Reasons why you are very unwise to trust your church’s doctrines

[Arnie Manitoba]

Your "church" group; what keeps it from becoming what you stated earlier; and, how long has it been running?

Re. finding fault; with you, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Floyd.

Here is the point I was making ...... a lot of seemingly unhappy Christians spend inordinate amounts of time finding fault with all the other Christians out there .... as though they are the enemy or something

I have a different viewpoint , the world is our enemy , not the other churches

We all have imperfections , but our function should be to examine ourselves (not much fun) , rather than examine the person in the pew next to us (much more fun)

We all have our pet doctrines , but we should not expect everyone else to be like us , there is lots of flexibility within christianity ,

For example you mentioned the Catholics .... I have been to Catholic services that were the most christian I have ever seen .... I do not consider those people my enemy

True enough there is much wrong within that organization , but the same can be said about protestants

 

[Floyd]

Floyd, on 17 Jun 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

Your "church" group; what keeps it from becoming what you stated earlier; and, how long has it been running?

Re. finding fault; with you, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Floyd.

Here is the point I was making ...... a lot of seemingly unhappy Christians spend inordinate amounts of time finding fault with all the other Christians out there .... as though they are the enemy or something

Can't argue with that, I have found the same. But; In my case, after the disappointment of realising (50 years ago) that people are people, whether Christian or not; I have since concentrated on why there are so many different teaching within the compass of "Christendom". Because (from my observations) so much of the bitterness between Christians is based on doctrinal differences (rather than personal), I/we have focused on those differences ever since. This has revealed an amazing range of variation; which, depending on the leader/s, can be deadly. That fact alone has intensified our focus on the Word only; not men's interpretations; where possible!

I have a different viewpoint , the world is our enemy , not the other churches

I see your point; but, I think both are; if I may explain my viewpoint. The atheistic world is easy to spot. The "counterfeit spirits" within Churches take time to uncover; that's because the Pulpit is the main battleground! A famous man once said, "don't look for Satan in the fleshpots of the world (he is there), but look for him in the pulpits". The reason for that, is because Satan does not want the truth of Scripture; and therefore the unity of the Body of Christ to be effectual.
This knowledge has been the motive force in us for many years now; and our task initially was to work out (prayerfully) how to be effective against Satan; in and out of church!

We all have imperfections , but our function should be to examine ourselves (not much fun) , rather than examine the person in the pew next to us (much more fun)

Agreed. Also agreed, not much fun! But that is only the beginning; and is ongoing to when we die or are raptured. It never ends, as more is revealed over time and experience!

We all have our pet doctrines , but we should not expect everyone else to be like us , there is lots of flexibility within christianity ,

We do; but there is only one Truth; which is what we push towards constantly!

For example you mentioned the Catholics .... I have been to Catholic services that were the most christian I have ever seen .... I do not consider those people my enemy

If you have read our text on the RC church; you will know that we do not pillage the congregations; but the System and its teaching! That's because it is Babylonian; and that only means Satanic!

True enough there is much wrong within that organization , but the same can be said about protestants

See above!

Floyd.

 

[John Zain]

.... but I do find fault with Christians who are consumed with finding fault with Christians.

Then thou should be finding fault with all of the epistle writers!
But, as for Jesus, He was just warnin' everyone ... no one in particular.
I'll take that back ... everything really was written to God's chosen people.
So they would get their act together, endure until the end with their faith, etc.
Why write anything to those whom God did not chose to be BACs?

Yes, thou should be finding fault with all of the epistle writers!
Oh, they bathe their criticisms in great swelling words of encouragement, edification, exhortation, etc.
So as to not discourage da folks too much.
Yes, the epistles are filled with dire warnings of everything, including loss of eternal life.

However, thanks for remaining steadily consistent with your ridiculous ideas.
With thou, we really have someone here whom we can surely count on.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The RC Church is of Babylonian origin in its teachings.
The "Protestant" churches vary in their degree of error, due to Scripture miss- teaching.
The real "Church", is called by Paul "the Body of Christ"; and has nothing to do with "mans" churches in the eventual reality of Christ's return as "Head" of His Body, the "mystery church"; as Paul declared!
There are of course in all the man made churches, members of the "mystery church"; but the controllers are in the main not aware of this fact.
Floyd.

What you have failed to consider is that "the real church members" (body of Christ) can be found within the RC & various protestant "man made churches"

It is no different than if you started Floyd perfect church in your town .... we could call it "man made" and for all you know some of your congregation could be Babylonians masquerading as Christians ....

