Real Faith

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Kidron

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Jun 27, 2012
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Saint, we live in the physical realm in a mortal body that is going to die unless Jesus comes back to get us before our death.
And every healing of our body is a temporary fix, ...every healing miracle that Jesus ever created in the New Testament was a temporary fix, as the person he healed eventually died.
Jesus raised a lot of people from the dead and later they died, again.
Jesus healed lots of people....the bible says the world could not contain all the books John 21:25 if every miracle of Jesus was described and sited....and every one of those who were healed, eventually died.
This is because all healing miracles are temporary, and only last as long as the body lives.

Salvation of the soul,...being born again is the only miracle that does not end when you die.

So, if you have been paying attention to my Threads and my responses then by now you should have become very familiar with the truth that says you as a born again Son of God have divine rights and divine status in the family of God.
You have a royal position in God's family that is created by born again birthright which gives you the same authority as Jesus has, as you are become a Son of God just like he is a Son of God.
You have, just as Christ has... full access to all that God has, all that God is, and all that God can do....right now.
Thats your legal covenant right based on you being born again.
Thats your position in God's family, as you are an "heir of God", and a Son of God.
With this position of status comes the authority you have been given by God...as Christ in you is the very power of God on tap.

And God's power is your power.., as God's power is in you, because He is in you.
"Christ in you, the hope of glory"....Colossians 1:27
You are in Christ, Christ is in you, and God is in all.
We are one....John 17:20,21
We are one in righteousness with God, we are one in power with God, we are one in authority with Christ.
When God sees you, he sees you as HE sees you, and you have to begin to understand how he sees you.
Saint, he no longer sees you as lowly- lost- powerless -sinner -filthy rag-nothing.
He now sees you as his righteousness and as his heir and as his Child.

Now what does God have?
He has control......He controls it all.
He has ownership....He owns it all.
He has authority....Authority over it all.
The winter becomes the spring because God controls it.
The waves stop at the beach and roll back into the ocean, because God controls it.
Stars wink at you from the sky at 1am because God hung them there to shine like electric diamonds in the night.
The sun is just far enough away not to cook us and just close enough so that its rays make everything green and warm, because he controls it.
You dont fly off a spinning earth-globe because God controls it.
Satan cant kill us all asap, because God controls it.
You are reading this because God gave you breath and another day to read and grasp the light im giving you, because God controls it.
And this control, God's supernatural authority to run the natural world he created through the Word, is the same supernatural power that is in Christ that is in you.
Its IN you.

Your bible tells you that Christ is the head of all things and that by him all things were made......Colossians 1:16-18
And this maker of all things is IN YOU., and you are "IN Christ".
You bible tells you that he was in the world and the world was made by him.
John 1:10
This same Word made flesh, this same Lord Jesus Christ, this same maker of all things, is the same Jesus who lives in you.
His power is your power.
His glory is your glory.
His ability to do all things, is your ability to "do all things through Christ"....Philippians 4:13.

Jesus told you that he is the vine and you are the branches...John 15:5...and you can do nothing without his power.
That is to say, in your own ability, you can do nothing in the spiritual realm to create a change in the earthly realm.
This is because the miracle working power is HIS power, and we access it, because it lives in us and we live and have our being "in Christ" who is in God.
Remember that Paul said, "it is not i that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me"....Galatians 2:20
That is your identity.
That is who you truly are right now.
You are not who you were before you were born again.
You are now become the property of Christ the redeemer, and you are bought with a bloody price, 1st Corinthians 6:20 and this eternal purchase of your soul and body, has recreated and restored you anew as a brand new spiritual being, a new creature, "in Christ"....2nd Corinthinans 5:17.
Now get that.
Grab that and meditate on this truth.
And this is why the bible tells you to renew your mind.
Its because when you take the Word of God and feed yourself its truth and revelation, then your mind is reshaped by the power of the Word to match your status as a new spiritual being "in Christ.
And right here is the disconnect that so many have, regarding understanding their true status and authority as a new spiritual being "in Christ" that God has recreated them to be... and how they see themselves.
And once you are able to reconnect yourself to the reality of God's viewpoint of your status, then everything changes in your Christian life from that moment.
It can never be the same, as it will escape the carnal viewpoint of your understanding and will elevate to the actual and true understanding that you must see yourself as God sees you.
This is a revelation of Light, and you need to grab it and hold it and meditate on it until it is affirmed in your heart and mind so that you never again lose sight of who you really have become in God's family.
Get this revelation, accept your position of legal authority in God's family and allow it to recreate your entire comprehension of who you are in Christ in God.
Renew your mind with the Word so that your mind becomes like the Word.
Saint....this revelation of who you are, as God birthed you to be, will change your world into his world..

