Redemption ?

[FHII]

FALSE ! Use Scripture to disprove what I said. Wisdom is a creature meaning a created Spirit , therefore is NOT A god. God is NOT created. So now disprove what I said with scripture. I used scripture to support my claims, your turn. Also, 1Sirach is a prophecy, Proverbs also is speaking of wisdom as a she and Solomon also calls wisdom a she. Wisdom is referred to as SHE. Why? With scripture and brains explain?

Just curious... Are you saying Mary was wisdom?

 

[EndTimeWine]

Just curious... Are you saying Mary was wisdom?[/QUOTE
Have you read Proverbs ,Sirach, Ecclesiastes,or the Book of Wisdom?Wisdom was the First work of the Word, and he delighted in her. He poured Her forth upon all His works. I did not write these things. Read the scriptural verses I placed and these works and then we will talk. God Bless!

 

[ScottA]

FALSE ! Use Scripture to disprove what I said. Wisdom is a creature meaning a created Spirit , therefore is NOT A god. God is NOT created. So now disprove what I said with scripture. I used scripture to support my claims, your turn. Also, 1Sirach is a prophecy, Proverbs also is speaking of wisdom as a she and Solomon also calls wisdom a she. Wisdom is referred to as SHE. Why? With scripture and brains explain?

I did.

 

[EndTimeWine]

I did.

No, actually you didn't. And due to your LACK of Wisdom you assert I make Mary a devil. I am simply telling you MAN she is full of GRACE =full of Wisdom and this is so according to the Word! And guess what, the Word proves you wrong. All man's gifts are accompanied by Wisdom and Wisdom dwells with the Holy Spirit. There are several gifts OF THE HOLY SPIRIT one of which is Wisdom. Due to the beauty purposed for Mary we receive of God's Wisdom through Mary. Her soul MAGNIFIES THE LORD? This is her gift. To whom does she magnify the Lord? Her song is a prophetic utterance as well as praise to God for the mighty thing He has done unto her. To magnify: is to give greater clarity to persons seeking to know the Lord and understand HIM better. Like regular magnification the SOURCE IS NOT moved, replaced or changed. Simply put, as technical magnification makes the object we are seeking appear closer to our eyes, spiritual magnification brings our hearts closer to the Lord. This is her purpose. Her ONLY desire is to bring us closer to Christ. Nothing more and nothing less.

Her role, as purposed for her from the inception of Christianity is to bring forth Christ. She is always laboring with man and for man. Now you tell me what scripture I did not use ? And with scripture prove your point. News flash....this will be impossible because the Word can not be used against the Word. And this has nothing to do with PERSONAL interpretation. What does it mean: "My soul magnifies the Lord"? And since we know we can Not put our light under a measure but upon the mantle so that our Light may give light to the WHOLE house. Who does her soul magnify the Lord for? Makes no sense that she would magnify Him for herself only! People need to get over themselves. Are going to be like Lucifer who rejected Wisdom,Ezekiel 28:11-"You WERE the signet of perfection, full of WISDOM and PERFECT in beauty." (WERE), is the operative word. And FULL of Wisdom is what made him perfect in beauty. Not any more. And he fell like lightning from the sky.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, I been viewing a few of these responses, and my God, it's ashame to some of the responses.

Where does Scripture say that Mary was "spiritually dead" until Pentecost?

John 7:37 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)". so Mary nor any other at that time Spiritually alive..

You are way off! First of all when the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and the power of the Most High overshadowed her she was instantly perfected. Her soul was BORN AGAIN and her flesh made immaculate.

another ERROR, see above.
this is the Reason why people are suppose to live by FAITH. Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".
no flesh is perfect. supportive scripture, Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin". and Mary was under the LAW". one more, Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified". I suggest one try the spirit.

Mary was no better than any other woman, she was blessed "AMONG" woman, not blessed above any other woman. for God is no respecter of person.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[EndTimeWine]

GINOLJC, I been viewing a few of these responses, and my God, it's ashame to some of the responses.