Look at the tremendous differences between the 7 congregations in revelation , yet Jesus still called them church.

 

[Floyd]

What you have failed to consider is that "the real church members" (body of Christ) can be found within the RC & various protestant "man made churches"

It is no different than if you started Floyd perfect church in your town .... we could call it "man made" and for all you know some of your congregation could be Babylonians masquerading as Christians ....

Look at the tremendous differences between the 7 congregations in revelation , yet Jesus still called them church.

What you have missed is, that I said just that in my post!

No, I have not failed to consider; it is after all very basic!

I don't understand why you think I would disagree with you re" Floyd perfect church"; this is an invention of your own mind!

You do not have to have this antagonistic approach.

Floyd.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

What you have missed is, that I said just that in my post!

No, I have not failed to consider; it is after all very basic!

I don't understand why you think I would disagree with you re" Floyd perfect church"; this is an invention of your own mind!

You do not have to have this antagonistic approach.

Floyd.

Not trying to be antagonistic

And I plead guilty to not reading all of your post ... it is book length and I was not wanting to read a book today

 

[RANDOR]

Floyd.................now your starting to use fancy words...................

OkOkOk.................here's my take on church.................I mean since I know how the adversary works...............since I was his right hand man and all.

And if someone disagrees with this....................well............they are agreeing with satan...........Oh :huh: was that line a little harsh?
SO WHAT! GET OVER IT!
Ok..............so here is my take.

The reason people have a hard time with going to church...is that they are listening to the lies of lucifer....which in turn......convinced it was their own idea.
Now......the real reason people don't go to church...........and it really is a pathetic sight.............

The real reason lies deep....deep....deep...deep....deep into the belly.......all the other excuses are easy to obtain since they are closer to the mouth.

They have hangups...............some have many hangups........and many will get mad at me for just sayin that.......get mad all ya want.....I could care less.

Here are a few hangups....

People at church are Hypocrites.
I've got to change the oil.
It's to far.
Sermons are to long.
I should go.
There is no cross.
I can find God in the back yard.
I don't need a church to believe in God
etc etc etc............................those were close to the mouth....now lets go deep.

I don't like being around people.
I don't like myself.
I can't talk to people.
I'm to fat.
I'm to skinny.
I don't have any clothes.
I'm ugly.
I hate my personality.
people won't like me.
I hate people.
I can't go...I have a long beard.
etc etc etc...............now if people would only go after that excuse which lies deep within them.........and cast out everything that goes with it...
I'm sure they would be in church.

But remember this.......................it's all about people isn't it? People this and people that......always worrying about what other people think.

There is no excuse in God's eyes why you shouldn't be in church
And..if ya are lookin for that perfect church......now your there.

 

[Floyd]

Not trying to be antagonistic

And I plead guilty to not reading all of your post ... it is book length and I was not wanting to read a book today

Your loss!
Floyd.

 

[marksman]

One of the most common reasons for not going to church is the one spoken by seasoned and devoted followers of Christ. It is this "There has to be more to Christianity than this." If like so many leaders they keep their congregation sitting on the premises rather than standing on the promises, there is obviously going to be a boredom quotient that they are encouraging so when these people leave, they have to look at themselves, not those who are leaving.

I have left several churches because I can sleep quite comfortably on the settee at home. I don't need to sleep through boring sermons.

Apart from the fact that you will not find the one man band anywhere in the New Testament teaching on the church.

 

[Floyd]

One of the most common reasons for not going to church is the one spoken by seasoned and devoted followers of Christ. It is this "There has to be more to Christianity than this." If like so many leaders they keep their congregation sitting on the premises rather than standing on the promises, there is obviously going to be a boredom quotient that they are encouraging so when these people leave, they have to look at themselves, not those who are leaving.

I have left several churches because I can sleep quite comfortably on the settee at home. I don't need to sleep through boring sermons.

Apart from the fact that you will not find the one man band anywhere in the New Testament teaching on the church.

Good comment.
However; we as Christians should if possible gather together for the Lord.
This harder now than at any time since the 2nd world war; as to attend a group which is not honouring of the Word; is tantamount to acknowledging the enemy!!

