Reasons Jews Reject Jesus

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,687
7,941
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Reason #1 – The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon – Jesus did not qualify.Reason #2 – Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles – Jesus did not do this.Reason #3– Rebuilding of the Holy Temple – Jesus failed to achieve this.Reason #4– Worldwide Reign of Peace – Jesus did not accomplish this.Reason #5 – Observance of the Torah Embraced by All Jews – Jesus didn’t bring this about.Reason #6 – Universal Knowledge of G-d – Jesus clearly failed here also.

Reason #1 - The messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David and King Solomon—Jesus did not qualify.

What of “He lowered himself and took on our image.” Born of a woman? How many born of a woman are a descendant of King David and King Solomon?

Reason #2 – Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles – Jesus did not do this.

“If I be raised up, I will draw all men unto me.”? “He who gathers not with me, he scatters?”

Reason #3– Rebuilding of the Holy Temple – Jesus failed to achieve this.

Is the Temple with the foundation of Christ growing? Edification = to build up. Opposite of destruction=to tear down.

#4– Worldwide Reign of Peace – Jesus did not accomplish this.

Reconciliation to God!?!?
James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

that make peace with Who?
2 Corinthians 5:18-20 And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To with, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,(worldwide reign of Peace) not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be you reconciled to God.

Reason #5 – Observance of the Torah Embraced by All Jews – Jesus didn’t bring this about.

embraced by “all Jews” without exception
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

They will observe…it is written in their hearts?

#6 – Universal Knowledge of G-d – Jesus clearly failed here also.
It was them (I mean the religious here) who would not share God with All. “Universal” was NOT wanted (Imo even though it is listed as a fail) but instead “Universal knowledge of God” was bucked against. If Jesus wasn’t bringing “universal knowledge of God” they would not have killed Him. They (I mean the religious here) hated His message was for all; wanting it to be only about them instead of a message to give to others. Same with “universal knowledge of God” I’m a female and someone once told me Jesus was for women and I thought “nope Jesus is for men.” Yet “universal knowledge of God” means men and women alike. Bond and free alike. Jew and Greek alike. He went and found tax collectors and fishermen…and the religious did not want “universal knowledge of God” even though it was supposed to be their way to recognize Him. “Universal” “equality”. That to me is the scariest thing of all …religion is still that today “all for me God!” There is a verse “they would exclude you” and to me it’s very true.
 
Last edited:

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,602
4,874
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
"[Christians] are the most disturbed of any group one might encounter because they hold to their beliefs in this regard so tightly, that it's almost impossible for them to let go" is the pot calling the kettle black.
Especially this piece....

But to Jews, the story- even if a lovely one, has no significance if Joseph was not really the father at all. None of it matters to them if Joseph wasn't the father, and particularly if (as Christians promote) there was no father at all. It's extremely problematic.

So how can such a problem be confronted? Christians typically have little, or no response. @Mr E
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr E

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,406
5,017
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are there better responses? There are. Do you really want to go down that sort of rabbit hole?
Yes. Yes, I do want to go down every rabbit hole in defense of our lord.

Here's the thing, though. Any reasonable debate ought to recognize the strength and weakness of both sides and I think you alluded to this. The whole reason Christians get uncomfortable and disturbed is because they know their argument ON THIS POINT is weak. Many fictional stories, for instance, invent scenario's to explain 'who really killed JFK.' I understand this was such a popular motif that Gene Roddenberry conceived an episode where the intrepid crew of the Enterprise goes back in time and Spock, for some reason, is the one who kills JFK.

Fiction. It's not true and has no validity.

A weak reason is STILL a valid reason. Why did I do X? "Because I wanted to" is a perfectly good reason EVEN THOUGH I may not be able to defend it to the n-th degree. From a certain point of view, it may not hold up to scrutiny. And there we have it. Given that Jesus is the son of God - and not Joseph's biological son - Jesus does not fulfill the requirement of the Messiah. Is that Game. Set. Match? I don't think so and here is why.