Listen, the most important revelation you will even engage, other then your need for Christ's atonement, is the understanding of who you are in Christ as GOD has designed you to be and as he now sees you.
You are a Royal Priesthood family member with CHRIST's AUTHORITY...1st Peter 2:9
The reason this is vital for you to believe.....is because its true....and its from this foundation of revelation truth that your entire ability to serve him ends and Christ's ability to serve him through you begins.
Now get that.

Listen closely..
We as believers are born again into the spiritual realm where God exists and lives.
Remember that ...God is A Spirit".....he's not just spirit and hes not just any spirit.
He is ">A< Spirit", and that means a specific type, and the type is "Holy", and the nature is "Father".
We have been translated into his Kingdom of Light, and God lives inside holy convicting light that no man can approach.....1st Timothy 6:16.,.. yet we are seated next to God with Jesus, right now, Ephesians 2:6 in God's light, and that is because we are his remade, restored, redeemed, "Children of Light"...1st Thessalonians 5:5 .
And Jesus is the Word and the Light made flesh ....John 1:8,14.
And we are altogether "ONE"..John 17:21
This holy kingdom of Light, this Kingdom of Christ, lives in us and it has within itself the power to change our natural realm of circumstances.
That is the idea.
Thats the work of God, and thats our work on his behalf using his power that is our power, that is in us.
You have divine and direct access to the realm of God's existence, that is to say, his power and his authority to work supernaturally in the earth realm because you are a LEGAL BIRTHRIGHT POSITIONED Son of God and an heir of God.

See, Jesus was on earth in the natural realm as a man, but he was divine as God in the flesh and this is why he could do miracles.
And now, this innate divinity is born again seeded within you., and that is why you are able to do the same works as Jesus.
Once you understand this and can accept it and believe it, you can then begin to use what God has designed you to use and become who he planned for all of us to become......= just like Christ.
See, we are not just to be conformed to his nature, we are to be conformed to his authority to use his supernatural power in the natural realm.
We are to use the power of heaven that is within us on earth just as Christ did.
That is your "conformed to his image", that is your ministry.....that is your life that has been redeemed for this very purpose.
You have the power to do the supernatural because the supernatural realm of God lives within you right now.

Now, what is "Real Faith"...?

All real faith is, is the ability of a Son of God to tap into the divine power of his Father God that is already THERE IN YOU...
And the way you do this, the way you use your faith as a force of God's supernatural power, is to come to the knowledge of why your faith has to work when you believe.
Faith has to work because of who you are "In Christ".
Its your right to have your prayers answered because this is the right of a Son of God to expect his Father to hear and answer.
God the Father, set up the faith system to work, based on you realizing that it has to because of who you are related to who he is, and he is your Father and you are his child.
Its a love connection between a Father and a child that is the eternal cord of answered prayer.
God is love and he loves you and he has adopted you and as a family member you have the right of an "heir" to access all God has, all God is, and all that God can do, by legal right.........and prayer's being answered is your right as a family member.

Christ cannot fail, and God cannot fail, and faith that is real, is simply the understanding of why Faith has to work., and it works because it cant fail if you believe you are involving God who cant fail on behalf of a child he died to adopt.
Do u think he would die for you and then refuse to answer your prayers?
Do u think he would establish you as a legal member of his family and then deny your rights as a Son of God?
Its impossible.

Listen, how can faith fail if God is in you and its his power that faith releases?
Can God fail?, then neither can faith, because all faith is, is the release of God's supernatural power that is in you, to change and correct a circumstance in the natural on your behalf because you are his child with rights in his Kingdom family.
Faith always overrides and masters the natural circumstance because the power of God that faith releases is...Supernatural.