See:

[SIZE=24pt]The Gross Neglect by Church Teachers of Coming Events![/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]It is true to say that many “churches” and their teachers, do not teach the hard facts of Scripture! Some do teach and preach Christ Crucified for the Sin of the world’s peoples, but in the Western world this has decreased to a very small percentage, especially in the last 50 - 100 years.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]There are many reasons for this fact, war has left many disillusioned and sceptical, especially when it is realised that both sides prayed for God to be on their side for victory! The 1st World War, was the accelerator in the collective awareness, that “the Leaders” were “not to be trusted,” as they so lightly sent thousands of men to certain death for the gain of a few yards of ground, or nothing! If the soldiers did not obey the command to go “over the top,” they were shot any way by their own Officers![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The 2nd World War, so soon after the carnage of the 1st,only served to accelerate and heighten the almost total distrust by civilians against ALL Authority figures, and that in particular applies to the “established Churches!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The Roman Church has continued in its dogmatic way, and has by virtue of its teachings (not of Scripture) held its adherents, and its Parishioner numbers are growing steadily. This is largely due to what they teach, especially that of Purgatory, and their implied protection and management from cradle to grave, of whole families, which in itself increases their numbers. Also, due to the long history of the Roman Church since Constantine, its Pomp and Circumstance, its worldwide spread together with the implied and stated Authority as "God's representative on earth", many people and organisations look to the Roman Catholic Church as the "The Church".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The fact that they are aberrant, and not holding their teaching to Scripture does not seem to affect their authority and control. Only individual Roman Catholic people who "dare" to read Scripture for themselves without the guiding control of a Priest, have any chance of arriving at the Truth of Christ Jesus.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The greatest loss of numbers has probably been by the Church of England, whose churches are very empty compared with the past, and as their teaching was not so fear filled as the RCC; the hold on their adherents has waned, see: Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty: http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Separate study) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]It is also notable that many new Sects have started, with a varied mix of teaching, some to Scripture but many not Scriptural and even denying the Deity of the Lord Christ Jesus, and particularly denying the importance of Israel throughout the whole of Scripture, and particularly in the probably near future. Some groups even state erroneously that Israel is no longer important in the affairs of God, and have substituted the many prophecies regarding Israel as applying to the Church! See: [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The position of the Jews in Scripture, Old and New Testaments.http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk...Jews in Scripture, Old and New Testaments.htm[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Another reason for the growth of scepticism, is the greater education of the general public, which has produced more “free thinking,” and in turn has produced “different conclusions,” which in turn has produced “greater freedom of thought and expression.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]What you may say is wrong with that? Nothing! The greater the freedom to study, correlate, evaluate and conclude, the better are the decisions for the individual and society. What does happen however is that the decisions become more complex, as the individual has the responsibility for the decision instead of one of the “Leaders!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The big decisions of the lifetime of the individual have not changed, but they are now more personal than collective, at least in the Western Culture.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]One of those “big questions/decisions” is that of the origin of the individual and of all things![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The education system has since the Second World War, become more biased to the teaching of “Evolution,” than to a Creator God,” and the Western System propagates that teaching as fact. The recent Decision by a Judge in the USA, has even made the simultaneous teaching of Evolution and Religion an outlawed activity! http://www.discovery.org/csc/http[/SIZE] www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Evolution.htm