APOLOGY. Many times in Scripture the issues of step-children or illegitimate children are implied to qualify as children of the parent. If not for God, Sara's plan to have Abraham father a child illegitimately would have worked from a certain point of view. Jacob was tricked into marrying Leah when he consented to marry Rachel. This fraud did not invalidate the marriage or the children that came from that fraudulent union. Moses was adopted by Pharaoh. And we can detail the many other times the issue of step-children or illegitimate children are implied to qualify as children of the parent.

Consider this. Scripture says that a man may not have sex with a stepdaughter for that would be incest, even though she is not of his own blood. The passages are Leviticus 18:17, Leviticus 20:17, and Ezekiel 22:11. Those who are saved are adopted by God (Romans 8; Galatians 4; Ephesians 1:5), then it is clear that God treats the adopted children (and one would presume stepchildren if it were possible) the same as the natural son. If God treats us that way, then we ought to treat children who are not our birth-children the same as if they were.

Thomas Jefferson, now a giant in the pantheon of the American Revolution, credited as being the principle author of the Declaration of Independence, made it as a representative by the skin of his teeth. The properly selected representative to the Revolutionary counsel was taken ill and Jefferson went as a substitute. This does not diminish Jefferson's connection to bringing historical change to the world.

And Jesus, though not in blood related to David is legally related to David, making him every bit a real and true son of David as the culture of the time permitted. And this is my defense of my lord fulfilling prophecy, so help me God.
 
Last edited:

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,406
5,017
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whatever reasons they list are not true or just haven't been fulfilled yet.
Agreed. Yet, we have to go to the next level of detail.

Someone used the example recently of supposing one is not a traveller until they finished their travels. It shows a kind of desperation to deny what is obviously the case. Jesus is the Messiah EVEN before he began his ministry, even before he fulfilled any prophecy.

We agree that some prophecies have not been fulfilled yet but have faith they will be. Jews disagree. And here is another example of recognizing the weakness of our argument. I'm OK with losing the battle so long as we win the war. Granted, not all the prophesies have been fulfilled. Jesus is still the Messiah. So, help me God.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2022
690
379
63
43
X
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well, that reinforces the validity of the Jews rejecting Jesus because the descent is supposed to be biological and not specious.
Here is what the Bible says:

Ezekiel 37:24
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Jesus IS David
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2022
690
379
63
43
X
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Here is what the Bible says:

Ezekiel 37:24
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Jesus IS David
Additional supporting scripture:

Isaiah 55
3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:

5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.

Ezekiel 34
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

David is the Messiah, returned as Jesus.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2022
690
379
63
43
X
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Additional supporting scripture:

Isaiah 55
3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:

5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.

Ezekiel 34
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

David is the Messiah, returned as Jesus.
In the exact same vein, this is John the Baptist's relation to Elijah:

Matthew 11 KJV
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Additional supporting scripture:

Isaiah 55
3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:

5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.

Ezekiel 34
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

David is the Messiah, returned as Jesus.
Jesus alone is the Messiah who existed before creation; He created the world. David was not and is not the Messiah.

Taking a few verses out of context (without understanding them) is tragic.
 

Mr E

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2022
3,629
2,605
113
San Diego
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
es. Yes, I do want to go down every rabbit hole in defense of our lord.

Wonderful. Everyone has different tastes and different tolerances for things unfamiliar. Like music, or food…. Or theology.

I’m not out to convince anyone of anything, but simply to present what has been presented to me. Test all and convince yourself or convince yourself otherwise.

Give me a moment to muster the strength for this most unpleasant task of crushing comfortable paradigms. Please enjoy the music while your party is reached… or don’t listen at all. It’s up to each and everyone to decide for themselves and no one can do it for you. Neither is anyone other, responsible for one’s own choices. Choose you this day… as the saying goes.

Down we go…


 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In the exact same vein, this is John the Baptist's relation to Elijah:

Matthew 11 KJV
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Do you actually believe that John the Baptizer is Elijah re-created and that Jesus is David re-created? Or are you just here to spread false doctrine? If the former, you are seriously deluded and must learn to interpret Scripture correctly. If the latter, you should probably consider how God regards those who teach others false doctrine.
 