John 7:37 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)". so Mary nor any other at that time Spiritually alive..

another ERROR, see above.
this is the Reason why people are suppose to live by FAITH. Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".
no flesh is perfect. supportive scripture, Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin". and Mary was under the LAW". one more, Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified". I suggest one try the spirit.

Mary was no better than any other woman, she was blessed "AMONG" woman, not blessed above any other woman. for God is no respecter of person.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

Oh Please! Your another wisp of smoke in the wind. You twist and misplace scripture. You lack order. You speak chaos. IN CHRIST all flesh is justified. Outside of Christ no flesh is justified. Seems- based on those scriptural verses you still have not REALLY received Christ, Or you would be justified.I guess you can not appreciate His Mercy and Power. Begone! I never knew you worker of iniquity! "Any man who thirst's". Mary thirst's not, nor hungers for She from her yes is with him Luke1:51-55,"He has shown strength with His arm . He has SCATTERED the PROUD in the IMAGINATION of their hearts, He has put DOWN the mighty from their thrones, AND EXALTED those of low degree; He has FILLED the hungry with good things and the rich He has sent empty away. He has helped His servant Israel , in remembrance of HIS MERCY as He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever."

 

[101G]

Oh Please! Your another wisp of smoke in the wind. You twist and misplace scripture. You lack order. You speak chaos. IN CHRIST all flesh is justified. Outside of Christ no flesh is justified. Seems- based on those scriptural verses you still have not REALLY received Christ. Or would be justified.I guess you can not appreciate His Mercy and Power. Begone! I never knew you worker of iniquity!

U said, I lack order. I speak chaos?. so I take that as you have no scripture to refute what I posted..... (smile). well Ignorance, on your part. John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life".

and speaking of the word. the WORD is wisdom, GOD himself, Jesus the Christ. and you ignorantly have no clue why the WORD is reference to "she". well all need to learn. scripture, Exodus 7:19 "And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone". see the word "hand" there. it is the Hebrew word,
H3027 יָד yad (yawd) n-f.
1. a hand (the open one (indicating power, means, direction, etc.), in distinction from H3709, the closed one).

if you will notice H3027 יָד yad (yawd) is a noun and it's "feminine" n-f.
but it's a "male" hand. in Hebrew you need to understand the "FUNCTION" of the word, as to what it is doing, as well as it's meaning. not downing you, just giving you some edification where you want make that mistake again.

Then you said, "Seems- based on those scriptural verses you still have not REALLY received Christ". well let's go back to John 6:63 where the flesh profiteth nothing. let's get those next verses and see if I have recieved Christ or not. verse 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father". so did you come to Jesus first or was you drawn by the Father .......(Smile).

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[ScottA]

No, actually you didn't. And due to your LACK of Wisdom you assert I make Mary a devil. I am simply telling you MAN she is full of GRACE =full of Wisdom and this is so according to the Word! And guess what, the Word proves you wrong. All man's gifts are accompanied by Wisdom and Wisdom dwells with the Holy Spirit. There are several gifts OF THE HOLY SPIRIT one of which is Wisdom. Due to the beauty purposed for Mary we receive of God's Wisdom through Mary. Her soul MAGNIFIES THE LORD? This is her gift. To whom does she magnify the Lord? Her song is a prophetic utterance as well as praise to God for the mighty thing He has done unto her. To magnify: is to give greater clarity to persons seeking to know the Lord and understand HIM better. Like regular magnification the SOURCE IS NOT moved, replaced or changed. Simply put, as technical magnification makes the object we are seeking appear closer to our eyes, spiritual magnification brings our hearts closer to the Lord. This is her purpose. Her ONLY desire is to bring us closer to Christ. Nothing more and nothing less.

