Repentance necessary for salvation.

[Grailhunter]

Not sure what you mean, what circles?

All sin is sin. Right?

Much love!

See you don't even know it...you should be worried. The topic was never about the context of OK.

 

[marks]

Again you do not see the difference of overeating and eating children your entire life.

No, of course I see a difference. We all do. But does God? What does the Bible teach? Does it teach that there are sins we commit which don't require forgiveness? Sins that aren't works of corrupt flesh?

We see differences because we judge by appearances. The one who steals a toothpick or steals a million dollars is in both cases stealing. We may easily think, a toothpick, so what? Is that how we thing God looks at stealing? It's small, so what?

You are talking quantity, and "degree of offensiveness to you".

I'm talking about holy and unholy, righteous and unrighteous.

Much love!

 

[marks]

See you don't even know it...you should be worried. The topic was never about the context of OK.

marks said: ↑
I don't parse some sins as OK and others as NOT OK.

I don't parse some sins as "will condemn you", and "will not condemn you".

I don't parse some sins as "This one is really a sin", and, "this one isn't so much".

I don't pars some sins as, "this will separate you from God", and, "This one won't".

Or, This one will keep you from heaven, and, this one won't. Or anything like that.

Sin is sin. Falling short of God's glory. Anything whatsoever done not in faith and love. Any unrighteousness. And sin kills.

But God forgives.

I still don't know what circles you mean. Perhaps some elucidation?

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

And again this is back to this new denomination thing.
IS THERE A NEW DENOMINATION FORMING? Yep, it is here!

A religion of sanctioned evil and sinning. A sinner can certainly be saved, if they repent. If they do not change, if their character remains the same...this new denomination dictates that heaven will be filled with people of evil character.

What will happen to the people that lived their lives for Christ. Will God even be comfortable with all that evil in heaven? Will He have to move out?

 

[marks]

To say that Christ died on the cross for people like Jeffry Dahmer and Hitler is saying that Christ started a religion of sanctioned evil.

We're polar opposites on this one.

1 Timothy 1:15-17 KJV
15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And again this is back to this new denomination thing.
IS THERE A NEW DENOMINATION FORMING? Yep, it is here!

A religion of sanctioned evil and sinning. A sinner can certainly be saved, if they repent. If they do not change, if their character remains the same...this new denomination dictates that heaven will be filled with people of evil character.

What will happen to the people that lived their lives for Christ. Will God even be comfortable with all that evil in heaven? Will He have to move out?

Why do you think that evil is sanctioned? That evil people will be in heaven?

Do you doubt God's ability to save, to justify, that is, make righteous?

Or is it just offensive to you that certain sinners should be forgiven?

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

No, of course I see a difference. We all do. But does God? What does the Bible teach?

Oh my gosh! Are these really questions for you?

We see differences because we judge by appearances. The one who steals a toothpick or steals a million dollars is in both cases stealing. We may easily think, a toothpick, so what? Is that how we thing God looks at stealing? It's small, so what?

Yeap there is a difference. There is a difference in stealing something and being a career thief. Sin is at your door and its desire is for you. At some point you become the sin and it has you. Can God tell the difference? You betcha! This thing that people think they can play God for a fool and use His Grace to justify sin will come back to bite them.

You are talking quantity, and "degree of offensiveness to you".

I'm talking about holy and unholy, righteous and unrighteous.

As I said, your back to only looking at the part of the Bible that you like. My beliefs include Grace and forgiveness but the Bible proves that it does not sanction evil.

If you care to look at these scriptures you will find that there are no if's and's or but's around them.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Can't see the forest for the trees? Step back a little bit and look at the New Testament as a whole.

 

[Grailhunter]

We're polar opposites on this one.

1 Timothy 1:15-17 KJV
15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Much love!

I beg your pardon! I believe in Grace and forgiveness. The only thing that puts us at odds is that you need to understand what the Bible says about sin and judgment. You need to include those parts of the Bible in your beliefs. It does not matter what I say, pay attention to what the Bible says. Are you going to take a black magic marker and mark out the parts you do not like.

 

[marks]

Are you going to take a black magic marker and mark out the parts you do not like.

Of course not! What parts do you think I don't like?

I really don't think anyone on this forum really understands to what regard I hold the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Why do you think that evil is sanctioned? That evil people will be in heaven?

Because you are saying that evil will be forgiven and go to heaven...are you reversing your position on forgiving evil?

Do you doubt God's ability to save, to justify, that is, make righteous?

There is no doubt that Christ was crucified on the cross to save us sinners. There is no doubt that the Christians that lives their life for Christ will fail and get forgiven. But then again, once you are defined as the sin that you practiced your whole life, you will be judged by that sin...every idle word will be made account of on Judgment Day. Sin sits at your door and its desire is for you and it can take you. I have already given you the scripture that say what evil will not inherit the kingdom of heaven...do you deny them?

 

[justbyfaith]

If, as a Christian, you murder someone, are you forgiven of that because you are a Christian?

If, as a Christian, and you steal a toothpick, are you forgiven of that because you are a Christian?