Mr E

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2022
3,629
2,605
113
San Diego
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Absurd. Jesus identifies himself as David’s lord. He asks the Pharisees how can David’s son (descendant) be his lord.

It is a profound question and they had no answer for it.

Before we dig in---- what's your answer to that question Jesus posed to them?
 

Mr E

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2022
3,629
2,605
113
San Diego
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This could be a whole thread. In short, the Messiah is greater than the son of Jesse - even though is Earthly arrival is centuries later.

I didn't intend it as any sort of a test- I was just curious as to how you might answer that profound question, that the Jews had no answer for. They had no answer of course, because in Jewish thinking regarding patriarchy, the scenario is impossible. A descendant could never be a Lord of his antecedant. It just doesn't work that way. So Jesus began by stumping them to some degree.... and that's the example I would follow.

Secondly-- would you prefer that I spin out a new thread? I don't want to step on toes, but I'm just that kind of dancer.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,880
1,907
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Agreed. Yet, we have to go to the next level of detail.

Someone used the example recently of supposing one is not a traveller until they finished their travels. It shows a kind of desperation to deny what is obviously the case. Jesus is the Messiah EVEN before he began his ministry, even before he fulfilled any prophecy.

We agree that some prophecies have not been fulfilled yet but have faith they will be. Jews disagree. And here is another example of recognizing the weakness of our argument. I'm OK with losing the battle so long as we win the war. Granted, not all the prophesies have been fulfilled. Jesus is still the Messiah. So, help me God.
But you said Jesus was not a blood relative. He was, Mary was Heli's daughter in Luke's account, Joseph was Heli's son-in-law. Joseph was from the bloodline that Matthew gave. Jacob was his biological father.
 

Mr E

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2022
3,629
2,605
113
San Diego
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes. In this thread, let’s stick to the reasons the Jews reject Jesus in this thread. :)

Rather---

how to counter the reason the Jews reject Jesus.

I'm not an apologist, but I do recognize that you have to respect the counterargument and that begins with understanding it. This is why I first commended you on your approach to the subject. I think it's key.

Their argument is non-negotiable. Jesus MUST have descended from (his father) Joseph to be considered a messiah candidate and to have had the most basic bona fides to qualify as a legitimate son in the ancestral line of David. That's the prophecy and promise that has become the foundational premise of their argument against Jesus (as presented by Christians)

The story is told in 2 Sam 7, where the word of the Lord comes to the prophet Nathan, who- acting as God's messenger (angel) relays it to David, and it becomes the basis of this belief that the Jews (and Christians alike) claim as a requirement for any subsequent messiah figure.

Nathan, speaking on behalf of God- to David--

The LORD declares to you that he himself will build a dynastic house for you. When the time comes for you to die, I will raise up your descendant, one of your own sons, to succeed you, and I will establish his kingdom. He will build a house for my name, and I will make his dynasty permanent. I will become his father and he will become my son.

As David (from the tribe of Judah) was 'anointed' by God to be King and to replace Saul (from the line of Benjamin)-- the Jews hold to this promise that any future leader (King) similarly anointed (Christ) would continue the ancestral dynasty, or- reestablish that line and that Kingdom. It can't be a new thing-- it MUST be a continuation of the previously established Kingdom -- the House of David.

That's number one.

How then, appealing to the Jewish mindset and the Jewish understanding AND the Jewish requirement that Jesus must be a direct descendant-- of David to be legitimate. A son of a son of a son...... all the way from their Father David, on down to Solomon and so on, until we get to Jesus--- from Father to son..... Joseph to Jesus? It's the only acceptable manner of ancestral transference- by blood, father to son and I'll explain why it must be so as well as how it can be so.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,602
4,874
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Rather---



I'm not an apologist, but I do recognize that you have to respect the counterargument and that begins with understanding it. This is why I first commended you on your approach to the subject. I think it's key.