Her role, as purposed for her from the inception of Christianity is to bring forth Christ. She is always laboring with man and for man. Now you tell me what scripture I did not use ? And with scripture prove your point. News flash....this will be impossible because the Word can not be used against the Word. And this has nothing to do with PERSONAL interpretation. What does it mean: "My soul magnifies the Lord"? And since we know we can Not put our light under a measure but upon the mantle so that our Light may give light to the WHOLE house. Who does her soul magnify the Lord for? Makes no sense that she would magnify Him for herself only! People need to get over themselves. Are going to be like Lucifer who rejected Wisdom,Ezekiel 28:11-"You WERE the signet of perfection, full of WISDOM and PERFECT in beauty." (WERE), is the operative word. And FULL of Wisdom is what made him perfect in beauty. Not any more. And he fell like lightning from the sky.

I am not going to go back and show you the scriptures and print them in red for you. You preach another gospel, which is not of God. In the end, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[EndTimeWine]

I am not going to go back and show you the scriptures and print them in red for you. You preach another gospel, which is not of God. In the end, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Not from GOD? HMM? Yet all that I quote is from the Word and you HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DISPUTE it. Deny, yes, dispute or find fault, NO! Put anything you want in RED, what does it mean to MAGNIFY THE LORD? This from scripture of course, not a NEW GOSPEL. So,( Condemnation of Souls), explain?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Okay...no wonder we are at odds. You do not know the truth and need a lesson:

All who are born of women are born of the fallen nature of Adam and Eve...even Jesus. If He were not, His death would have been on sacrifice.

Soooooo, you're saying that Jesus sinned and fell short of the glory of God?? That is outright heresy.
Care to explain that one??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well I agree Harod was a very unreasonable man... But I don't think he would be so unreasonable to get upset after giving the edict. I mean, even for an unreasonable man that's weird.

Well there may have been one scallywag who didn't care... But after Harod got upset and did what he did... Id think that 99.44% were upset.

If you are looking at this as a minute by minute report, yes you are right. If you look at the overall picture i'd like to think all of Jerusalem was upset.

You should check the context of that verse. The easiest thing to prove is that Satan wasn't included. He was talking about Jews and gentiles. Not angels, fallen angels or Satan. Deeper understanding shows that he wasn't speaking of all men. He was speaking of Israel.

He was speaking of regions, not people. People in all the regions of Jerusalem, Judea and the region of the Jordan river. Sometimes when the Bible speaks of Jerusalem and Judea it is speaking of people. Sometimes its speaking of regions... Geographical areas. This is one of those times its speaking of a geographical area.

Well what the verse says is slightly different from what you said. But... I will give you that one.

All his [Caesar's] world. Yes. Every single one of them in his world? Absolutely. But yea... I will give you that one too.

But what you are doing is scowering the Bible to find a precedence to support your point. I am not against that but it doesn't always work. I never said the Bible never speaks in general or "inclusively". But just because in one point you may find "inclusive" language doesn't mean it applies to every situation.

Now what this has to do with anything we are discussing... I can't remember.

First of all - you're still dodging the fact that Herod and "ALL" of Jerusalem were upset - BEFORE the edict to kill the male children went out.

Secondly - ONLY the male children of the region of Bethlehem were to be killed, NOT Jerusalem.
The narrative that "ALL" Jerusalem was disturbed is simply a generalization and NOT completely inclusive of every single person.

Finally - we were discussing that "Al"l doesn't always mean "ALL" in Scripture. Rom. 3 is a generalization - just like the other verses I cited. Your problem is not that you can't see the context of Rom. 3 - it's that you won't see it because it destroys your pre-conceived Protestant notions about Mary.

 

[BreadOfLife]

GINOLJC, I been viewing a few of these responses, and my God, it's ashame to some of the responses.

John 7:37 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)". so Mary nor any other at that time Spiritually alive..

another ERROR, see above.
this is the Reason why people are suppose to live by FAITH. Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".
no flesh is perfect. supportive scripture, Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin". and Mary was under the LAW". one more, Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified". I suggest one try the spirit.

