Redemption ?

[FHII]

because she was willing. listen highly favoured was in the GREETING. but the angel said, Luke 1:30 "And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God". that's why she was highly favoured. Luke 1:38 "And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her". Just like Noah he was willing to obey God. she was only chosen by God just like us to do something. listen this word is used two times in the bible, Ephesians 1:6 "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved".

now for that word "Highly Favioured.
G5487 χαριτόω charitoo (cha-riy-to'-ō) v.
1. to grace (i.e. indue with special honor).
2. to graciously favor (influentially).
[from G5485]
KJV: make accepted, be highly favoured

now the Hebrew, Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD".
H2580 חֵן chen (chane) n-m.
1. graciousness.
2. (subjective) kindness, favor.
3. (objective) beauty.
[from H2603]
KJV: favour, grace(-ious), pleasant, precious, (well-)favoured.

so again Mary is no more Special than any other woman. only in her selection of birthing the body of the Lord. THAT'S GOD'S CHOICE. no ours.... ;)

Peace in Christ Yeshua/Jesus

Well said. I agree with everything you said and like the way you said it.

To Mary's credit she did stick with the plan and overall (despite a few faults...) she was a great woman. Its really a shame that anyone has to debate her merits... But reasonable people are forced to when others raise her to near god-like status by claiming she was a co-redeemer, she never sinned, she remained a virgin and some even say she never died but ascended into heaven.

 

[ScottA]

NOOO SCOTTA. The John 21:22 you are misrepresenting was an answer to Peter concerning John as to how John shall die . And Christ replied"If it is My will that he remain until I come=( SECOND COMING), what is that to you? And it spread amongst the brethren that this apostle was not to die. And John says, "yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is My will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?" As I said in previous post John is one of the witnesses.

My point was the same as His - exactly. So, if you want to say No, that is up to you. If you do not see the correlation...that much is up to God. But if you are taking notes, we can review them on the other side where the truth will be undisputed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

TWO more dolt, meaning also a play on words, oxymorons? LOL. oh well, now a juxtaposition. "Spiritually dead" what do it mean? answer, The act of God whereby He makes us alive from spiritual death is called regeneration. was Mary regenerated? NO, because the Holy Spirit have not been GIVEN yet. yes one can be filled, like full of GRACE, but the Spirit do not DWELL in a dead house permanently, hence the THE REASON FOR regeneration.... LOL, how marionette can one, or in this case, two be...... (smile).

just remember filling, and dwelling, filling, and dwelling, filling, and dwelling, filling, and dwelling ..... hey that rhymes....
juxtaposition (sorry for the big word )..... lol. oh man this is too much fun.
Peace in Jesus/Yeshua the Christ, who fills the spiritually dead.

Not ONLY was Mary regenerated - she was ohad the Holy Spirit come upon her and the Power of God overshadow her when she conceived Jesus (Luke 1:35).

I suggest you study the Scriptures before posting . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

because she was willing. listen highly favoured was in the GREETING. but the angel said, Luke 1:30 "And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God". that's why she was highly favoured. Luke 1:38 "And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her". Just like Noah he was willing to obey God. she was only chosen by God just like us to do something. listen this word is used two times in the bible, Ephesians 1:6 "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved".

now for that word "Highly Favioured.
G5487 χαριτόω charitoo (cha-riy-to'-ō) v.
1. to grace (i.e. indue with special honor).
2. to graciously favor (influentially).
[from G5485]
KJV: make accepted, be highly favoured

now the Hebrew, Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD".
H2580 חֵן chen (chane) n-m.
1. graciousness.
2. (subjective) kindness, favor.
3. (objective) beauty.
[from H2603]
KJV: favour, grace(-ious), pleasant, precious, (well-)favoured.

so again Mary is no more Special than any other woman. only in her selection of birthing the body of the Lord. THAT'S GOD'S CHOICE. no ours....

Peace in Christ Yeshua/Jesus

And I already destroyed this Scripturally-bankrupt position back in post #83:

There were many people in Scripture that were favored or "highly" favored - yet NONE of them were Kecharitomene like Mary.

She was completely and enduringly endowed with grace. That's what "Kecharitomene" means. It is a completed action with a permanentresult. Do your homework . . .

 

[101G]

Not ONLY was Mary regenerated - she was ohad the Holy Spirit come upon her and the Power of God overshadow her when she conceived Jesus (Luke 1:35).

I suggest you study the Scriptures before posting . . .

you sound like a broken record.

ok, I'll give a chance to redeem yourself. the Holy Spirit come upon her and the Power of God overshadow her when she conceived Jesus (Luke 1:35). if the Holy Spirit conceived the child is not he, the Holy Spirit the Father yes or no. please answer.

now don't make a clod of yourself, used informal. ......:)

Peace in Christ Jesus

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did not exclude Jesus from "all", but only from those who sin. As I said, He was born into sin, but sinned not.