Their argument is non-negotiable. Jesus MUST have descended from (his father) Joseph to be considered a messiah candidate and to have had the most basic bona fides to qualify as a legitimate son in the ancestral line of David. That's the prophecy and promise that has become the foundational premise of their argument against Jesus (as presented by Christians)

The story is told in 2 Sam 7, where the word of the Lord comes to the prophet Nathan, who- acting as God's messenger (angel) relays it to David, and it becomes the basis of this belief that the Jews (and Christians alike) claim as a requirement for any subsequent messiah figure.

Nathan, speaking on behalf of God- to David--

The LORD declares to you that he himself will build a dynastic house for you. When the time comes for you to die, I will raise up your descendant, one of your own sons, to succeed you, and I will establish his kingdom. He will build a house for my name, and I will make his dynasty permanent. I will become his father and he will become my son.

As David (from the tribe of Judah) was 'anointed' by God to be King and to replace Saul (from the line of Benjamin)-- the Jews hold to this promise that any future leader (King) similarly anointed (Christ) would continue the ancestral dynasty, or- reestablish that line and that Kingdom. It can't be a new thing-- it MUST be a continuation of the previously established Kingdom -- the House of David.

That's number one.

How then, appealing to the Jewish mindset and the Jewish understanding AND the Jewish requirement that Jesus must be a direct descendant-- of David to be legitimate. A son of a son of a son...... all the way from their Father David, on down to Solomon and so on, until we get to Jesus--- from Father to son..... Joseph to Jesus? It's the only acceptable manner of ancestral transference- by blood, father to son and I'll explain why it must be so as well as how it can be so.
The Messiah Would Be a Descendant of David
God declared, “I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king.”

by Jews for Jesus | January 01 2018

Reference: 2 Samuel 7:12-16; Isaiah 11:1; Jeremiah 23:5-6;
Fulfillment: Matthew 1:1; Luke 1:32-33; Acts 15:15-16; Hebrews 1:5

Second Samuel 7 features God’s promise to raise up David’s descendant Solomon as king, with the promise that he would build the Temple (“a house”) in verse 13. Yet the “house” also means the line of Davidic descendants, as verse 16 suggests (“Your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me”). This promise includes a father-son relationship between God and the Davidic kings (verse 14); a warning that royal sin will come with consequences (verse 14 — amply illustrated in the history of Israel’s and Judah’s kings); but a promise that the Davidic kingship would always remain objects of God’s chesed (“steadfast love”) and would be everlasting.

The prophets of ancient Israel looked for a day when this promise would be fulfilled in an ultimate descendant of David — the Messiah – who would rule over the nation. Isaiah 11:1, in a great messianic passage, tells us that “there shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.” Jesse, as we learn elsewhere, was the father of David. Jeremiah writes: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness’” (Jeremiah 23:5-6).

The New Testament presents Jesus as the fulfillment of this requirement for the Messiah, that he be descended from King David. And so we have verses such as:

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matthew 1:1)

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end. (Luke 1:32-33)

In addition, both Matthew and Luke provide genealogies tracing Jesus back to David.

The title “Son of David” is found on the lips of various people in the gospel accounts, for example, a blind beggar sitting near the road:

When he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” (Mark 10:47)

Jesus’ Davidic descent is also implied in Acts 15:15-16, in which James quotes Amos 9:11:

With this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written, “After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it.” (Acts 15:15-16)

The “tent of David” mentioned by Amos and quoted by James refers to the house or line of David. To rebuild the house of David implies the coming of the Messiah.

And in a quote combining Psalm 2 and this passage in 2 Samuel, we read concerning Jesus:

For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? (Hebrew 1:5)

The New Testament, therefore, consistently depicts Jesus as a descendant of David (for an apparent exception, see the article on Psalm 110:1-4). The two genealogies in Matthew and Luke, however, differ from one another and this has led to questions as to whether the two gospels contradict one another. Matthew begins with Abraham and ends with Jesus. Luke begins with Jesus “being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph” (Luke 3:23) and works backward beyond Abraham all the way to Adam. Matthew traces the line through Solomon, David’s son (the royal line), while Luke traces it through Nathan, a different son (a non-royal line).