And you say...
Ok, i understand that, but how do I tap into it and use it as Christ did.
Simple.
U understand who you are according to God and from this understanding of your status, you recognize that its your right to have your prayers answered by a God who cant fail his child, ever..
This is explained in Jude 1:20, when he tells you to "build up YOURSELF in your most holy faith", which means that you understand who you are as God sees you and that is in context of "renewing your mind in Romans 12:2 so that your mind understands your position as a Son of God as God has positioned you to be "in Christ"..
Saint, your "real faith" will become real faith as soon as you are able to recognize in your heart and your spiritual understanding your position in God's family.
This transforming revelation will cause your prayer of faith to be generated and empowered by the true knowledge of your authentic legal status in God's family to have it answered... Whereas before this revelation... your prayers were not answered because you were basing you hope for their answer on your feelings and on your behavior which always cause you to doubt.
And real faith begins and doubt ends as just as soon as you see yourself as God sees you in his family = the Royal Priesthood with heavenly rights.
Thats you., as God sees you.





K
 

dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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Hi Kidron,

I was agreeing with your post until I got to here:

All real faith is, is the ability of a Son of God to tap into the divine power of his Father God that is already THERE IN YOU...
And the way you do this, the way you use your faith as a force of God's supernatural power, is to come to the knowledge of why your faith has to work when you believe.
Faith has to work because of who you are "In Christ".
Its your right to have your prayers answered because this is the right of a Son of God to expect his Father to hear and answer.



It is difficult to find scriptural support for it being our faith, rather than His, although I know we are told to believe. But belief is not something we make up to suit ourselves. It is a response to what God has said to us. I would not claim it's my right to have a prayer answered.

I believe Jesus taught that we can be sure He will answer what we pray according to His will - and that means knowing Him, listening to Him, discerning His voice and His word to us, and then turning it into prayer, believing that His faith can accomplish it. Mark 11:22
 

Kidron

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Jun 27, 2012
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Hi Kidron,

I was agreeing with your post until I got to here:

[/font][/size]


It is difficult to find scriptural support for it being our faith, rather than His, although I know we are told to believe. But belief is not something we make up to suit ourselves. It is a response to what God has said to us. I would not claim it's my right to have a prayer answered.

I believe Jesus taught that we can be sure He will answer what we pray according to His will - and that means knowing Him, listening to Him, discerning His voice and His word to us, and then turning it into prayer, believing that His faith can accomplish it. Mark 11:22
Hi Kidron,

I was agreeing with your post until I got to here:

[/font][/size]


It is difficult to find scriptural support for it being our faith, rather than His, although I know we are told to believe. But belief is not something we make up to suit ourselves. It is a response to what God has said to us. I would not claim it's my right to have a prayer answered.

I believe Jesus taught that we can be sure He will answer what we pray according to His will - and that means knowing Him, listening to Him, discerning His voice and His word to us, and then turning it into prayer, believing that His faith can accomplish it. Mark 11:22


Thanx for reading, and I think you misunderstood what i said...
This is perhaps because of the way i worded my sentence that you misunderstood. :mellow:
Dfly, I apologize for the late response.
Im on a lot of forums answering questions, teaching, etc....so, this keeps me well behind regarding responses...
I will try to do better regarding this forum
.
When i said that the "power is there for us to tap into"...etc..
I think, Dfly, you read this to mean........."the faith is there for us to tap into".
However, thats not what i meant.........i meant........that the "power"....... that is to say the ability of the divine ""power"""" of God to solve the crisis that IS the answer to our prayers, is accessed by our faith.

Do you see?

I was not saying that "faith" is already in us........but rather the "power" of Christ to supernaturally rearrange a circumstance from bad to good, from wrong to right.......THIS "power" is in Christ, and he is IN US.......so, the "power" for the answer is there, but its our FAITH that activates this "power".... that is CHRIST's power who is IN us.
Christ is the healing power, and he is already in us, so all thats left is for us to activate it.
Christ's power...is our power, and its on tap.
The power is there, because Christ is there....the problem is accessing it.........and the solution comes when a person realizes why they have a right for their prayers to be answered.
= this generates FAITH<.

See, Christians, in general, no matter how much they screech about "faith in Christ"...........when it comes to having any faith, they dont have any, and its because they have a very hard time seeing themselves correctly, as related to their born again birthright position in God's Kingdom family.
A Christian will land in a crisis and then instead of realizing that God is there to help them based on how he has positioned them to be helped, that is to say, legal rights of a family member to access all that God has, all that God is, and all that God can do..............the Christian will instead mentally run back under the law in the time of crisis and become a sort of Faith LAME........"well, i know i have not been that good for a while, i know i have not been reading my bible,......i know i have not been doing enough WORKS", but i hope that God will help me out of this mess, anyway...oh plz, plz, PLEASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSE.
So, do you see that mess....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Christian will believe they are saved for FREE, but they think they cant get any help from God unless they are perfect.
Welcome to the way to never have a prayer answered 101.

