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Featured rejecting Jesus Christ is different from the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by GerhardEbersoehn, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    The blasphemies against the Holy Spirit are blasphemies against the Holy Spirit who “BREATHED ALL SCRIPTURE”. Jesus repeatedly and directly referred to the Jews’ systemic corruptness in REJECTING THESE SCRIPTURE-PROOFS OF HIS DIVINITY AND LORDSHIP.

    So for example in Luke 16 where Jesus told the Jews (verses 29-31 to 17:2), “He that hateth Me hateth my Father also”. The circumstances and implications—the context—, is virtually identical the circumstances and implications in the Scriptures mentioning the “words (of blasphemy) against the Spirit”. The Father who was in heaven above, and the Holy Spirit that was in the Scriptures beneath -- both hidden, almightily testify and witness to Jesus’ as GOD openly among them. Therefore the Jews focussed their hate on Jesus, because He and the Father and the Holy Spirit are One, God, and they knew it but would have nothing of it. Jesus explained and proved to them that HE IS GOD WHOSE SPIRIT SPEAKS IN THE SCRIPTURES, WHOSE SPIRIT WITNESSES AGAISNT ALL UNBELIEF AND GODLESS UNBELIEVERS.

    Compare the Jew, John the Baptist, and the Pharisees and others, and contrast the peace and joy of John who believed the Witness of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures, with the hate and envy of those Jews who did not. (John 3:30-36), “You search the Scriptures” as if it meant eternal life to you”, Jesus told the Jews, “meanwhile they testify of Me” – that “I AM THE LIFE” – but therefore you will kill Me rather than believe in Me … believe in Me for your sins to be forgiven and you could live, but you would rather die and your sins become unpardonable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  2. Wrangler

    Wrangler Active Member

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    Sad that trinitarians repeat claims unfounded. Many prophets rebuked people for the exact same thing. Doesn’t mean these other prophets were any more divine than Jesus.

    That you lead with such s specious and circumspect verse tells the story of what you are pushing.

    Then there is the substitution attempt. IF Jesus were divine he would not have said so many things proving he wasn’t. Trinitarianism rejects the very words of Jesus, who said God is greater than he, knows more than he, and blaspheming the Spirit of God is a worse sin than if against Jesus.

    None of this supports the co-equal claim. Most significantly, Jesus died. Scripture tells us in Acts that God, in his unitarian nature, raised the man Jesus from the dead. These verses are not circumspect, figurative or metaphorical.
     
  3. Wrangler

    Wrangler Active Member

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    See what you did there? You can’t have your cake and it it too.

    The flip side is what this thread is about; IF Jesus were Divine, there would not be 2 categories of sin.

    Rather than man-made dogma, I take Jesus at his word, not God, and blaspheming Jesus is consequently in a different category than blaspheming the Spirit of God.

    Trinitarian explanations use such tortured logic regarding this verse as to be inexplicable.
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    That is easily explained by the doctrine of the hypostatic union. Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man.

    The Father is greater as concerning His humanity; as concerning His Deity they are equal (John 5:18).
     
  5. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    How absolutely and completely WRONG have I been! Because – as I for the first time in my life now have come to understand –, Jesus' Messiahship, his Incarnation, his Prophetic and Priestly, and above all, Jesus' DEITY, LORDSHIP and DIVINE AND KINGLY status and office, everything that makes Him “JESUS, SAVIOUR OF HIS PEOPLE”, are the very things which sinning with blasphemies of "words spoken against the Holy Spirit" OF THE BIBLE, IS!

    Just reckon, the very last occasion of the Jew’s making themselves guilty of this, the unforgiveable sin (though o, SO FIRGIVEABLE!), was when they shouted: “WE HAVE NO KING—CRUCIFY HIM—WE WANT HIS BLOOD UPON US” RATHER THAN HAVE HIM AND HAVE LIFE!

    This, brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, is what the sin against the Holy Spirit of God in the Scriptures “CONCERNING THE CHRIST” meant EVERY TIME when Jesus had spoken and ACTED “LORD, GOD AND KING”, and that is what it “TODAY WHEN YOU HEAR HIS VOICE” IN SCRIPTURE, means— “ACCORDING to the Scriptures” means, and, is, namely, what Paul said it was: “the most important thing of all”.