[SIZE=14pt]Amongst many other factors is that of affluence. At present the wealth available to individuals due to greater education and innovation has increased the available wealth for many people, which has also increased “freedom” for many activities. These compete with, and shield and delay “decisions” being made by people, as to their position on many important issues of life. Amongst those is the individual decision about whether a person evolved, or was “Created!”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is an important issue, as if evolved is the decision, then a person will have to accept that at death they are obliterated![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]If the decision is for creation, then “who is the Creator?” Also, as a created being, what are one’s obligations and rites of passage through life?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is where on the latter decision, information is needed, which can be trusted! It is also the most vulnerable and exposed time and position for the person. The major factor is that the individuals “heart” is “stayed on Him.” (Him meaning Almighty God/Christ Jesus). This means that the person is SINCERE in their mission of gaining true information. To avoid repetition the following links gives more on that very important point. Corruption of the Bible Text: http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Corruption of the Bible Text.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Separate study) [/SIZE] Canon of Scripture [SIZE=medium] (Separate study)[/SIZE] GATHERING TOGETHER OF LIKE MINDED PEOPLE (CHRISTIANS AND OTHERS)[SIZE=medium] (Separate study)[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]Prophets, Prophetesses, Shepherds and Teachers; http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Prophets,Prophetesses,Shepherds and Teachers..htm[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Separate study)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The very fact of a better educated populous, and the development in the last 30 years in particular of communication systems which allow almost instantaneous communication and information extraction, means that there is a very well informed public; almost to the chagrin of Governments worldwide![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This means that News is instantaneously transmitted worldwide, and only a few peoples are not informed of all major events. This is a condition which has not prevailed in the world before, and is leading up to a crescendo of world shaking happenings which will affect everybody! Interestingly this was forecast in the Book of Daniel approx. BC 425, Chp.12:4![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]This leads us to the point of this paper. The Writers have been seeking Truth continually for many years, and have been appalled at the blindness, the bigoted attitude, the deliberate misleading, the aggressive defensiveness, the open lying, the deliberate corruption, and the lack of Truth in many teachers and leaders in Churches, Sects, groups and Colleges! This is particularly so when challenged to examine all against Scripture.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At the stage of challenge, these people in authority (as they see it,) refuse to accept the intelligence and freedom of mind of the people questioning, and tend to resort to their training or Dogma, usually stating “you are not trained to understand, as we are.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]That attitude today will eliminate all but the most sycophantic, and rightly so! The mind is the most precious of the gifts that we as humans have, and should never be given over to an organisation or person![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]There is reassurance in Scripture, that the “mind that is focused on Almighty God,” together with the promise of the help of the Holy Spirit, “the Spirit of Truth” which came to earth when Christ Ascended to the Father, will lead a person into “all Truth!” It is important to remember those promises during the years of life when the search continues; and not to be discouraged when dead ends seem to loom! This leads us to consider what should be preached from the pulpits of the world, so that people are aware what is going to happen, from Scripture’s correct understanding![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Regarding the Bible itself, see above link.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]“Men of the cloth,” have a particular responsibility, regarding events that may soon be. Most of them do not even broach it with their congregations! There is soon to appear a personage whom the Bible calls “the man of sin.” He will have spectacular powers of persuasion, and be a highly charismatic personality. He will be positioned and underpinned by the power of Satan! He will be accepted and welcomed by the major church groupings, (the developing Ecumenical church) with probably the Roman Church leading! He will “negotiate” a peace settlement for Israel, which they will trust. He will eventually become the “Antichrist” of prophecy. It is the responsibility of present church leaders to apprise the congregations of these facts, and to warn about the events which will follow his rise to power! This is not done, and many teachers do not even know of him, and don’t want to know! With the now educated populace, the leaders will not be allowed to continue to pull the wool over their eyes, and the Truth will out, when the Antichrist reveals himself in truth! However, in the mean time, many Priests, Vicars, Pastors etc. will continue to concentrate on the “garden party, the new pews, the repairs needed to the church building, and to getting as much into the Collection Plate as possible.” To this end they regularly skew their “sermons” to berate their congregations, and leave them feeling guilty by the time the “Service” is over.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]They also have the objective of “Ecumenicalism” with the RCC leading, which means negation of Acts 4:12! [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt] Prophecy and prophets;http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Prophecy and prophets.htm (Separate study)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter12.html#V.4 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter12.html#V.9 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter13.html#Six%20hundred%http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter13.html#Six hundred threescore and six[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]0threescore%20and%20six. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter13.html#V.8[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]We are firmly of the opinion that many Teachers and Preachers to some extent are in error, but that if they concentrated on the following, they would be close to the Will of Christ Jesus/Almighty God:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]1) Preach Christ Jesus Crucified for the Sin, and sins of the world’s peoples. [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]Veracity of the Bible: http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Veracity of the Bible.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](Separate study)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]2) Christ Risen, and sitting at the “right hand of the Father” awaiting the time that His enemies are made His footstool.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]3) Christ returning to earth in the future, to collect “His Body,” (The Rapture.) [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Rapture (The);http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Rapture.htm [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]4) Christ saving His “remnant” of Israel, who are close to annihilation. Rev Chapter 8 [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Christ's return for His remnant: (Israel)http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Christ[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]:[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Separate study )[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]5) Christ personally defeating the enemies of Israel at the “last battle,” (Armageddon). http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter11.html[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]V.2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]6) Christ setting up the “Millennial Reign,” on the renewed earth, (not the “New Heaven and Earth of end Millennial.)http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter4.htm#forecasting%20the%20power%20rule%20of%20Christ%20Jesus,%20in%20The%20Millennial.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]7) The “sheep and goat judgement,” when the only criterion will be “how did you treat my brother,” the Jews![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]8) The collection by Christ of all the surviving Jewish people from all over the world, to the Land of Israel, with its new borders, those promised to Abraham and the Patriarchs by Jehovah God. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter12.html#http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter12.html#reborn, new, nation of Israel [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]reborn,%20new,%20nation%20of%20Israel,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter12.html#V.4http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter12.html#V.4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Rev Chapter 10 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] 9) The Millennial Reign of Christ on earth. http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter15.html#V.4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter12.html#V.5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] 10) The “New Heaven and Earth.” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter21.html#V.1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] 11) The “Bride” and the “Bridegroom” united! This failed in OT, due to Israel’s unfaithfulness! [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]The Jew, the Gentile, and Christ:http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/The Jew, the Gentile, and Christ..htm[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Separate study) [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ: http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/The Body of Christ.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Separate study )[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter21.html#V.14 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter19.html#V.7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] 12) The “Eternal State.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]To give the future of Israel, the coming “man of sin,” and the Millennial Reign such a low position, or non-existent position in the preaching priority, also understates the Love and purpose of Almighty God, which is to be seen in the working out of God’s plan for the world’s people: [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Love (ultimate);http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Ultimate Love.htm (Separate study)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter15.html#V.4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The Age of the Earth Controversy: [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](Separate Study)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]If you would like to E-mail us with your comments please [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]click here.mailto:[email protected][/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Or go to [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Subjectindex[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Or [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]www.revelationsmessage.co.uk. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Or [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Go to chapters 1 to 22[/SIZE]

