Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

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Enoch111

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True--but God was very reluctant to agree to the Israelites having a King in the first place. He warned them what a King would do to them.
Yes. That is what this means: "I gave thee a king in mine anger". God had no plans to give Israel human kings. He would be their King. But they made an evil clamor for a king, and paid a steep price. As did Saul in his disobedience.

Getting back to the topic of the Rapture, it is very clear that way too many Christians don't really study their Bibles, since the easy way out is to simply believe all the nonsense about McDonald, and Darby, Scofield, etc. being the "inventors" of the Pre-tribulation Rapture. That is so pathetic, since every Christian should be rejoicing in this "Blessed Hope".
 
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Keraz

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I think that if you will read the Revelation chapter 7 passage carefully, you will see that the people you are speaking of are in heaven and they did NOT survive the great tribulation.
Reading the whole Chapter carefully, will confirm to anyone without an extreme bias in favor of a 'rapture', that no one was killed and nowhere is heaven mentioned.
Revelation 7 happens immediately after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, which is; great tribulation, or as my Bible says: great ordeal. {no; 'the' preceding it] The vast multitude of people waving palm branches, are all the Faithful Christians who stood firm in their faith for the Lord's protection, during the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. They are in the holy Land, in our own country: the nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5
 

n2thelight

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The pretrib answer to this is that those elect are they that converted to Christianity after the rapture. The remaining ones who realize the truth of Christ.

Can't be,the Elect are special as in they were chosen from the foundation of the world,in other words they don't have free will as they have already been judged

Example,why would one need to be sealed,if they not gonna be here?They were servants before the tribulation,ie,the time when satan is on this earth

Revelation 7:3 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

Did the above say until they become servants?,NO!!!These are those whom will get God's people out of Babylon(confusion)before the true Christ returns

Now,back to the elect that were already chosen

Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

What does it mean to be "chosen"?

It means that there are certain people that God chosen in the first earth age, to do a task for Him in this flesh earth age. This is not reincarnation, for it is appointed for each of us to go through this earth age, the flesh earth age, once and only once. We read; "...It is appointed unto men once to die [in the flesh], but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27 This appointing and choosing took place before the foundation of this earth age; the second earth age [cosmos] that we now live in.

"Without blame" refers to the fact that God intercedes in certain peoples lives. Certain people have free will, while certain others are of God's election, however, God doesn't play favorites. Christ died for the sins of all who will repent; the chosen, and the free-will. All must repent for sins they commit, and love the Lord Jesus Christ, to have the hope of His glory.

"Before the foundation of the world", [cosmos in the Greek, meaning world or earth age.] The "foundation" in the Greek text, is the verb for, "the overthrow". This refers to something that happened in that first earth age, before the overthrow of Satan and his angels that followed him. When Satan fell [war against God], one third of all angelic beings [God's children] followed Satan. Then during that war, there were some who fought against Satan, and those who did, God calls "His Chosen". They took a stand, and were overcomers in that first earth age.

Why would God intercede in a person's life, without them even asking? When your free-will goes against God's purpose for your life, God will intercede. When Paul's "free will" was to destroy all Christians, God's will was to take this highly educated man, and use Paul as the instrument for Him. Paul used to same drive to destroy Christians, that he used later to convert people, after his conversion.

We read that the Lord said; "...For He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and Kings, and children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"

"Predestined" means "from a prior time", or "required to do a certain thing" in the Greek text. You have a choice of loving God, or loving Satan. God will not interfere with your free will choice to chose Him or Satan. However, that person that proved himself during the overthrow of Satan, were "justified", or earned the right to be called "saints", from that first earth age.

Each soul comes from God, and enters an embryo at conception. This is why Jeremiah was a chosen one. "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet of nations." Jeremiah 1:5

"Sanctified" thee, is to "set aside, or apart for a purpose". Sins still have to be repented, and the price to pay for them still had to be made. To the predestined, and fore chosen, God can make life so miserable to those out of His will that they will repent. God has a perfect will, and God is always fair.

"And we know that all things work together for good, to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 This verse is directed to a certain people, with a condition attached. This applies to "them who are called according to His purpose." "His purpose" is called God's plan, and God's overall plan is the offering of Salvation to all. That plan includes the teaching of God's Word; to plant seeds to convict; to live our life for Him; and to go and speak where God leads you. God will use you as it pleases Him.

"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29 God knew you, and what you were in that first earth age; and then [in that first earth age] God prearranged our destiny for this age. That destiny is to make us conform, or be like His Son, Jesus Christ. Though Jesus is the first fruits to overcome death, there are many that have that victory over death, through Christ's death and resurrection.

"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called: He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified." Romans 8:30 "Justified" means "judged" in the Greek text; God judged them there in that first earth age, and that is why God can and does intercede in the chosen's ones lives. The justified are the priests of the Zadok in the millennium age of Ezekiel 40, for the word Zadok comes from the Hebrew word meaning "the just".
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Trying to understand. Dave l has asked numerous times and has yet to receive an answer. What is Isreal grafted back in to

God's Tree of Life eternal. The Tree of Life will return in the Eternal State--it will bear 12 crops of fruit per year. Eternal life will join the physical with the spiritual. They are, of course, separate now because of the curse of death judgment that God pronounced on our progenitors, Adam and Eve. It was actually a mercy. To live eternally in a state of sin would be equivalent to hell.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Can't be,the Elect are special as in they were chosen from the foundation of the world,in other words they don't have free will as they have already been judged

Example,why would one need to be sealed,if they not gonna be here?They were servants before the tribulation,ie,the time when satan is on this earth

Revelation 7:3 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

Did the above say until they become servants?,NO!!!These are those whom will get God's people out of Babylon(confusion)before the true Christ returns

Now,back to the elect that were already chosen

Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

What does it mean to be "chosen"?