    Therefore do not let yourselves be intimidated by false churches and bogus prophets with this false and ROMAN CATHOLIC doctrine of an ‘unforgiveable sin’, is my prayer for you as for myself.

    Lord our God, be merciful to us the sheep of your Flock : IN JESUS’ NAME. Amen
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  6. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    and this is exactly I WAS SO RIGHT about that while Jesus is GOD, there is only ONE <category of sin>.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  7. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    The wrong interpretation very well stated. The needed focus on the issue gets adjusted more definitively here. You create an image of <<two categories of sin>>, as does Wrangler.
    JBF wrote another version, <<justbyfaith said: He is saying that the person who has been born of God has made a 180-degree turn away from sin and towards righteousness; so that he now commits sins less and less and may even have come to the point where he doesn't sin any longer.>> <<justbyfaith said: But I feel led to say to you that it seems to me that you are resisting the Holy Spirit; in that He is knocking on the door of your heart (Revelation 3:20) and you don't want to let Him in: and you justify that by saying that He does not come to dwell within human beings.>>

    You and Wrangler sort sins into human and divine <categories>; JBF - SDA, sort sins into torque <categories> of headstrongness or <resistance>.

    God did not tell Adam and Eve they could sin one or the other category of sin or neither. The first man's sin was deadly because it was sin against GOD. That never has changed. Sin is of one category or kind, the deadly sins. And JUST SO the antidote for all sin is SINGLE: God the Son of God become God the Son of Man : GOD TO DIE IN SINNERS' -- ALL sinners', place-- JEWS as well. But they would have none of it. THEY WERE NOT THAT BAD; THEY WERE BETTER. Sin for me is not without hope; but for you? If you, sin, you shall die! I am better than you.

    Pride could be the prince of sins, the unforgiveable sin, if he be crowned King instead of the Meek and Lowly Jesus Son of Man.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  8. BARNEY BRIGHT

    BARNEY BRIGHT Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to believe that rejection of Jesus Christ is the unforgivable sin because no one knows why a person does such a thing. God is the one who can read minds and hearts not us so if a person rejects Jesus Christ right on up to death does that mean that person will not get a resurrection we don't know, that's something only the True God knows.
    I don't believe that anyone is without sin. Even if they have accepted Jesus Christ in their lives for anyone to say they are so perfect they are without sin, they don't know what they're talking about. We all die and the reason for that is sin. Eternal life isn't promised to us in this wicked world we're living in.
    God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
    The tree was a fitting symbol of the right to determine or set the standards of good and bad, which right God reserved for Himself by forbidding Adam to eat thereof. This prohibition emphasized man’s proper dependence on God as his Sovereign Ruler. By obedience the first man and woman could demonstrate that they respected God’s right to make known to them what was “good” (divinely approved) and what was “bad” (divinely condemned). Disobedience on their part would have signified a rebellion against God’s sovereignty. This understanding of matters is acknowledged in a footnote of the modern Catholic translation known as The Jerusalem Bible: “The first sin was an attack on God’s sovereignty, a sin of pride.”
    Simple as the command was, it could reveal what might be expected of the first man and woman in the way of loyalty. This is in harmony with the principle enunciated by Jesus Christ: “The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.” (Luke 16:10) Both Adam and Eve had the capability of maintaining perfect obedience.
    For us today it is vital that we exert ourselves so as not to fall into the same line of reasoning as did Adam and Eve. Though Adam was not deceived, the rebellion of his wife apparently caused him to lose faith in his heavenly Father’s ability to work out matters to his blessing. Seemingly he even took offense against Jehovah God, saying: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree and so I ate.” (Gen. 3:12) As for Eve, she was completely deceived. Through the serpent’s words, Eve came to believe that Jehovah God was keeping her low and in ignorance. Thus she came to view disobedience, independence from God, as the way to happiness.

    Remembering that what Adam and Eve did in eating an actual, but divinely forbidden, fruit signified rebellion against Jehovah’s sovereignty, we should want to make it our determination to remain loyal subjects of our Creator. Never do we want to be deceived into thinking that God’s laws are unjust and not in our best interests. Regardless of what circumstances may develop, we, unlike Adam, ought to keep before us the fact that Jehovah God can and will bless his devoted servants. We have the Biblical assurance, confirmed by numerous examples throughout human history, that Jehovah God is the “rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.”—Heb. 11:6.
     