Mary was no better than any other woman, she was blessed "AMONG" woman, not blessed above any other woman. for God is no respecter of person.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

And when you can show me ONE other person in all of Scripture who is described as "Kecharitomene" - you might have a point.
Unfortunately for you - there isn't one. Mary was completely and enduringly endowed with grace. That's what "Kecharitomene" means. It is a completed action with a permanent result.

So, EVERYBODY was "Spiritually dead" before Pentecost??
That's NOT what the Word of God says . . .
Job 33:4
The spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalm 143:10
Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.

Exodus 31:3
And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts.

Genesis 41:38
So Pharaoh asked them, “Can we find anyone like this man (Joseph), one in whom is the spirit of God?”

Numbers 27:18
So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay your hand on him.

1 Sam. 10:6-7
The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you (Saul) in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.”

2 Samuel 23:2
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me (David); his word was on my tongue."


Shall I go on - or have you had enough?

 

[FHII]

First of all - you're still dodging the fact that Herod and "ALL" of Jerusalem were upset - BEFORE the edict to kill the male children went out.

Secondly - ONLY the male children of the region of Bethlehem were to be killed, NOT Jerusalem.
The narrative that "ALL" Jerusalem was disturbed is simply a generalization and NOT completely inclusive of every single person.

Finally - we were discussing that "Al"l doesn't always mean "ALL" in Scripture. Rom. 3 is a generalization - just like the other verses I cited. Your problem is not that you can't see the context of Rom. 3 - it's that you won't see it because it destroys your pre-conceived Protestant notions about Mary.

First of all, I didn't dodge Herod being upset... I fully discussed it. I put it in proper perspective.

Second, Romans 3 means what it says. You are trying to find a case study to support your viewpoints but you haven't. Case studies don't always fit all cases.

Third... What are my notions about Mary? Tell me what they are.

 

[ScottA]

Not from GOD? HMM? Yet all that I quote is from the Word and you HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DISPUTE it. Deny, yes, dispute or find fault, NO! Put anything you want in RED, what does it mean to MAGNIFY THE LORD? This from scripture of course, not a NEW GOSPEL. So,( Condemnation of Souls), explain?

You are jumping around.

I did dispute and showed you your fault, things that have been added and misinterpreted and taught by men. But, no, I will not go back.

As for your question of the "condemnation of souls", where did you get this, and what of it do you ask?

 

[ScottA]

Soooooo, you're saying that Jesus sinned and fell short of the glory of God?? That is outright heresy.
Care to explain that one??

I did not say that He sinned and fell short of the glory of God. (Wow, I said that without the use of bold letters.)

On the contrary, I said Jesus was born of a woman who was born after the fallen line of Adam and Eve - He was born into sin, but committed no sin. Thus, His sacrifice was without spot or blemish.

But the point is...that would not have included Mary, as there is only One begotten.

 

[101G]

And when you can show me ONE other person in all of Scripture who is described as "Kecharitomene" - you might have a point.
Unfortunately for you - there isn't one. Mary was completely and enduringly endowed with grace. That's what "Kecharitomene" means. It is a completed action with a permanent result.

So, EVERYBODY was "Spiritually dead" before Pentecost??
That's NOT what the Word of God says . . .

I say, what a work of nothing. you said, "when you can show me ONE other person in all of Scripture who is described as "Kecharitomene" - you might have a point".

here's my point. Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD".
here "GRACE" it's the Hebrew word,
H2580 חֵן chen (chane) n-m.
1. graciousness.
2. (subjective) kindness, favor.
3. (objective) beauty.
KJV: favour, grace(-ious), pleasant, precious, (well-)favoured.
Root(s): H2603

Well Favored is Highly favoured" ... so you're still dead, not to know that.

in my next post I'll address the rest of your scripture.

 

[EndTimeWine]

You are jumping around.

I did dispute and showed you your fault, things that have been added and misinterpreted and taught by men. But, no, I will not go back.

As for your question of the "condemnation of souls", where did you get this, and what of it do you ask?

Jumping around? I am STILL on the same scriptures and subject. But now, off the issue of you. You bring nothing to the table.

