Reason for The Crusades explained

[Wrangler]

Perhaps you would like to address the following passages, since @Wrangler is either unwilling or unable to do so, especially since they include Jesus’s recorded response to an “application of the physical”:

I've thoroughly addressed these spiritual verses many times. You don't have eyes to see as you ignore Jesus words to buy a sword, give to Caesar what is Caesar's and God's plan to the problem of evil is to have Jesus ultimately kill more people than anyone by throwing them into the Lake of Fire, to their 2nd Death. We are expected to follow Jesus, not only in the spiritual ways but in these soulful ways.

 

[Matthias]

This is the Great Commission.



This is a great catastrophe.

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

Spurgeon is one of my favorite Christian authors …

“As God is all-sufficient, our defense is equal to any emergency.” - C.H. Spurgeon

”We do not use the weapons of the world.” - Paul

 

[Matthias]

From my X / Twitter “Following” feed 3 days ago -

“When I was Muslim, I compared Muhammad’s last words to Jesus’ last words.

Not just the facts, but the spirit behind them.

And bro, the difference is staggering. It shook my devout Muslim faith.

According to Sahih al-Bukhari, Muhammad’s final words included: ‘May Allah curse the Jews and the Christians. They made the graves of their prophets into places of worship.’

Those are words associated with his final moments.

No forgiveness. No reconciliation. No peace.

Now compare that to Jesus.

Beaten, betrayed, tortured, hanging on a cross with nails through His wrists, Jesus says,

’Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.’

And then: ‘It is finished.’

One dies speaking curses.

The other dies extending forgiveness.

One ends by drawing lines and reinforcing divisions.

The other tears the vail and reconciles heaven and earth.

And whether people like it or not, final words reveal something deeply personal about the heart.

That contrast shook me.

Because one man’s final moments reinforced separation, while the other‘s changed eternity through mercy, sacrifice, and love.

Please sit with that honestly.”

Shahriq Khan

https://x.com/realshahriqkhan/status/2056902803793285396?s=46&t=T64e94h2unfHH-VO4i01zA

It’s no accident that I waited for 3 days to share this with you @Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

The right way to respond to Islam is the way Jesus responded to his enemies.

 

[NayborBear]

Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

I believe you may have hit upon the "Crux of the Biscuit" here!
For THIS is how it APPEARS in (not just) my eyes, how y'all INTERPRET "living peaceably!"
Am I wrong here?

 

[NayborBear]

The people of the time are dead and gone! Awaiting judgment! We live in a time of totally different issues.

It is SO hard for me to believe that these people are able to INTERPRET?:
"DEATH TO AMERICA!"..........."DEATH TO ISRAEL!"
"DEATH TO AMERICA!"..........."DEATH TO ISRAEL!"
To mean?:
"WE NEED JESUS!!....................."WE NEED JESUS!!"

With "overlying" insinuations of "pacifism in the FACE of the enemy?"
Is nothing SHORT of?..................!

 

[Matthias]

It is SO hard for me to believe that these people are able to INTERPRET?:
"DEATH TO AMERICA!"..........."DEATH TO ISRAEL!"
"DEATH TO AMERICA!"..........."DEATH TO ISRAEL!"
To mean?:
"WE NEED JESUS!!....................."WE NEED JESUS!!"

No one here does. You’ve constructed a straw man.

With "overlying" insinuations of "pacifism in the FACE of the enemy?"
Is nothing SHORT of?..................!

Follow Jesus and the apostles in the face of the enemy.

 

[Matthias]

I believe you may have hit upon the "Crux of the Biscuit" here!
For THIS is how it APPEARS in (not just) my eyes, how y'all INTERPRET "living peaceably!"View attachment 84519
Am I wrong here?

My answer: Yes, you are wrong here.

 

[rockytopva]

There have been terrible sins from the time of Christ until this very day. Let us remember it is the will of God to handle sins on an individual level...