Exactly - which makes YOUR interpretation of Rom. 3 incorrect because it says ALL have sinned and ALL have fallen short of the glory of God

 

[BreadOfLife]

you sound like a broken record.

ok, I'll give a chance to redeem yourself. the Holy Spirit come upon her and the Power of God overshadow her when she conceived Jesus (Luke 1:35). if the Holy Spirit conceived the child is not he, the Holy Spirit the Father yes or no. please answer.

now don't make a clod of yourself, used informal. ......

Peace in Christ Jesus

Apparently you didn't READ the entire verse:
Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

What part of that verse are you having difficulty with??

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL
This is yet another case where you refuse to acknowledge what I wrote and I am not going to repeat it.

As for Mary sinning, well sure I believe she sinned. But the focus this time around is that I don't believe she was spiritually dead either until the day of Pentacost. I can prove that by the Bible but I am not going to give any of the Nonprotestants any favors today.

Frankly this is just another, "the Bible doesn't mean what it says" spin job. If someone wants to discus it or even debate it in a reasonable manner I will do so. But I am not going to bother with the whole Nonprotestant vs protestant debate.

"Spin job"?
How so?

I asked YOU - not the Bible if babies were guilty of committing sin.
I asked YOU - not the Bible if the unborn were guilty of committing sin.
I asked YOU - not the Bible if Jesus was guilty of committing sin.

If you can't answer the questions - just say so and be done with it.
As for for Mary not sinning - you don't have to believe it. But then' you'd you have to explain her title and position as "Kecharitomene."

 

[101G]

Apparently you didn't READ the entire verse:
Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

What part of that verse are you having difficulty with??

Strike 4, and you’re really out. can't answer a straight question to the point. Like the apostle Paul said, “turn one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh”. because not only you don’t know heavenly things, you don’t know earthly things. U will be Ignored from now on. (REV 2:2b), so true.

see U.... :cool:

 

[BreadOfLife]

yes, your feet and head are still dead........ . Noah was H2580 חֵן chen (chane) the same thing in Hebrew, .... LOL,
see, Mary was not the first to be "highly favored". so you again are rebuked. just like the Lord said, Read Rev 2:2........

I hate to burst your bubble, my linguistically-challenged friend - but there is NO exact translation of the Greek, "Kecharitomene" into Hebrew.
For Noah to be called "Kecharitomene", he would have to be described NOT as "highly favoured", but as, ". . . completely and enduringly endowed with grace, being a completed action with a permanent result."
That's what Kecharitomene means, Einstein.

Your entire argument about Noah is completely smashed by the original languages of the Old and New Testaments.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Strike 4, and you’re really out. can't answer a straight question to the point. Like the apostle Paul said, “turn one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh”. because not only you don’t know heavenly things, you don’t know earthly things. U will be Ignored from now on. (REV 2:2b), so true.

see U....

And that's what happens when unstable and ignorant people twist Scripture to their own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16).
Luke 1:35 clearly states that Mary was impregnated by the Power of the Most High.

 

[twinc]

Strike 4, and you’re really out. can't answer a straight question to the point. Like the apostle Paul said, “turn one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh”. because not only you don’t know heavenly things, you don’t know earthly things. U will be Ignored from now on. (REV 2:2b), so true.

see U.... :cool:

doubt it - cant see how you are both going to end up in the same place - if so maybe even heaven would be hell imho - twinc

 

[EndTimeWine]

Well said. I agree with everything you said and like the way you said it.

To Mary's credit she did stick with the plan and overall (despite a few faults...) she was a great woman. Its really a shame that anyone has to debate her merits... But reasonable people are forced to when others raise her to near god-like status by claiming she was a co-redeemer, she never sinned, she remained a virgin and some even say she never died but ascended into heaven.

Aren't we haughty and proud. Accolades for your credit given Mary. PLEASE! Merely talking about her for you Protestant- Calvinist, is putting her in god status. But since you bring it up. John10:22 Christ reveals he is =to God, ironically this was revealed in the Portico of the temple - which is on the east side of the temple and is known to us as Solomon's Porch ,and is the WOMAN'S portion of the temple. I won't get too deep for you concerning the knowledge of the God head, it tends to break Protestants and hurt their brains. But anyways.... Christ says, after-John 10:33 which says- The Jews answered Him, " We stone you for no good work but for blasphemy, because you being a man, make yourself God." Jesus answered them, ' Is it not written in your law, "I said you are gods to whom THE WORD OF GOD CAME ( and scripture can not be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming', because I said , I am the Son of God?

All those to whom the WORD comes which was purposed for the Jews first, are gods to those whom the Word has not come. Scripture can not be broken. And it is plural in scripture.