 

[marksman]

Not all churches are false teachers.....if ya don't attend a church......you make satan very happy...happy...happy.

My thoughts are the opposite . if you do attend church satan is very happy as it will keep you out of his way and it will keep you occupied with irrelevancies.

Good comment.
However; we as Christians should if possible gather together for the Lord.
This harder now than at any time since the 2nd world war; as to attend a group which is not honouring of the Word; is tantamount to acknowledging the enemy!!

Yes, yes and yes.

I could not help notice that the verse which says do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together refers to assembling together in homes, not religious buildings. I have just had lunch with a brother in a cafe and we have probably advanced the kingdom more in that hour than in 52 weeks of Sunday morning sermons as we have discussed the present situation and devised plans to advance the kingdom of God in an area God has been speaking to me about.

 

[Floyd]

My thoughts are the opposite . if you do attend church satan is very happy as it will keep you out of his way and it will keep you occupied with irrelevancies.


Yes, yes and yes.

I could not help notice that the verse which says do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together refers to assembling together in homes, not religious buildings. I have just had lunch with a brother in a cafe and we have probably advanced the kingdom more in that hour than in 52 weeks of Sunday morning sermons as we have discussed the present situation and devised plans to advance the kingdom of God in an area God has been speaking to me about.

I understand your/our dilemma.
Floyd.


THE GATHERING TOGETHER OF LIKE MINDED PEOPLE (CHRISTIANS AND OTHERS)


[SIZE=14pt]It is right to state at the outset, that gathering together in the name of the Lord (in Truth) is absolutely the right thing to do.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Unfortunately, there are many different divisions in "Christendom" which creates a serious problem for the sincere[/SIZE] Bible student. There can be no doubt that where the heart and mind are sincere before the Lord and the Almighty, to know Truth, that with due diligence, prayer and effort, much startling and often new information emerges from Scripture.

For the full text; THE GATHERING TOGETHER OF LIKE MINDED PEOPLE (CHRISTIANS AND OTHERS)

 

[babylonisfalling]