It means that there are certain people that God chosen in the first earth age, to do a task for Him in this flesh earth age. This is not reincarnation, for it is appointed for each of us to go through this earth age, the flesh earth age, once and only once. We read; "...It is appointed unto men once to die [in the flesh], but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27 This appointing and choosing took place before the foundation of this earth age; the second earth age [cosmos] that we now live in.

"Without blame" refers to the fact that God intercedes in certain peoples lives. Certain people have free will, while certain others are of God's election, however, God doesn't play favorites. Christ died for the sins of all who will repent; the chosen, and the free-will. All must repent for sins they commit, and love the Lord Jesus Christ, to have the hope of His glory.

"Before the foundation of the world", [cosmos in the Greek, meaning world or earth age.] The "foundation" in the Greek text, is the verb for, "the overthrow". This refers to something that happened in that first earth age, before the overthrow of Satan and his angels that followed him. When Satan fell [war against God], one third of all angelic beings [God's children] followed Satan. Then during that war, there were some who fought against Satan, and those who did, God calls "His Chosen". They took a stand, and were overcomers in that first earth age.

Why would God intercede in a person's life, without them even asking? When your free-will goes against God's purpose for your life, God will intercede. When Paul's "free will" was to destroy all Christians, God's will was to take this highly educated man, and use Paul as the instrument for Him. Paul used to same drive to destroy Christians, that he used later to convert people, after his conversion.

We read that the Lord said; "...For He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and Kings, and children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"

"Predestined" means "from a prior time", or "required to do a certain thing" in the Greek text. You have a choice of loving God, or loving Satan. God will not interfere with your free will choice to chose Him or Satan. However, that person that proved himself during the overthrow of Satan, were "justified", or earned the right to be called "saints", from that first earth age.

Each soul comes from God, and enters an embryo at conception. This is why Jeremiah was a chosen one. "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet of nations." Jeremiah 1:5

"Sanctified" thee, is to "set aside, or apart for a purpose". Sins still have to be repented, and the price to pay for them still had to be made. To the predestined, and fore chosen, God can make life so miserable to those out of His will that they will repent. God has a perfect will, and God is always fair.

"And we know that all things work together for good, to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 This verse is directed to a certain people, with a condition attached. This applies to "them who are called according to His purpose." "His purpose" is called God's plan, and God's overall plan is the offering of Salvation to all. That plan includes the teaching of God's Word; to plant seeds to convict; to live our life for Him; and to go and speak where God leads you. God will use you as it pleases Him.

"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29 God knew you, and what you were in that first earth age; and then [in that first earth age] God prearranged our destiny for this age. That destiny is to make us conform, or be like His Son, Jesus Christ. Though Jesus is the first fruits to overcome death, there are many that have that victory over death, through Christ's death and resurrection.

"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called: He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified." Romans 8:30 "Justified" means "judged" in the Greek text; God judged them there in that first earth age, and that is why God can and does intercede in the chosen's ones lives. The justified are the priests of the Zadok in the millennium age of Ezekiel 40, for the word Zadok comes from the Hebrew word meaning "the just".

You forget that there is another people group who are "elect" (i.e. chosen) and that is Israel. Paul told us in Romans 11:26 that, eventually, "all Israel will be saved." God has dealt with the Church and Israel in two distinct ways.
 

bbyrd009

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I like to think that my opinions are based in Scripture. What is the foundation for your opinions?
I try not to have any tbh

No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it

speaks for itself I think?
There is only One Immortal,

but I wish you the best of luck regardless ok
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Eternal does not mean forever LC


I disagree. "Forever" does not mean eternal--it just means for a very long time. My friend who is a Hebrew scholar told me that. On the other hand, "everlasting" is applied to God, as well as "eternal". Since we are told in Scripture that God alone cannot die, eternal must mean...er, well, eternal.
 

bbyrd009

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I disagree. "Forever" does not mean eternal--it just means for a very long time. My friend who is a Hebrew scholar told me that. On the other hand, "everlasting" is applied to God, as well as "eternal". Since we are told in Scripture that God alone cannot die, eternal must mean...er, well, eternal.
that would be Immortal LC, not eternal
 

Lady Crosstalk

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I try not to have any tbh

No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it

speaks for itself I think?


Doesn't mean that no one ever will. Christian scholars take that to mean that Paradise and Heaven (where God Almighty "dwells in unapproachable light") are two separate places--with Paradise being a bit lower. They feel that Jesus took away the veil of separation between us and the Father and that He took the souls in Paradise to heaven with Him when He rose to the Father after the Resurrection. Remember that Jesus also said that no one has ever seen the Father but Himself. Makes sense of the hiding of Moses from seeing God by God Himself. It is an ancient Hebrew belief that no mortal human could see God's face and live.