God does not answer prayers because of your behavior any more then he saved you because of your behavior.
He answers prayers and saves a person based on ........................FAITH.
So the way you get your prayer answered is to have "real faith".
See my Thread... :mellow:


be blessed,






K
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
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Hi Kidron,

Take your time over answers. I only wrote mine yesterday.

I fully appreciate what you're saying about a person's position in the family of God, and his/her access to the power of God by that relationship.

See, Christians, in general, no matter how much they screech about "faith in Christ"...........when it comes to having any faith, they dont have any, and its because they have a very hard time seeing themselves correctly, as related to their born again birthright position in God's Kingdom family.

However, I still think the logic you are offering is not the logic in scripture.

The Lord Jesus did nothing unless it had been directed by His Father, even though as He throws in after His arrest, that He could ask, and would receive what He asked for (which He mentions when He's praying for Lazarus to be raised from the dead). We have to assume He didn't go and visit Lazarus to heal him while he was still alive, because His Father did not direct it - just as His Father had not directed Him to heal the man at the Gate Beautiful of the Temple, but Peter and John were.

I'm saying two things. First, we have to know we are praying according to God's will. Second, it's not our faith.

In that sense, it's not 'our' power, either, and even as sons, we must remain totally dependent on God for our leading in every situation.


This is what it takes to walk in the Spirit.
 

lawrance

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Mar 30, 2011
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Faith ? People have faith in the Buddha don't they and that is real faith to them i would think.
Faith is the substance of ? is it not.
Show me christian faith without the works (in Christ ? ) Christ said you will know them by their works, who are not his.
Do some want to be in the right or maybe think being on the left is fine.
Satan knows the Bible better than anyone and just sits back happy to see one fall for their complacent sinful nature of weakness to think they are home and saved, riding on a wave to glory in ignorance. happily guiding others down the garden path and this lot get so angry running about ranting and raving like a mad man saying it's faith alone !!!!!!!!
Jesus never said anything about faith alone, but he could of said it now couldn't he, but he did not, now did he !
 

Foreigner

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Jesus never said anything about faith alone, but he could of said it now couldn't he, but he did not, now did he !

-- Rosey, you really need to relax. Eat some fruit or something.
The people before you were having a reasonable discussion. Why not give it a try?
 

neophyte

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-- Rosey, you really need to relax. Eat some fruit or something.
The people before you were having a reasonable discussion. Why not give it a try?

Mr. Rosenberger is 100% correct. Some of you people really do hate the truth
.To be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ [St.Jerome]
 

Foreigner

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What you say is accurate.
But you do get people to take your correction a little better if you don't deliver it in a belittling, condescending manner.
A post lacking all possible civility is not going to get many people to take you seriously.
If all he is concerned about is being right, then it's a great post.
If he actually wants to discuss and perhaps sway some opinions, that certainly isn't the way to do it.




.
 

Kidron

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Jun 27, 2012
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However, I still think the logic you are offering is not the logic in scripture.

Regarding my thread.....Im giving you the logic of the scriptures..
See, Faith is not a definition, its a real and living activation of the system of God that he designed.
Everything God designed is a faith based system.
You are "saved by faith",... "you cannot please God unless its by faith", and you cannot release the power of Christ that is in you to do the will of God, unless you do so by faith
This is the "logic" of the scriptures related to how we are to operate within the Kingdom of God system by faith.

The Lord Jesus did nothing unless it had been directed by His Father,

And you have been given directions by your Father according to your bible.

