Reasons Jews Reject Jesus

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Adam

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it is appointed unto men but ONCE to die and after that the judgment".
Yes, they die once, then are judged, then reincarnated after some time in heaven or hell:

As Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither.

Blessed be God that liveth for ever, and blessed be his kingdom. For he doth scourge, and hath mercy: he leadeth down to hell [hades], and bringeth up again: neither is there any that can avoid his hand.

Woe be unto you, ungodly men, which have forsaken the law of the most high God! For when you are born, you shall be born to a curse: and when you die, a curse shall be your portion. All that are of the earth shall return to the earth again: so the ungodly shall go from a curse to destruction.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
the spirit and power of Elias,
So in other words, his soul.
 

Wrangler

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And Mary and Joseph were both direct descendants of King David - see Luke 3:23-24, 31-32 and Matthew 1:6, 17-18.
That’s not true. Both accounts are through Joseph.


In Matthew 1 V16 16 Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary.
 

Wrangler

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@Wrangler I thought you wanted a bible scripture location for Mary's lineage to David. I cannot find it on your thread.

Anyway to answer the query anyway...

3 areas to consider concerning Mary's direct linkage the King David

1. Luke 3:23b " ... being supposedly the son of Joseph, the son of (H)Eli....."

Many believe that Luke is saying that Yahshua was the grandson of (H)Eli or (E)Heli through Mary.
And again, this is false. Luke’s genealogy is through Joseph’s line.

The statement that ‘Many believe that Luke is saying that Yahshua was the grandson of (H)Eli or (E)Heli through Mary’ is true; many believe this false statement.

Luke 3:23 is Jesus, the son of Joseph and continues through Joseph’s ancestors. If it were through Mary, v23 would say son of Mary.

If Mary were kin to David, Reason #1 would be positively obliterated. Sadly, a fair reading of Luke 3:23 does not say this. We both know people with a doctrinal agenda exercise Eisegesis, claiming the text says what they want it to say.
 
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Johann

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And again, this is false. Luke’s genealogy is through Joseph’s line.

The statement that ‘Many believe that Luke is saying that Yahshua was the grandson of (H)Eli or (E)Heli through Mary’ is true; many believe this false statement.

Luke 3:23 is Jesus, the son of Joseph and continues through Joseph’s ancestors. If it were through Mary, v23 would say son of Mary.

If Mary were kin to David, Reason #1 would be positively obliterated. Sadly, a fair reading of Luke 3:23 does not say this. We both know people with a doctrinal agenda exercise Eisegesis, claiming the text says what they want it to say.
All of these have already been discussed.
J.
 

Adam

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in order to simply have Elijah's mantle upon him, like Elisha did. John came in the spirit and power of Elijah...that same mantle of authority and power that Elijah had, given to him by God.
Here is a question then: is the mantle of a prophet earned by holy living, by being obedient to God, through prayer, or some sort of goodness?

According to what you say, then no

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

For no apparent reason, a baby can be born a prophet, since there is no reincarnation. Seems a little unfair. Why wasn't I born a prophet? Why are some kids born with the holy spirit and not others?

This verse only is justifiable if the baby is a prophet reborn, in which case, then his power and authority is merited from actions in his previous life.
 

APAK

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And again, this is false. Luke’s genealogy is through Joseph’s line.

The statement that ‘Many believe that Luke is saying that Yahshua was the grandson of (H)Eli or (E)Heli through Mary’ is true; many believe this false statement.

Luke 3:23 is Jesus, the son of Joseph and continues through Joseph’s ancestors. If it were through Mary, v23 would say son of Mary.

If Mary were kin to David, Reason #1 would be positively obliterated. Sadly, a fair reading of Luke 3:23 does not say this. We both know people with a doctrinal agenda exercise Eisegesis, claiming the text says what they want it to say.
Wow pretty sure of yourself to quickly know and say what Luke had in mind and call my view completely false. You have to do better that that W.