It is possible that Matthew traces Jesus’ descent through Joseph, and Luke through Mary, who is assumed then to also be of Davidic descent. Or, if both run through Joseph, the difference can be accounted for by certain laws of inheritance by which, in the case of those who die childless, another family member inherits (and thus that person’s name enters the genealogy); or by the custom of levirate marriage, whereby the brother of a man who died childless raises up descendants for the deceased (and his name thereby enters the genealogy). These ideas have been discussed for many years. We should note that the early followers of Jesus never saw a contradiction in the genealogies, but saw both as proof that Jesus was descended from David – even if both take different routes down the family tree to get there. As scholar Michael Brown has observed, “Common sense would also tell you that the followers of Jesus, who were totally dedicated to demonstrating to both Jews and Gentiles that he was truly the Messiah and Savior, would not preserve and pass on two impossibly contradictory genealogies.”1 Just because we cannot figure out why the genealogies differ doesn’t mean there cannot be a good explanation, even if it is not entirely clear to us some two thousand years later. The problem, as C. S. Lewis said in another connection, is that “all the men who know the facts are dead and can’t blow the gaff.”

But that Jesus is descended from David is a fact.

End Notes
1. Michael L. Brown, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, vol. 4 New Testament Objections (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2007), 76. For a detailed discussion of the differences and problems in the genealogies, see this book, sections 5.10 through 5.12.


Continue..........
 
Last edited:

Mr E

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2022
3,629
2,605
113
San Diego
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To crack the egg you have to first acknowledge it, fragile as it is. Without wanting to offer a 99-cent biology lesson, I must-- such is the world we now live in. Sigh--- girls have two x-chromosomes (XX) Boys have one x and one y (XY). You can think of that Y as the penis part. It's what makes a boy a boy and not a girl. When a mommy and a daddy love each other (in a Biblical way) a baby can be conceived as a result of two parents joining. The mommy will contribute one of her two X's. If the daddy also contributes an X-- the baby will become a little girl-- an XX just like her mommy and not an XY like her daddy, because she got his X, not his Y. She inherits one X from mom, and one X from dad.

Conversely-- if the baby gets one of its mommy's two X's (that's all she can give, remember) and it gets a Y from the daddy (and not his X) then the baby becomes a little boy-- just like his daddy an XY (one X from mom, one Y from dad).

The Jewish argument is one of science. They ask-- where did little baby boy Jesus get his Y from if not from Joseph AND-- if not from Joseph-- he is simply NOT of the lineage of David and that bloodline that descended through Judah, son of Jacob, son of Issac, son of Abraham.

He is either of this line through a father, or he is not. For the Jews, there is no equivocating on this point.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,602
4,874
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
However, in the Talmud Jesus is referred to as somebody who was considered a descendant of David.

Had they known that it was not true they would have used the opportunity to point this out. However, that never happened. Rather, in the Talmud, Sanhedrin 43, page 1, it is said that Jesus was “close to the Kingdom.” They then explain that he was close to the Hasmonean dynasty.
And indeed, according to the NT documents, Jesus was not only close to the royal line but also to the priesthood. The NT says that Jesus was a descendant of David from both sides of his parents, both in regard to his biological mother’s ancestry and of his adoptive father. In Judaism, an adoptive father was always considered father in every respect. Based upon this as well among the nations the notion of “Apotropos” evolved. In this matter, pay attention to this rabbinical commentary:

“On what basis do we relate Aaron’s sons with Moses? Since he taught them Torah. And it is written about him as if he begot them. And therefore it is said that on the day that the Lord spoke to Moses at Sinai: Who made the sons of Aaron be called by Moses? The Torah that God spoke to Moses at Mount Sinai. Thus you should teach that whoever teaches his friend’s son Torah the scriptures say that he has begotten him.” (Midrash Aggada, Numbers 3, A)