You, Dfly, are to lay hands on the sick, you are to "pray for each other", you are to "go into all the world and share the gospel", you are to "present your bodies a living sacrifice" you are to "study to show yourself approved unto God"....you are to "give and it shall be given"...you are to "reckon yourself dead to sin and alive to God through Christ".................and on and on.......................is the will of GOD told to you in the New Testament.
Here is something you need to grab...:..Dfly.
Jesus didnt have a New Testament, he only had an inner witness of the Holy Spirit.
Later we have the New Testament which is him, and it is our rule book, guide book, divine love letter, light for life, and lifeline.
We have the Holy Spirit and a New Testament which was written by the HS and dictated by men.
And in this bible you are given a lot of things to DO, that are the written WILL of God,
So, you dont have to sit there in a dark closet with your eyes closed waiting for the will of God to descend upon you like a Dove.
All you have to do is DO what the New Testament says to DO and you are doing the will of God.
Follow me?
Are you following my "logic" ;)



I'm saying two things. First, we have to know we are praying according to God's will. Second, it's not our faith.

And yes it is your faith.
It is YOUR faith that acquires salvation.........not Gods, YOURS.
It is YOU that has to believe, not anyone else for you.
And it is YOU that your bible says has to have "FAITH", for without IT, you cannot please God.
So, that is YOU and YOUR faith that has to be in operation in the ER when someone you love is dying
God is going to move or NOT based on someone's FAITH, or he is not going to move.
Wherever you are, there is Christ in YOU, so the power to help, heal, and solve, is right there also..
And its activated by Faith, as this is the system that God designed.
Its a faith based system.


n that sense, it's not 'our' power, either, and even as sons, we must remain totally dependent on God for our leading in every situation.


No, it IS our power, as we are joint heirs with God and Christ who are the POWER, and we are one Spirit with them, and bone of Christ's bones and flesh of his flesh.
You are IN CHRIST, and he is IN YOU.
You are DEAD and have been raised up in newness of life IN CHRIST....(Romans 6)
So, the power of God, IS the power of CHRIST who is IN YOU.....and this power is YOURS by faith.
Its your faith that activates this power of God to heal to deliver to bless and to direct.
All of God is IN YOU, but your FAITH is the switch that releases the power.


This is what it takes to walk in the Spirit.


Walking in the Spirit is to have the Spirit of Christ within you,,
"but you are not in the FLESH, but in the SPIRIT, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you......Now if you dont have the Spirit of Christ, you are none of His"...(Romans 8:9)

See, you are already "in the Spirit" because you are "IN CHRIST"...= in the Spirit.
But to walk in the Spirit, is a different idea.
To walk in the Spirit means to renew your mind and put on the mind of Christ....and to do the deeds that represent your position in Christ.
This is "discipleship" and is what YOU do, whereas "being" IN the Spirit is your position "in Christ" which is your "new creation" position , which is why Paul says...."if any man be IN CHRIST, he is a new creature".
God's plan of salvation that you received by faith put you "IN the Spirit" and this is different then walking in the Spirit.
Walking in the Spirit means to do the deeds that represent who you have become IN the Spirit.




K
.........................
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Actually we are saved by God's Grace so your thread is moot.
 

Kidron

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Jun 27, 2012
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Actually we are saved by God's Grace so your thread is moot.



Aspen,

The way to respond to a thread such as mine, is first to read it, (to get the context so that your response connects with the Thread's content).......and then search the scriptures ive given, then let the Holy Spirit confirm.
After that, put the revelation into practice.




K

Faith ? People have faith in the Buddha don't they and that is real faith to them i would think.
Faith is the substance of ? is it not.
Show me christian faith without the works (in Christ ? ) Christ said you will know them by their works, who are not his.
Do some want to be in the right or maybe think being on the left is fine.
Satan knows the Bible better than anyone and just sits back happy to see one fall for their complacent sinful nature of weakness to think they are home and saved, riding on a wave to glory in ignorance. happily guiding others down the garden path and this lot get so angry running about ranting and raving like a mad man saying it's faith alone !!!!!!!!
Jesus never said anything about faith alone, but he could of said it now couldn't he, but he did not, now did he !


This thread has nothing to do with being saved, or how to be saved, or anything like that at all.
You should actually read a Thread before you post your nonsense.



K

Mr. Rosenberger is 100% correct. Some of you people really do hate the truth
.To be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ [St.Jerome]


thanx for stopping by.
will you be responding to the Thread's topic soon, or will you just continue to have a Catholic tantronic meltdown along with Mr Rosenberg and the Queen of Heaven?.
Neophyte, you really should take a tip from Dragonfly and actually read a Thread's content and not just the Title before you fly apart.
It'll do you good.