  9. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    There is no <<unforgivable sin>>. You did not invent that abomination; the Roman Catholics did -- long before your cult existed.

    There is no <<unforgivable sin>> 1John 1:7 Hebrews 9:26 John 1:29. That <<no one knows why a person does such a thing>> is begging the question whether or not <<rejection of Jesus Christ is the unforgivable sin>>. You cannot say it is <<because no one knows why>>. That no one knows why Is no reason for doing the impossible or possible; it means nothing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Everyone will get a resurrection (Daniel 12:2); whether unto life or unto condemnation (John 5:29).

    If anyone rejects faith in Jesus Christ, they are already condemned (John 3:18) and will not be raised unto life if they die in that state.

    And it was not committed by Adam and Eve, but by satan.
     
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  11. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    This :<<if a person rejects Jesus Christ right on up to death does that mean that person will not get a resurrection:>> OF REDEEMED LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, is a plain contrary SCRIPTURE fantastic LIE of yours not even a Roman Catholic will dare to tell. But you cunning liar, you omit to say a resurrection unto WHAT!
     
  12. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Truth well stated! God bless you
     
  13. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    True, <<We all die and the reason for that is sin.>>
    But not all die unbelievers of Eternal life Promised to us in this wicked world we're living in, BY GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST "GOD WITH US" in this wicked world we're living in.
    It is called faith in God's grace which is the indubitable REASON of combatting and overcoming THE SIN OF UNBELIEF WHICH IS THE SIN OF REJECTING THAT JESUS IS "GOD WITH US" WHICH IS THE BLASPHEMY THAT GOD, NEVER WILL FORGIVE, US, IF IT IS US, WHO WILL NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS "GOD WITH US" in this wicked world we're living in.
    THIS was the sin that plagued the Jews in Jesus' day; it is our plague this day still, for the overcoming of and cure for which, the Grace of God "THE MORE ABOUNDED".
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  14. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-2-24_11-24-18.png
     
  15. BARNEY BRIGHT

    BARNEY BRIGHT Well-Known Member

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    We're promised eternal life in this wicked world we're living in but we don't get that eternal life in this wicked world though, we get it in the new world
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    In heaven (Colossians 1:5, 1 Peter 1:4, Revelation 21:9-27).
     
  17. BARNEY BRIGHT

    BARNEY BRIGHT Well-Known Member

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    It's true that there are those bought from humanity who will be resurrected to heaven and get immortality and inherit incorruption but there will also will be those humans who will pass safely through Armageddon into the new world which will be the same planet but after Armageddon has ended will be called the new earth. During such time will begin what is called the Thousand year reign of Jesus Christ during which time there will be resurrections of righteous and unrighteous humans. These humans who are resurrected during the Thousand year reign of Jesus Christ will not come to life until the end of the Thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. Coming to life in the sense that at the end of the Thousand year reign of Jesus Christ all humans living on earth by the time the Thousand years has ended Jesus would have applied the ransom sacrifice in such a way that all humans will no longer have sin living within them, they will be like Adam was before he sinned, sinless humans. The death brought about by Adams disobedience will no longer exist.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Those who are resurrected at the beginning of the 1,000 yr. reign of Christ will not be hurt of the second death.

    Those who are raised at the end of the 1,000 yr. reign will be.

    There is no one who will be raised during the 1,000 yr. reign (do you have scripture for your idea to the contrary?).

    No one will be without sin until they receive their glorified bodies upon entrance into the kingdom of heaven (1 John 1:8).
     
  19. Charlie24

    Charlie24 New Member

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    In Matt. 12:31, Jesus tells us of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

    If you back up to vs. 24, you will see why.

    "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."

    Christ was casting out devils by the power of the Holy Spirit, the Pharisees accused Him of doing by the power of Satan.

    That is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

    There is another example in Hebrews where the Jews who had accepted Christ, were now turning back to temple worship, Judaism.

    They had the indwelling Holy Spirit but rejected Christ when turning back to temple worship, this is also blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
     
  20. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    "By grace you ARE saved, through faith ..", you HAVE eternal life-- ALREADY. In HOPE you spend it, in prayer you await it. Or you'll not <<get it in the new world>>.
     
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