Matthew Chapter 1 is Joseph's descendants list. Luke speaks of another genealogical list. They are nothing like each other, not even remotely similar. Have you compared and contrasted each list? And then understood maybe why?

No, you cannot also overrule and readily dismiss the conversation with Gabriel and Zechariah that pointed to her lineage with David. You must consider it.

I know you are looking for a direct quote or scripture for Mary's lineage as for Joseph. It would have been highly irregular to show a female/spouse or woman's lineage in scripture. it would not say 'son of Mary' at all.

How do you really know that Luke's genealogical list is not implicating Mary, and not of Joseph? Luke’s birth narrative and story does focus on Mary. Luke tells the story from her perspective not Joseph's. Context has to be really considered here.

And where did you derive Reason #1 from? Yourself, from your thoughts or from the common views of Jews. And why cannot Reason #1 be obliterated if it in err?

And then what also totally obliterates Reason #1 is this...

The Messiah had to be descended from David through Solomon in the Male line. If Jesus was not the son of Joseph he doesn’t meet the basic requirements. At the time of Jesus's birth nothing was matrilineal.

Reason # ONE is TNTed!.....:Thumbsup:
 

Jim B

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If Jesus is God then why does he call God his Father?

In the context of the spiritual, one's Lord is one you surrender your will to. David surrenders his will to the man he will become, Jesus, and thereby becomes Jesus. At the same time, Jesus is the product of David's reincarnation, and therefore David's spiritual son.

Note also the context: the Saducees don't believe in "the ressurection" and challenge Jesus. Jesus answers that after death you will become a spirit. Then immediately afterwards, within the context of RESSURECTION Jesus poses this counter-challenge. This would be a non-sequitur if he were not revealing his own nature.
Since you clearly don't understand things, judging by your first sentence, there is no need to discuss other things with you.

And try using a spell checker and/or do some proof-reading.
 
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Jim B

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Here is a question then: is the mantle of a prophet earned by holy living, by being obedient to God, through prayer, or some sort of goodness?

According to what you say, then no

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

For no apparent reason, a baby can be born a prophet, since there is no reincarnation. Seems a little unfair. Why wasn't I born a prophet? Why are some kids born with the holy spirit and not others?

This verse only is justifiable if the baby is a prophet reborn, in which case, then his power and authority is merited from actions in his previous life.
LOL!!
 
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Adam

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Since you clearly don't understand things, judging by your first sentence, there is no need to discuss other things with you.

And try using a spell checker and/or do some proof-reading.

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 

Wrangler

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Wow pretty sure of yourself to quickly know and say what Luke had in mind and call my view completely false. You have to do better that that W.
Sorry but it is not his thoughts but his word, ‘Joseph’ rather than ‘Mary’ that determines the conclusion to have confidence.

Rather, it is all apologists who have to do better than that.

Who talks like that?
 

Johann

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Is Jesus Really from
the Line of David?
Jesus was not only a branch from the royal line but also the priesthood.
According to several prophecies in the Old Testament, the Messiah must be
a descendant of David. In the New Testament, the apostle Paul starts his letter to
the church in Rome: “Jesus the Messiah, our Lord, who was descended from
David according to the flesh” (Romans 1:3).
Son of David: In the past, nobody questioned that Jesus was a descendant of
David, neither historians nor the Sages.

This was because the genealogical
scrolls of the people of Israel were accessible in the Temple. If somebody
disagreed he would have speedily pointed out the mistake by referring to those
documents. Everyone knew that Jesus was indeed a descendant of David.

If
Jesus was not from the Davidic line, both the priests and the Rabbis during
Jesus’ time, not to mention the Talmud, would have pointed this out. However,
in the Talmud Jesus is referred to as somebody who was considered a
descendant of David.

Had they known that it was not true they would have used
the opportunity to point this out. However, that never happened. Rather, in the
Talmud, Sanhedrin 43, page 1, it is said that Jesus was “close to the Kingdom.”
The line of a King and the line of a Priest: Indeed, according to the New
Testament documents, Jesus was not only a branch from the royal line but also
the priesthood.