Simply put, the commentary states that Moses was the father of Aaron’s sons only because he taught them Torah.
And next to that, the Jewish tradition itself states that the Messiah should not have a biological father. We already discussed this matter in detail in videos about the Son of God and the virgin birth of the Messiah.
However, we would like to quote Prof. Hananel Mak, Talmud Department University of Bar Ilan from his work on Rashi’s Rabbi, Rav Moshe HaDarshan:

“The commentary is based on the combination of the human character of the Messiah who does not have a father of flesh and blood, the prophecy of the suffering and servile servant of Isaiah 53, which is the section “My servant will act wisely” and Psalm 110, that describes the relationship of God with the one sitting at his right and with Melchizedek.” (Prof. Hananel Mak)

Therefore, Prof. Hananel Mak acknowledges the fact that Rabbi Moshe HaDarshan, admired by Rashi, interpreted from Isaiah 53 that the Messiah would not have a biological father.
With the destruction of the 2nd temple the genealogical scrolls were also destroyed. And therefore, in our days, there is no way to know someone’s exact ancestry.

This is a lethal blow to the current rabbinical tradition, because if God gave the people of Israel this sign to identify the lineage of the Messiah, we have been unable to know for sure if someone is from the line of David or not since the time of the temple, which was destroyed 1900 years ago.

Moreover, our people’s lineage has been become intermingled over the centuries, both on a national and international level. That’s why there are Jews with dark skin, Jews with blond hair, Jews with slanted eyes, middle eastern Jews that look like other people groups from North Africa, Jews with blue eyes and European skin color, and so on. Over the 2000 years of exile all our lineages as Jews were mixed.
But today, centuries after the destruction of the temple and all our the genealogical scrolls, the Rabbis keep trying to restart the discussion by claiming that Jesus is not from David’s line. See an example from Rabbi Michael Skobac who claims as follows:

“It turns out that Yeshu(a)’s ancestry on Joseph’s side associated to King David, goes through a King with the name Jehoiachin. The problem is, that in Jeremiah chapter 22 this king is being cursed by God. ‘Thus says the Lord: Write this man down as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on the throne of David and ruling again in Judah.’ From this passage in Jeremiah we understand that every descendant of Jehoiachin is disqualified from being the Messiah and therefore Yeshu(a) is disqualified.” (Rabbi Michael Skobac)

And indeed, the Rabbi is right. King Coniah, known also as Jehoiachin, was cursed. But what the Rabbi forgot to tell you, or might not know himself, is that in the book Haggai, chapter 2, verse 23, Zerubbabel, Jehoiachin’s grandson, reigns over the tribe of Judah. And at the end of the chapter God tells him:

“… [I will] make you like a signet ring, for I have chosen you…” (Haggai 2:23)

This means that though God cursed Jehoiachin, God later reversed the curse and his descendent, Zerubbabel, indeed reigned once again over Judah. Turn to Rabbi David Ben Yosef Kimhi’s commentary on Jehoiachin. He too states that God forgave and withdrew the curse from Jehoiachin’s lineage. One more example comes from the Rabbi Daniel Asor.

“We find that Yeshu(a)’s genealogy written in the gospels of the NT are mixed up. Matthew says that Yeshu(a)’s grandfather was Jakob. However, in Luke’s book it says that Eli was his grandfather.” (Rabbi Daniel Asor)

Rabbi Asor claims that both Matthew and Luke present Yeshu(a)’s genealogy in their gospels. And that these genealogies contradict each other, since they mention totally different names. That’s right! The genealogies are different from each other and indeed contain different names.
This should have helped the Rabbi understand that they do not present the same genealogy. Rather, Matthew presents the genealogy of Jesus’s father, while Luke, presents the genealogy of Jesus’s mother. These are two different genealogies and not one.
Today, we don’t have the genealogical scrolls, therefore it is impossible to prove the lineage of any contenders claiming to be the Messiah since the time of the second temple. In Jesus’ case, however, the scrolls were still available to been seen, and even the writings of his adversaries prove that he fulfilled the criteria. He was indeed from the line of David.