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. - Deuteronomy 24:16

 

[Justified]

I've thoroughly addressed these spiritual verses many times. You don't have eyes to see as you ignore Jesus words to buy a sword, give to Caesar what is Caesar's

No, you actually haven't. The most you have done is make up your own false categories of "spiritual verses" and "soulful verses" which allow you to dismiss anything that doesn't fit with your beliefs, which is one reason why you are in error so often. Another reason is that you don't understand context.

To address the first error, this:

Luk 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Is no different than this (or any of the other verses I provided):

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Both were commands given to Jesus's disciples.

To address the second error, you ignore the context of this:

Luk 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Which includes this:

Luk 22:49 And when those who were around him saw what would follow, they said, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?”
Luk 22:50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
Luk 22:51 But Jesus said, “No more of this!” And he touched his ear and healed him.

And this:

Mat 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

God's plan to the problem of evil is to have Jesus ultimately kill more people than anyone by throwing them into the Lake of Fire, to their 2nd Death. We are expected to follow Jesus, not only in the spiritual ways but in these soulful ways.

This is a gross misinterpretation of Scripture. As I have stated more than once, Jesus is the perfect, sinless, Just Judge. It is his prerogative, as Judge, as the Son of God, to judge all peoples at the end of time. At that time he will throw unbelievers into the lake of fire. In the meantime, he gave many commands that he expects his followers to obey. Using the Judgement as support for killing people now is a wicked and grievous error.

Please, in all seriousness, for your sake, go and learn how to properly exegete and interpret Scripture; there are a lot of good books out there on such topics as hermeneutics, and a lot of good commentaries.

 

[Justified]

I believe you may have hit upon the "Crux of the Biscuit" here!
For THIS is how it APPEARS in (not just) my eyes, how y'all INTERPRET "living peaceably!"View attachment 84519
Am I wrong here?

Incredibly wrong. First, it has nothing to do with sticking one's head in the ground. Second, it's notable that you, too, ignore the verses I have given, although you did quote the one that I included just to see if either of you would pick it out as (supposed) support for your position. It's worth pointing out that you also don't understand context. Look at the verses both before and after verse 18:

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
...
Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
...
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

What verse 18 absolutely cannot support is using violence to kill your enemy. Stop letting fear and hate drive your interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Anchorite]

Please, in all seriousness, for your sake, go and learn how to properly exegete and interpret Scripture; there are a lot of good books out there on such topics as hermeneutics, and a lot of good commentaries.

You can plead all you want, but @Wrangler is stubbornly stuck on claiming that (1)Jesus was a liar and (2) Christians must disobey Jesus’ commands, and go ahead and be violent and engage in killing enemies.

He keeps bringing up the “buy a sword” statement, when it has been repeatedly explained that two swords were inadequate for armed defense, and that the meager two swords were just so Jesus would be reckoned with the transgressors. Roman soldiers had to arrest Him as posing a threat to the empire.

 

[Justified]

You can plead all you want, but @Wrangler is stubbornly stuck on claiming that (1)Jesus was a liar and (2) Christians must disobey Jesus’ commands, and go ahead and be violent and engage in killing enemies.

I know. I just want to make sure that he is warned, so that in the end he is without excuse. With all that we have available to us these days, even much of it free on the Internet, there is no excuse for such poor exegesis and biblical illiteracy. It's actually disturbing and incredibly shocking, given the nature of the claims of the Bible and the seriousness of what can happen when one gets certain things so wrong.

He keeps bringing up the “buy a sword” statement, when it has been repeatedly explained that two swords were inadequate for armed defense, and that the meager two swords were just so Jesus would be reckoned with the transgressors. Roman soldiers had to arrest Him as posing a threat to the empire.

I agree. Two swords are certainly not enough to go on the offensive, and not adequate for defence, so it seems there was something more to what Jesus said, with Luke 22:37 likely being the reason. I have made that argument before, but seeing as how I can't even get them to acknowledge some very basic, clear commands from Jesus and the apostles, I didn't think it worth the effort. Context is completely lost on them.

 

[Wrangler]

No, you actually haven't.

Let‘s agree to disagree agreeably.

This is a gross misinterpretation of Scripture.