K

What you say is accurate.
But you do get people to take your correction a little better if you don't deliver it in a belittling, condescending manner.
A post lacking all possible civility is not going to get many people to take you seriously.
If all he is concerned about is being right, then it's a great post.
If he actually wants to discuss and perhaps sway some opinions, that certainly isn't the way to do it.




.
.
goodness....
Stop worrying about my "tone" and just get the revelation.
Im only here to impart light and let you ither grow a little brighter or stay the same as you were.

And frankly, what you perceive as lacking in civility, is just me being direct.
Truth is like that, its naked and its direct.
No need to sugar coat it.


and just for you...

......[font=lucida sans unicode']truth and untruth went swimming in the lake.[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']while truth's back was turned, untruth stole truth's clothes.[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']now...[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']truth goes about as the naked truth while untruth parades about[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']in truth's clothes....[/font]



[font=lucida sans unicode']K[/font]
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Aspen,

The way to respond to a thread such as mine, is first to read it, (to get the context so that your response connects with the Thread's content).......and then search the scriptures ive given, then let the Holy Spirit confirm.
After that, put the revelation into practice.




K




This thread has nothing to do with being saved, or how to be saved, or anything like that at all.
You should actually read a Thread before you post your nonsense.



K




thanx for stopping by.
will you be responding to the Thread's topic soon, or will you just continue to have a Catholic tantronic meltdown along with Mr Rosenberg and the Queen of Heaven?.
Neophyte, you really should take a tip from Dragonfly and actually read a Thread's content and not just the Title before you fly apart.
It'll do you good.


K

WOW - oh the dripping honey sweet sarcasm - ah the arrogance of the self-assured - talk about cheerleading! Arrogance is just as ugly as any other sin, Kidron and based on your superior tone, you've got a raging case of it. I may look like a cheerleader for homosexuals to those who refuse to actually read my posts, but at least I do not practice it. Think about it, brother!
 

Kidron

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Jun 27, 2012
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WOW - oh the dripping honey sweet sarcasm - ah the arrogance of the self-assured - talk about cheerleading! Arrogance is just as ugly as any other sin, Kidron and based on your superior tone, you've got a raging case of it.


Sounds like you are judging me.
I forgive you. ;)


I may look like a cheerleader for homosexuals to those who refuse to actually read my posts, but at least I do not practice it. Think about it, brother!

Yes, you look like a cheerleader for the gay cause.........true.
And...
I read your post.
no worries.
I just didnt follow the set of posts you have been enjoying with rach.
but i read this one that you wrote...

Posted 11 June 2011 - 07:44 PM...Aspen writes...
Christ meets us where we are at. If homosexuals love God and obey His commandments - who knows what God will do? The fact is, there are much worse things a homosexual can engage in than a monogamous same-sex relationship.


So, this post, is the attempt of a tolerance junkie to avoid the bible and agree with the homosexual position, which is......."we are born this way".
So, my advice to you Aspen, is to put down the Lady GaGa theology and go with the written word regarding its viewpoint of homosexual sex acts.
(if you can).


K
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Sounds like you are judging me.
I forgive you. ;)

And that 'judging' is a one way street for you, right? Based on the content and tone of your posts, you have qualified yourself as the judge of everyone here - yet you are also ultra sensitive towards criticism of your own posts - how superior!

Yes, you look like a cheerleader for the gay cause.........true.
And...
I read your post.
no worries.
I just didnt follow the set of posts you have been enjoying with rach.
but i read this one that you wrote...

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Posted [/background][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]11 June 2011 - 07:44 PM...Aspen writes...[/background]
[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Christ meets us where we are at. If homosexuals love God and obey His commandments - who knows what God will do? The fact is, there are much worse things a homosexual can engage in than a monogamous same-sex relationship.[/background]


[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]So, this post, is the attempt of a tolerance junkie to avoid the bible and agree with the homosexual position, which is......."we are born this way".[/background]
[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]So, my advice to you Aspen, is to put down the Lady GaGa theology and go with the written word regarding its viewpoint of homosexual sex acts.[/background]
[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)](if you can).[/background]

Ok, I missed the part where I said "we are born this way". Of course, you are missing the real irony here, which is that Christians are so vehemently opposed to the idea that people can be born gay, yet preach that people are born into Original Sin - hmmm. In any case, I believe homosexuality is a sin - if you had really read my posts, there is no way you could have missed that point. My point was clear in the quote you provided - God meets us where we are at and brings us to a better place - churches should be hospitals for the sick, not havens for the self righteous, As far as Lady GaGa - I will leave her with you - I am not interested.