[SIZE=10pt]Alternate title [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Choose this day whom you will believe: Scripture and the Holy Spirit, or your church.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Reasons why the churches historically have taught false doctrines[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Satan is [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]“the god/ruler of this age/world” (2 Cor 4:4, John 12:31)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“there is no truth in him ... he is a liar” (John 8:44) [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]… [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]So it was very easy [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]for him to deceive the large church organizations (EOC, RCC, and Protestant)![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many church leaders have been fleshly-minded instead of spiritually-minded,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]so they were easily led by Satan to deviate from God’s New Testament pattern.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many leaders have been primarily interested in your praise and your tithes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]There have always been leaders who are only “hired hands” (John 10:11-13),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and who do not put the welfare of Christ’s church first. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Not everyone who appears to be holy and righteous really are so. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Jesus gave many warnings about being deceived by false teachers![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Satan did not want the churches to continue to have the spiritual power of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]NT times … which was a powerful confirmation of the truth of the gospel,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and which produced many deliverances and healings of all kinds.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many leaders did not want to acknowledge that God had anointed others [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]with powerful spiritual gifts when they had not been! They might look quite[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]spiritually inferior and might risk losing their power, prestige, and their jobs![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many leaders wanted to be in control instead of having God be in control.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]And they did not want those whom God chose to have any spiritual authority.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Increasingly, leaders have taught only popular and non-threatening doctrines.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]### All of the above have resulted in a historically weak and powerless church![/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]• Yes, the time has come when people will not endure sound doctrine; they wish [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]to turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables (2 Tim 4:3-4). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Warning: If you believe lies, they will take dominion over you![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]We are seeing the great apostacy prior to the coming of the antichrist (2 Thes 2:3).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Examples of false doctrines taught in many churches[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- man is not born with an inherited sin nature[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- once saved always saved[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- cessationism (i.e. the 9 spiritual power gifts and the Spirit baptism have ceased)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- pre-tribulation rapture (Jesus gives the true sequence of events in Matthew 24) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Many Christian internet radio programs are adamantly against today’s churches[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]for reasons such as these [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Silence re: the millions of Christians being slaughtered in other countries[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Bowing down to government policy … some accept Islam as another way,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]some give the government personal data about their members, etc.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Teaching a very watered-down and powerless gospel [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Not teaching deliverance from demons (this is important for several reasons)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Teaching a pre-trib rapture (this does not prepare for our coming persecution)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]A suggestion: Start a house church with like-minded serious believers who[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]desire to be totally free to search out spiritual truths without opposition.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This will help you break away from long-held biases and false doctrines.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The bottom line[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Trust Scripture and the Holy Spirit (but not your church) for your salvation![/SIZE]

Christians already trust Scripture and the Holy Spirit for their salvation. And not starting up a house church doesn't mean you not a serious believer.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Don't like your church ?

Then start your own

Before you know it you will be doing the same 1.5 hours Sunday mornings just like all the others.

It is not as easy as it looks

Finding fault with other Christians is much easier by comparison.,

This post gets my nomination for the most intelligent response so far.

[SIZE=10pt]Alternate title [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Choose this day whom you will believe: Scripture and the Holy Spirit, or your church.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Reasons why the churches historically have taught false doctrines[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Satan is [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]“the god/ruler of this age/world” (2 Cor 4:4, John 12:31)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“there is no truth in him ... he is a liar” (John 8:44) [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]… [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]So it was very easy [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]for him to deceive the large church organizations (EOC, RCC, and Protestant)![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many church leaders have been fleshly-minded instead of spiritually-minded,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]so they were easily led by Satan to deviate from God’s New Testament pattern.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many leaders have been primarily interested in your praise and your tithes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]There have always been leaders who are only “hired hands” (John 10:11-13),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and who do not put the welfare of Christ’s church first. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Not everyone who appears to be holy and righteous really are so. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Jesus gave many warnings about being deceived by false teachers![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Satan did not want the churches to continue to have the spiritual power of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]NT times … which was a powerful confirmation of the truth of the gospel,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and which produced many deliverances and healings of all kinds.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many leaders did not want to acknowledge that God had anointed others [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]with powerful spiritual gifts when they had not been! They might look quite[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]spiritually inferior and might risk losing their power, prestige, and their jobs![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Many leaders wanted to be in control instead of having God be in control.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]And they did not want those whom God chose to have any spiritual authority.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Increasingly, leaders have taught only popular and non-threatening doctrines.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]### All of the above have resulted in a historically weak and powerless church![/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]• Yes, the time has come when people will not endure sound doctrine; they wish [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]to turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables (2 Tim 4:3-4). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Warning: If you believe lies, they will take dominion over you![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]We are seeing the great apostacy prior to the coming of the antichrist (2 Thes 2:3).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Examples of false doctrines taught in many churches[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- man is not born with an inherited sin nature[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- once saved always saved[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- cessationism (i.e. the 9 spiritual power gifts and the Spirit baptism have ceased)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]-- pre-tribulation rapture (Jesus gives the true sequence of events in Matthew 24) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Many Christian internet radio programs are adamantly against today’s churches[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]for reasons such as these [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Silence re: the millions of Christians being slaughtered in other countries[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Bowing down to government policy … some accept Islam as another way,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]some give the government personal data about their members, etc.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Teaching a very watered-down and powerless gospel [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Not teaching deliverance from demons (this is important for several reasons)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]• Teaching a pre-trib rapture (this does not prepare for our coming persecution)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]A suggestion: Start a house church with like-minded serious believers who[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]desire to be totally free to search out spiritual truths without opposition.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This will help you break away from long-held biases and false doctrines.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The bottom line[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Trust Scripture and the Holy Spirit (but not your church) for your salvation![/SIZE]

Hi John.