The New Testament says that Jesus was a descendant of David
from both sides of his parents, both in regard to his biological mother’s ancestry
and of his adoptive father, Joseph. In Judaism, an adoptive father was always
considered father in every respect. Based upon this, among the nations as well
the notion of “apotropos” (guardianship) evolved. The following rabbinical
commentary supports this: “On what basis do we relate Aaron’s sons with
Moses? Since he taught them Torah. And it is written about him as if he begot
them. And therefore it is said that on the day that the Lord spoke to Moses at
Sinai: Who made the sons of Aaron be called by Moses?

The Torah that God
spoke to Moses at Mount Sinai. Thus you should teach that whoever teaches his
friend’s son Torah the scriptures say that he has begotten him” (Midrash
Aggada, Numbers 3, A).
Simply put, the commentary states that Moses was the father of Aaron’s sons
only because he taught them Torah. And next to that, the Jewish tradition itself
states that the Messiah should not have a biological father.


In addition, to quote Professor Hananel Mak, Talmud Department University
of Bar Ilan from his work on Rashi’s Rabbi, Rav Moshe HaDarshan: “The
commentary is based on the combination of the human character of the Messiah
who does not have a father of flesh and blood, the prophecy of the suffering and
servile servant of Isaiah 53, which is the section “My servant will act wisely”
and Psalm 110, that describes the relationship of God with the one sitting at his
right and with Melchizedek” (Professor Hananel Mak).


Therefore, Professor Hananel Mak acknowledges that Rabbi Moshe
HaDarshan, admired by Rashi, interpreted from Isaiah 53 that the Messiah
would not have a biological father.

With the destruction of the second temple the genealogical scrolls were also
destroyed. Therefore, in our days, there is no way to know someone’s exact
ancestry. This is a lethal blow to the current rabbinical tradition because it is no
longer possible to know for sure if someone is from the line of David since the
time of the temple destruction some 2,000 years ago.
 
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Lizbeth

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Here is a question then: is the mantle of a prophet earned by holy living, by being obedient to God, through prayer, or some sort of goodness?

According to what you say, then no

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

For no apparent reason, a baby can be born a prophet, since there is no reincarnation. Seems a little unfair. Why wasn't I born a prophet? Why are some kids born with the holy spirit and not others?

This verse only is justifiable if the baby is a prophet reborn, in which case, then his power and authority is merited from actions in his previous life.
God's sovereign choice and calling. Unfair? You think it's "not fair" that some weren't chosen to be a prophet? Do you know what kind of life they had....it sure wasn't an easy calling! You're thinking with the mind of flesh.
 
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Lizbeth

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Yes, they die once, then are judged, then reincarnated after some time in heaven or hell:

As Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither.

Blessed be God that liveth for ever, and blessed be his kingdom. For he doth scourge, and hath mercy: he leadeth down to hell [hades], and bringeth up again: neither is there any that can avoid his hand.

Woe be unto you, ungodly men, which have forsaken the law of the most high God! For when you are born, you shall be born to a curse: and when you die, a curse shall be your portion. All that are of the earth shall return to the earth again: so the ungodly shall go from a curse to destruction.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

So in other words, his soul.
Hades is just the grave, or place of the dead. Which God can resurrect from, if they were people of faith.....to become "like the angels" as Jesus said, not to go live in another body of flesh on the earth.

The spirit and power of Elijah is not of Elijah himself, but is of God.
 
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Jim B

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Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
a) This has nothing to do with the OP: reasons Jews reject Jesus.
b) What are those numbers -- 22, 23? They are not part of Paul's letter
c) What do "longsuffering", "meekness: and "temperance" mean?
 

Adam

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God's sovereign choice and calling. Unfair? You think it's "not fair" that some weren't chosen to be a prophet? Do you know what kind of life they had....it sure wasn't an easy calling! You're thinking with the mind of flesh.
I'm thinking with the mind of the spirit, I would rather have greater hardship in this life and greater reward in the next.