Peacemaker, tolerance junkie - call it what you will; Jesus called them blessed.
 

dragonfly

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Hi Kidron,

Thanks for your reply to me, I will get round to replying, after some preceding comments. The first of these is, please find the Bible verses which you use to assert that it is your faith which activates the power of God, separate from His specific leading (such as Jesus waited for, from His Father).

(I have taken on board the verses you've mentioned already, and will comment one or more of them, later.)


Did you note that Foreigner was first of all speaking to MR ROSENBERGER, and then to neophyte? If you did, you'd have understood his comments were not directed at you. He even mentions this obliquely. Please go back and read.

As for your reaction to aspen's comment, that was also out of line with the conversation which had begun on the back of MR ROSENBERGER's post.

Therefore, you really opened yourself up to some valid criticism from him. It would have been more constructive to challenge what he said, because it's not 'biblical', in a reasoned 'tone', than the one you chose.


To aspen, :)

Actually we are saved by God's Grace so your thread is moot.

Please could you share which Bible verses are you using to hold this view?

Many thanks.

Hi Kidron,

I'm back again. I've re-read your OP and your reply to me in post # 9, and I still disagree with your emphasis and 'logic'.

I fully agree that we are new creations in Christ, He in us, one with the Father, but, I don't agree that it's 'my faith'. I may need 'my courage' to exercise the faith which God brings to me when He directs me specifically, but not my faith. My faith would be useless. But 'His faith', is powerful. It raises the dead, heals the sick, cleanses the leper, and so on.

As I read John 15, His power is only in me as I rest in Him. It's not something I take and run with, separately from Him. I know you think that's not what you're saying, but the moment you say this or that is mine, I'm nervous. It's too heavy a burden for me to bear unless God has given me a word, sent me to deliver it, and backed me up all the way. (I don't just mean speaking. I include 'doing' in the wide range of possibilities.)

I do realise there are many small commands which are like mini-covenants, in which if we do our part - such as showing mercy. The merciful will obtain mercy; but I maintain the good works in which we walk were created by Him, not us.

I look forward to the Bible verses you have which show that we initiate the exercise of faith.
 

dragonfly

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Hi aspen,

I'm doing your Bible study, amen.

Acts 15:11 has a context. Faith has been mentioned twice already. Salvation is not by grace alone. 'The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ' is that He went to the cross on our behalf, and slew that old serpent for us.

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.'

Ephesians 2:5. Here again there is a greater elaboration in the context:

Ephesians 2:4 - 9 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) and hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ...'

2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who has abolished death, and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11 Whereto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles...'

The context is Paul's calling, not his salvaton per se. It ties in with his mention of 'grace' in Ephesians 3:5 '... according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power ... 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles ...'

The power to which he's referring is the power of the Father at the resurrection of Christ - which also works in us when we've acknowledged our grafting into the death of Christ for us. This is also the Spirit of grace, the Spirit of enabling. To be living out the new life which Paul did, required that he let himself be changed. The grace of God brings it to pass.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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God's Grace is the only way that we can be justified in the first place - God chooses us, we do not choose Him.
 

dragonfly

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Hi aspen,

I have no quarrel with your statement, although I would suggest that God does His best to choose everyone, but some people reject that, and some would quote Jesus saying, 'Many are called but few are chosen.'

God's Grace is the only way that we can be justified in the first place - God chooses us, we do not choose Him.

All I wanted to point out is that we are not saved by grace alone. We are saved through faith in what has been offered through grace.
 

Rach1370

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Aspen,


goodness....
Stop worrying about my "tone" and just get the revelation.
Im only here to impart light and let you ither grow a little brighter or stay the same as you were.

And frankly, what you perceive as lacking in civility, is just me being direct.
Truth is like that, its naked and its direct.
No need to sugar coat it.


and just for you...

......[font=lucida sans unicode']truth and untruth went swimming in the lake.[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']while truth's back was turned, untruth stole truth's clothes.[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']now...[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']truth goes about as the naked truth while untruth parades about[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']in truth's clothes....[/font]



[font=lucida sans unicode']K[/font]

Ahem... I feel I need to point out that Foreigner was actually address MrR and Neophyte! He was actually standing up for you! ^_^