Is the answer to the first no but that answer to the second yes?

Or, is the answer to the second question also no (whether or not the answer to the first question is no).

If you are forgiven for stealing a toothpick because you are a Christian, why are you not forgiven of murder if you are a Christian?

If the answer to the second question is, that you are not forgiven of stealing a toothpick because you are a Christian, then you must be absolutely perfect to go to heaven.

And if the answer to the first question is, that you are forgiven of murder because you are a Christian, then that would indicate that murderers have eternal life dwelling in them (which is contrary to scripture).

If you are not forgiven of murder, why are you forgiven for stealing a toothpick?

And if you are forgiven of stealing a toothpick, why are you not forgiven of murder?

It seems to me that degrees of sin do matter.

 

[Grailhunter]

Of course not! What parts do you think I don't like?

I really don't think anyone on this forum really understands to what regard I hold the Bible.

Much love!

I think there is a lot of the Bible you do not like...these are just a small part.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

There is no way to talk circles around these scriptures

 

[marks]

Oh my gosh! Are these really questions for you?

No, they are questions for you.

If you are thinking that some sins don't 'rate' the same as other sins, I'm asking, do you think God sees sin the same? Or is all sin deadly? All sin unrighteousness?

Yeap there is a difference. There is a difference in stealing something and being a career thief. Sin is at your door and its desire is for you. At some point you become the sin and it has you. Can God tell the difference? You betcha! This thing that people think they can play God for a fool and use His Grace to justify sin will come back to bite them.

I'm saying, no one should be deceived thinking that God uses their standard of what sin is. God has His Own, and I believe it to be absolutely black and white, light and darkness, good and evil, and never the twain to meet.

Let me ask you this. Does it seem to you that I'm softer on sin than you are? I see myself as having a more strict standard regarding sin.

As I said, your back to only looking at the part of the Bible that you like.

Intellectual dishonesty?

Why would you think you know enough about me to say this?

The fact is . . . perhaps you may not realize it . . . I love the Bible. Every bit of it. There. You made me talk about myself. But to what end? Does it change what the Bible teaches? No it does not.

but the Bible proves that it does not sanction evil.

And you think that's what I'm doing? Is that the problem here?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV
9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Such were some of you . . .

Can't see the forest for the trees? Step back a little bit and look at the New Testament as a whole.

Having a problem separating out trees themself for all the foilage?

Seriously though, we need to harmonize all these into a cohesive teaching, realizing that passages which make clear and specific statements must be considered just as they are, and that other passages which seem to imply something need to take into accound the ones that are clear.

The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Some of you were these, but you've been washed.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

If you are thinking that some sins don't 'rate' the same as other sins, I'm asking, do you think God sees sin the same? Or is all sin deadly? All sin unrighteousness?

No God does not see all sin the same. You think He is stupid?
You are probably not going to hell for stubbing your toe and cussing.
This is one of tactics that this new denomination uses. All sin is the same! So a murder is not any worse than someone that spit on the sidewalk! You / they must think God is a moron and they can use Grace to get away with eating children and still go to heaven.
You and I are not in opposition, you are opposed to the Bible. I have already given you the scriptures of the evils that will prevent you from going it heaven...wantz som mor!

Hebrews 10:26-31
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[marks]

You think He is stupid?

Breaktime.

 

[Grailhunter]

Intellectual dishonesty?

Why would you think you know enough about me to say this?

The fact is . . . perhaps you may not realize it . . . I love the Bible. Every bit of it. There. You made me talk about myself. But to what end? Does it change what the Bible teaches? No it does not.

I am taking what you are say as what you believe.

 

[Grailhunter]

Having a problem separating out trees themself for all the foilage?

Seriously though, we need to harmonize all these into a cohesive teaching, realizing that passages which make clear and specific statements must be considered just as they are, and that other passages which seem to imply something need to take into accound the ones that are clear.

Again talking in circles. "seem to imply" for those scriptures you do not like?

 

[marks]

"seem to imply" for those scriptures you do not like?

No, for those which don't directly say something which some people appear to think they say.

But seriously, I'm getting tired of reading from people that I pick and choose which parts of the Bible to listen to and which to not based on some supposed personal preferance, as if I have nothing better to do than try and play games with God.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Breaktime.

By using Grace to sanction evil is sacrilegious. If the evil are forgiven and go to heaven, then you are saying that Christianity is the religion of sanctioned evil. If you think you can work the system...Grace...then you are sanctioning evil.

How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

You have insult the spirit of Grace.

 

[Grailhunter]

No, for those which don't directly say something which some people appear to think they say.

So you can read the scriptures I gave you and you can say they do not say what they say...You want some more scriptures that you can ignore or explain away. Maybe you need to call your religion the tap dance religion.

But seriously, I'm getting tired of reading from people that I pick and choose which parts of the Bible to listen to and which to not based on some supposed personal preferance, as if I have nothing better to do than try and play games with God.

Anybody reading these post know that I am not the one picking and choosing scripture...you are doing it as a matter of religious practice.