and your understanding of the difference between justification and sanctification will be transformed.

Are you suggesting that a person can refuse sanctification and still inherit eternal life?

 

[Jostler]

Are you suggesting that a person can refuse sanctification and
still inherit eternal life?

Yes

 

[Jostler]

do you understand the difference between inheriting eternal life and inheriting the Kingdom? They are not the same things.

 

[PeterJames0510]

Jesus said:


John 14

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Ahh, so who is the one avoiding a direct question now?

Again, the question was "So, if I obey all of God's commands - I can be saved? How is that *not* works salvation?"

Quoting a section on John 14 about 'abiding' in Him (sanctification) and loving him (sanctification) does not now mean Jesus teaches a works gospel. Do you believe that Jesus teaches we have to do *something* in order to be saved and/or keep eternal life (as if humans could *keep* it)?