 

[101G]

So, EVERYBODY was "Spiritually dead" before Pentecost??
That's NOT what the Word of God says . . .
Job 33:4
The spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalm 143:10
Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.

Exodus 31:3
And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts.

Genesis 41:38
So Pharaoh asked them, “Can we find anyone like this man (Joseph), one in whom is the spirit of God?”

Numbers 27:18
So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay your hand on him.

1 Sam. 10:6-7
The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you (Saul) in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.”

2 Samuel 23:2
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me (David); his word was on my tongue."


Shall I go on - or have you had enough?

classic example of one who is fatuous in the scriptures. either they do not know, nor understand the difference between being "FILLED" with the Spirit, and being "BORN" of the Spirit.

let me make it simple, really simple. born of the Spirit is permanent, being filled is temporary..
Job 33:4 “The spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life”.
the Spirit/Yeshua made all of us… that’s nothing new. And he, Jesus/Yeshua gave all of us life by his breath… this have nothing to do with being Spiritually alive...

Psalm 143:10 Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.
Teach me to do your will?. well we have a HISTORY of people keeping God will. was not the covenant God will. so they keep that, I have scripture that say different. may, may, may your good Spirit lead me on level ground. may is a condition, which is "IF" and that's if you obey.

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts.
All people have abilities… and gifts from God.

Genesis 41:38 So Pharaoh asked them, “Can we find anyone like this man (Joseph), one in whom is the spirit of God?”
well Daniel hadn't came on the scene yet. but here he is.Daniel 5:12 "Forasmuch as an excellent spirit, and knowledge, and understanding, interpreting of dreams, and shewing of hard sentences, and dissolving of doubts, were found in the same Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar: now let Daniel be called, and he will shew the interpretation.

Numbers 27:18 So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay your hand on him.
1 Sam. 10:6-7 The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you (Saul) in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.”
2 Samuel 23:2 “The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me (David); his word was on my tongue."

These scriptures above have nothing to do with being Spiritually alive to God. John 4:14 "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life".
now which one of these had everlasting life at the time they was living?. not one because the Spirit was not yet given, scripture, John 7:38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

Shall I go on - or have you had enough?

My God this is almost comical.

shall I go on...

Peace in Christ Jesus/Yeshua

 

[Truth]

it is stated 'by His blood' we are redeemed but it is not clearly stated or understood where He got His human blood from - any comments - twinc

In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, they were perfect, until!!!! we all know that one. After they were exiled from Eden they were no longer perfect, they became completely mortal. having in their blood the curse of knowing Good & Evil OK! So when Marry was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, God Created within her a new Adam, without the blood curse. It is common knowledge that the blood of the mother never mixes with the blood of the unborn child. Mary was of the linage of David, through her Father and so was Joseph her husband, through Nathan, Jesus's blood was a recreation of the beginning, Not only did Jesus not transgress the Commandments of God, but had sinless blood coursing through His Veins. His death paid the price for the transgression of Israel, and the whole world, all that will believe. Read where Abraham made the covenant with God, where He divides the 5 animals, a blood covenant, God is the only one that walks through the blood, Abraham was in a trance, so God took both sides of the covenant. Stating that if I God breaks this covenant may I be as these animals, also if You Abraham or your decedents break this covenant then I God [Jesus] may be as these animals, Jesus paid the price just as Issac was a shadow of His Sacrifice! Abraham's Son--God's Son! Also the Life is in the Blood!

 

[twinc]

I did not say that He sinned and fell short of the glory of God. (Wow, I said that without the use of bold letters.)

On the contrary, I said Jesus was born of a woman who was born after the fallen line of Adam and Eve - He was born into sin, but committed no sin. Thus, His sacrifice was without spot or blemish.

But the point is...that would not have included Mary, as there is only One begotten.

you say and others say "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" - I see here as elsewhere you wish to leave Jesus out as and when you see fit - was Mary then not a new creation - twinc