I promised I would not break your brain but, I have to. This status is only accomplished through the God head Christ- which the body is attached too. We as the body work as God before the world. That is , work His purpose. And Mary is a god to the world through her son as well. Veneration of the saints is to esteem the body in Christ. It is positive reinforcement for the body of Christ. This is so because the fullness of deity is IN CHRIST who we are in. VENERATION or ESTEEM as scripture states.
1 Thessalonians 5:12-13King James Version (KJV)
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

Are Mary and the Apostles labouring among us still? Are they over us? Do they admonish us? Do you esteem Mary VERY HIGHLY in love for the sake of her work? How about the apostle's work? Is Esteem and Veneration the same? Veneration= deep respectful love, adoration- Esteem= respectful adoration= love and respect. Look it up. Further, that you may not choke to much, we are as gods in the meaning of the word concerning knowledge. We have the supreme knowledge which is Christ, and in essence makes us demigods to the world. God has taken away from the pagans that which is designated for only Christ and His Body,Worship! For the fullness of Deity is in Christ. No matter how you turn it the true God is being glorified at all times through the Saints.

 

[EndTimeWine]

There is much more to clear up for the Protestants, the rosary, intercession of the Saints all is scriptural . The Protestants are a mess. Just speaking the truth. And we have been given a way to test spirits as well. We can know if apparitions are true through the Hand Book of knowledge passed down to us from the elders and apostle the BIBLE= BASIC INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LEAVING EARTH!
B I B L E. God Bless!

 

[Nomad]

Mary is described as "Kecharitomene" - a title that is given ONLY to her.
NOBODY else is describes in ALL of Scripture as being "Kecharitomene."

First of all, there's absolutely nothing in the context of Luke 1:28 to suggest that "kecharitomene" is being used a title. It's a verb -- the perfect passive participle form of the verb "charitoo." See the letters I underlined in bold type. Second, the aorist tense form of the same verb is used by Paul of himself and the Ephesians in Ephesians 1:6 -- "echaritosen." Same verb, different grammatical construction, i.e. tense, voice, person etc. Both indicate that the individuals in question received grace/favor. The difference is merely one of emphasis. The passive voice of kecharitomene indicates that the subject of the verb (Mary) is the recipient of the action of the verb, whereas the active voice of echaritosen indicates the the subject of the verb (God) performs the action of the verb. It's simply different ways of saying the same thing.

 

[ScottA]

Exactly - which makes YOUR interpretation of Rom. 3 incorrect because it says ALL have sinned and ALL have fallen short of the glory of God

Your lawyer speak says more about you than me.

 

[FHII]

"Spin job"?
How so?

I explained already. If you need a summary or a clearer explanation I will obligue. But if you ignored it the first time... Why should I bother?

I asked YOU - not the Bible if babies were guilty of committing sin.

If they are in the flesh they are sinners. Thats what the Bible says. Besides, Mary didn't stay a baby.

I asked YOU - not the Bible if the unborn were guilty of committing sin

If they are in the flesh they are sinners. Besides, Mary was born.

I asked YOU - not the Bible if Jesus was guilty of committing s

You got me there. The Bible notes Jesus as being the only exception. Besides, Mary wasn't Jesus.

"Oh... I asked you not the Bible!" well, i believe what the Bible says.

As for for Mary not sinning - you don't have to believe it. But then' you'd you have to explain her title and position as "Kecharitomene."

She was full of grace? Grace is meant to cover sins. Her sins were covered.

People who are under grace still sin in the flesh. Its just that they are forgiven, covered and not imputed.

 

[101G]

First of all, there's absolutely nothing in the context of Luke 1:28 to suggest that "kecharitomene" is being used a title. It's a verb -- the perfect passive participle form of the verb "charitoo." See the letters I underlined in bold type. Second, the aorist tense form of the same verb is used by Paul of himself and the Ephesians in Ephesians 1:6 -- "echaritosen." Same verb, different grammatical construction, i.e. tense, voice, person etc. Both indicate that the individuals in question received grace/favor. The difference is merely one of emphasis. The passive voice of kecharitomene indicates that the subject of the verb (Mary) is the recipient of the action of the verb, whereas the active voice of echaritosen indicates the the subject of the verb (God) performs the action of the verb. It's simply different ways of saying the same thing.

on point

 

[aspen]

Mary needed a Savior just like the rest of humanity. The Catholic Church teaches this.

 

[BreadOfLife]

First of all, there's absolutely nothing in the context of Luke 1:28 to suggest that "kecharitomene" is being used a title. It's a verb -- the perfect passive participle form of the verb "charitoo." See the letters I underlined in bold type. Second, the aorist tense form of the same verb is used by Paul of himself and the Ephesians in Ephesians 1:6 -- "echaritosen." Same verb, different grammatical construction, i.e. tense, voice, person etc. Both indicate that the individuals in question received grace/favor. The difference is merely one of emphasis. The passive voice of kecharitomene indicates that the subject of the verb (Mary) is the recipient of the action of the verb, whereas the active voice of echaritosen indicates the the subject of the verb (God) performs the action of the verb. It's simply different ways of saying the same thing.

First of all - Immanuel (God is with us) is a verb and is ALSO a title.

Secondly, the root word is used several times in the NT - but not in the sense that it is completely and enduringly endowed or indicating a permanent result. You'll have to do better than that . . .