Why not make everyone a prophet, if it is possible to make any child a prophet in the womb? But for some reason, some children are favored and others are not. In fact, some children are killed before they are born - why? That is the fundamental question here - if there is only one life, then - why are some children prophets in the womb and others aborted? There cannot be only one life or else some lives would have never had a chance to evolve in understanding, while others were simply created with perfect understanding.

Hades is just the grave, or place of the dead. Which God can resurrect from, if they were people of faith.....to become "like the angels" as Jesus said, not to go live in another body of flesh on the earth.

The spirit and power of Elijah is not of Elijah himself, but is of God.
The spirit of Elijah is Elijah. The spirit of John the Baptist is Elijah.

Was Jesus alive before he was born? If Jesus was alive before he was born, then it is possible for spirits to incarnate as flesh.

a) This has nothing to do with the OP: reasons Jews reject Jesus.
b) What are those numbers -- 22, 23? They are not part of Paul's letter
c) What do "longsuffering", "meekness: and "temperance" mean?
It has nothing to do with OP's topic, but it is advice on good conduct.
 

Mr E

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If this were true, Sara and Abraham never would have come up with the idea to circumvent the legitimate line through Sara.

I'll try to explain it once more. Slowly.

The Jews are awaiting a messiah/king specifically a direct descendant of David as promised in scripture. Not adopted. Descended. It's very much a sticking point that can't be avoided no matter how much, or how many Christians wish it differently.

Scripture tells you specifically why Sara did what she did concerning her handmaiden, the Egyptian woman Hagar, and her husband.... It has nothing to do with the Davidic line (which comes LATER).

It wasn't to create a line for her husband-- it was to create a family for herself--

Now Sarai Abram’s wife, had not given birth to any children, but she had an Egyptian servant named Hagar. So Sarai said to Abram, “Since the LORD has prevented me from having children, please sleep with my servant. Perhaps I can have a family by her. ”Abram did what Sarai told him.
 

Mr E

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I think all the bases are covered, adoption through Joseph, biologically through Mary..... AND I have to think the fact that Mary had known no other man but her husband Joseph must mean something as well. Also there is no case to be made that Jesus had a biological father who was NOT from the line of David.

It's a nice thought, but it isn't true. Nor does @APAK "legal claim" bear any weight in the conversation. Why?

Adoption doesn't make someone a descendant.

It can make them a dependant. It can make them an heir. It can make them a part of the family. It cannot make them a descendant. --This isn't hard.

Please. I'm appealing to anyone with any intellectual honesty. Use a dictionary. Webster's even uses King David as their example of what a descendant must be.

 

Lizbeth

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It's a nice thought, but it isn't true. Nor does @APAK "legal claim" bear any weight in the conversation. Why?

Adoption doesn't make someone a descendant.

It can make them a dependant. It can make them an heir. It cannot make them a descendant. --This isn't hard.

Please. I'm appealing to anyone with any intellectual honesty. Use a dictionary. Webster's even uses King David as their example of what a descendant must be.

I think it's important that look at how the word was used in the scripture and how it was meant in the particular verse(s) one is looking at. Words in the bible are sometimes used "in a manner of speaking" and not in a completely literal sense. So we need to discern what GOD meant, since He is the one who inspired the scrips. (The writers were just writing down what the Lord was saying through them.)
 
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Mr E

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I think it's important that look at how the word was used in the scripture and how it was meant in the particular verse(s) one is looking at. Words in the bible are sometimes used "in a manner of speaking" and not in a completely literal sense. So we need to discern what GOD meant, since He is the one who inspired the scrips. (The writers were just writing down what the Lord was saying through them.)

I agree 100%.

Is their usage unclear?

I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels

(bowels is the polite way of saying 'your seat of generation' -- please don't make me illustrate)

Does that sound like adoption, or legal jargon?
 
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