No. It’s the proper interpretation. Who else can match Jesus raising people from the dead from all time for th3 purpose of killing them a 2nd time?

The most you have done is make up your own false categories of "spiritual verses" and "soulful verses"

Not false. You can’t even admit that Jesus didn’t cook spiritual fish but actual, physical, carnal fish on the Sea of Galilea for his friends.

 

[Wrangler]

To address the first error

Your error, which you childishly try to cover by up by switching the verses that show your error.

You don't have eyes to see as you ignore Jesus words to buy a sword, give to Caesar what is Caesar's and God's plan to the problem of evil is to have Jesus ultimately kill more people than anyone by throwing them into the Lake of Fire, to their 2nd Death.

Sure, if you only consider spiritual verses, you embrace over-spritualized. That’s why you have to keep ignoring the soulful verses, such as buy a sword, give to Caesar what is Caesar's and God's plan to the problem of evil is to have Jesus ultimately kill more people than anyone by throwing them into the Lake of Fire, to their 2nd Death.

 

[Wrangler]

@Justified, here is another soulful verse, not to support defending oneself, but soulful, nonetheless: if you do not work, you shall not eat. This is not referring to spiritual work but work to sustain one’s body, not spiritual food but actual, physical, carnal food.

 

[Justified]

Let‘s agree to disagree agreeably.

Why, so you don't have to bother addressing all the verses that prove your position is in serious error?

No. It’s the proper interpretation.

It's absolutely false.

Who else can match Jesus raising people from the dead from all time for th3 purpose of killing them a 2nd time?

This is very poor reasoning.

Not false.

Yes, your make-believe categories of "spiritual verses" and "soulful verses" are false. I asked you to explain them and you can't even do that.

You can’t even admit that Jesus didn’t cook spiritual fish but actual, physical, carnal fish on the Sea of Galilea for his friends.

Why do you continually resort to falsehoods? I stated: "Of course Jesus cooked literal fish, what else would they have been?" (HERE).

Your error, which you childishly try to cover by up by switching the verses that show your error.

What? I haven't switched anything nor am I trying to cover anything up. In response to me requesting that @NayborBear respond to all the verses that you continue to ignore, you responded with: "I've thoroughly addressed these spiritual verses many times. You don't have eyes to see as you ignore Jesus words to buy a sword, give to Caesar what is Caesar's." (HERE)

My response was: "The most you have done is make up your own false categories of "spiritual verses" and "soulful verses" which allow you to dismiss anything that doesn't fit with your beliefs, which is one reason why you are in error so often." This is the first error that I address, with:

"To address the first error, this:

Luk 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Is no different than this (or any of the other verses I provided):

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Both were commands given to Jesus's disciples."

I'm simply addressing what you posted and showing that the command to buy swords is no different than the command to "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." This proves that your made-up categories of "spiritual verses" and "soulful verses" are false, and serve only to allow you to ignore what doesn't fit your beliefs, which is rather a substantial amount of Scripture. Hence why you're ignoring what I stated in that post.

Sure, if you only consider spiritual verses, you embrace over-spritualized. That’s why you have to keep ignoring the soulful verses, such as buy a sword, give to Caesar what is Caesar's and God's plan to the problem of evil is to have Jesus ultimately kill more people than anyone by throwing them into the Lake of Fire, to their 2nd Death.

This is nonsense because your two categories of verses are nonsense. I've addressed all of this adequately.

 

[Wrangler]

Why, so you don't have to bother addressing all the verses that prove your position is in serious error?

I’ve literal,y answered this question dozens of times. See the dichotomy between spiritual and soulful verses.

Let’s only talk about verses that don’t mention rocks to support the conclusion that Scripture doesn’t talk about rocks. Genius!

 

[Wrangler]

This is nonsense because your two categories of verses are nonsense.

So much of what you post is exposition and commentary with no context outside your own opinions. Why in your very humble opinion do you say spiritual being different from soulful is nonsense?

 

[Wrangler]

He keeps bringing up the “buy a sword” statement

Because it stems from soulful needs that Jesus addresses, not denies.