That's a very thorough list and I can't help but agree with many points of false teaching. But as a general point, I don't think people go to churches that teach anything they don't believe. The pretrib rapture teaching is false, but people who go to churches who teach it already believe it anyway, just as an example. When people think of trust in their church, it's more along the lines of believing their offerings won't be embezzled, their kids won't be abused at youth Bible camp, and the pastor isn't leading a double life with a secret mistress. There are trust points far more important to people on a practical level than what the church actually teaches, because what the church teaches is the reason people are attending it to begin with.

 

[shturt678]

Thank you folks for caring!

I seen a long time ago that Churches must teach turn to the faith as in Rom.3:21, etc., but cannot teach turning from Sin (Rom.3:19, 20) to the faith as worshippers won't come back next Sunday thus I really don't blame the Church leaders. This is why we have so many Christians today that lack a fear of God (Rom.3:18), and lack repentance.

Old 'turn from sin' Jack's opinion

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Thank you folks for caring!

I seen a long time ago that Churches must teach turn to the faith as in Rom.3:21, etc., but cannot teach turning from Sin (Rom.3:19, 20) to the faith as worshippers won't come back next Sunday thus I really don't blame the Church leaders. This is why we have so many Christians today that lack a fear of God (Rom.3:18), and lack repentance.

Old 'turn from sin' Jack's opinion

Good point.

It's my view that "I'm just following scripture" is a mask for rebellion. Regardless of one's chosen Christian tradition, God expects us to submit to authority, and more pointedly to IMPERFECT authority, for doing so is submission to God. People who go from church to church, in my view, have an issue with authority and use scripture as an excuse that makes them appear in the right. Then there are those who, after years of going church to church will stop going to church altogether, claiming that none of them are teaching right. But the issue is obedience, and the only way God can cure us of chronic disobedience and rebellion is if we stay put. As long as we keep fleeing, the refining process will never do it's work in us. I say this because I've seen it and more than once, how people run from God all the while claiming it's everyone else who's gone astray. So sad.

 

[shturt678]

Good point.

It's my view that "I'm just following scripture" is a mask for rebellion. Regardless of one's chosen Christian tradition, God expects us to submit to authority, and more pointedly to IMPERFECT authority, for doing so is submission to God. People who go from church to church, in my view, have an issue with authority and use scripture as an excuse that makes them appear in the right. Then there are those who, after years of going church to church will stop going to church altogether, claiming that none of them are teaching right. But the issue is obedience, and the only way God can cure us of chronic disobedience and rebellion is if we stay put. As long as we keep fleeing, the refining process will never do it's work in us. I say this because I've seen it and more than once, how people run from God all the while claiming it's everyone else who's gone astray. So sad.

Have to pretty much agree with you on this one! I fell into another category, they asked me to find another Church due to my asking too many questions...use to surprise me then, now understand they are just running somewhat of a business, and can't 'afford' to have anyone questioning them.

Old Jack, not asking questions anymore in Church or at Bible studies, ie, they now love me to the max...20$ bills whenever I need it. Sorry Lord!

 

[John Zain]

... they asked me to find another Church due to my asking too many questions...
use to surprise me then, now understand they are just running somewhat of a business,
and can't 'afford' to have anyone questioning them.

Just another testimony as to why we should ask permission from the Lord to get out from among them!
Too many Christians just don't get it ... they're being fleeced by the hirelings (as Jesus called them)!

 

[Tex]

Faith is not knowledge, and faith is what saves. Odds are your church isn't a plaything of Satan, as described in the OP. It's probably not perfect, but what person on this planet is perfect? Continue striving toward perfection, including the perfect church, but know that we are limited beings.

 

[aspen]

We are called to be perfect by Christ. We were created to love perfectly - only Christ can bring us back to perfection, which means that someday we will be able to love perfectly just like He did and does.