Replacement theology is biblical illiteracy!

[Cassandra]

They had to continue obeying.

Matt 11:33-43
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

 

[Truther]

God did not lie to the fathers through the prophet Jeremiah in chapter 31.

He will save everyone in Israel from from the least to the greatest.

Even witnessing will cease, for everyone will visibly know and see Jesus Christ in the land.

The best is yet to come.

 

[Truther]

They had to continue obeying.



43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

....until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled(Luke 21:24).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Gal. 3:28-29 :There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes, I too believe that the Israelites who lived by faith will be resurrected. Everyone who lives or lived by faith will But I also find it horribly unfair, for those who didn't live by faith to not be given a second chance, as this prophecy is supposed to give the Jews a second chance. when Christ returns.

I believe the covenant between God and Israel was not fulfilled, because Israel did not do their part. A covenant is two sided. Genealogy is not a ticket into Heaven.

Well, Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but by Him. Also "if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed". That is the spiritual seed. There are the promises to bloodline as well, to Israel.

I often think of all those who never heard of the gospel, the Bible and any of it's stories. What about those people? The Bible says they are without excuse because "... people suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse." ROM. 1:18-20
It goes on and says they knew God but did not honor him or give thanks.
So concerning people who did have a perception of God, "the great Spirit in the sky", the "Creator", and did honor and give thanks, but just were ignorant about all the other specific details, what about those people? What if they lived by faith?
I had a Pastor who once answered the question about what of those who ever heard the gospel? He said, God judges them based on what they did know. Obviously they could not reject the gospel if they never heard it.

 

[Karl Peters]

Is it not the Kingdom of God that is the nation of God?

To me there seems to be a short-sidedness in this whole thread, and it has to do with worldly thinking!!!

“You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the Israelites” (Exodus 19:4-6).

The Lord's personality has not changed!! He makes the covenant with people. Yes the nation of Israel, because Abram listened to the Lord and obey His voice, first but to all people - because He made all things/people. The physical or worldly is not what He is so concerned with, but rather God is Spirit and so the heavenly Kingdom of God is the concern. Will this planet we are on go on forever as we know it? I think not! But we are so focus on our physical being that we just ignore the heavenly realm! -Saying 'It's not the church it's the nation of Israel is just worldly thinking and show we are not hearing His voice which comes via the Holy Spirit like we should!

Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

So His kingdom is not of this realm!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was what Paul was explaining with statements like:

Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

Rom 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


Do we still not understand that we are being grafted into the King Jesus Christ and His heavenly kingdom of God which is not of this world?

Did we not read that we are in this world but not of this world? So why the the discussion as to the church or the nation of Israel? Is it not because our mind is on the things of this world instead of the Lord???

If you want to be in the covenant then obey His voice and do what He says!!!

His sheep hear His voice and that voice comes in words via the Holy Spirit!!

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

So if a person from any nation listens to His words and obey they are now grafted into the kingdom of God through the King. But if anyone then decides to reject the Lord will they not dry up and be broken off? So if indeed the real church is His body then the church is and only consists of those people (regardless of their worldly nation) His sheep who really hear His voice!! Why would some not know this? It is because they don't hear His voice!

 

[Curtis]

I definitely disagree with Replacement Theology and agree with your premise except with the fulfullment of the vision of dry bones.
This passage is talking about the resurrection of the dead. Ti tje dry bones He says:
"...I will make breath enter you and you will come to life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you and you will come to life ..." Ezek. 37:5-6
So He will resurrect those Israelites who lived by faith, who died before Christ . I am not sure about those who were blinded after Christ til now who lived by faith - maybe them too?

I can see why you think that, but I think it’s primarily about the resurrection of the nations, because God quotes that Israelites are saying about their nation “behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.“

Eze 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Then God goes on to speak on the same topic:

Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Opinions vary, even among commentaries, but I agree with the Cambridge bible commentary, of course because they agree with me - lol:

1–14. The vision of Israel’s resurrection from the dead

The vision seems suggested by the saying current among the people, “our bones are dried, our hope is lost; we are wholly cut off.” This idea and feeling of the people takes form in the vision which the prophet saw in the valley. The language of the people is figurative: they speak of the nationality, which is no more,—it is dead and its bones scattered and dry. And this idea regarding the nationality, figuratively expressed by the people, is embodied to the prophet in a vision. Hence the passage is not a literal prophecy of the resurrection of individual persons of the nation, dead or slain; it is a prophecy of the resurrection of the nation, whose condition is figuratively expressed by the people when they represent its bones as long scattered and dry. Perfect consistency is not maintained by the prophet: in Eze 37:1-2 the dry bones are represented as lying on the face of the valley, very many and very dry; in Eze 37:12 they are represented as buried and brought up out of their graves. Hosea had already used the figure of resurrection for the resuscitation of the nation (Eze 6:2, Eze 13:4); but, though the language used both here and by Hosea shews familiarity with the idea of the raising again of individuals, this is not what is prophesied. In Isa 26:19; Daniel 12 the actual resurrection of individual members of Israel is predicted, cf. Job 14:13 seq.

Ezekiel 37:12

The figure is varied here, the people are regarded as dead and buried and their revival is an opening of their graves. The phrase “bring you into the land of Israel” shews, however, that the language is still used figuratively of the resuscitation of the dead nation and not literally of the resurrection of deceased individuals.

So, note that before and after the dry bones prophecy God is on the topic of restoring the nation of Israel:

Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Eze 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Shalom Aleichem

Maranatha

 

[Curtis]

What was the promise that Israel made in the covenant ?

“You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the Israelites” (Exodus 19:4-6).

That’s the Mosaic covenant, which Israel continually broke and God ended it because it was conditional upon their obedience - however the promised new covenant is again with the House of Israel and House of Judah, per Jeremiah 31, and Hebrews 8,9, and 10 state that Jesus is currently mediating that Jeremiah 31 new covenant - proven by Hebrews in those chapters quoting Jeremiah 31, and says that new covenant took effect with the death of Jesus, chapter 9.

God says He will keep the covenant He made concerning Israel and their being brought back to their land which He dispersed them from, for HIS SAKE, not for theirs:

Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Eze 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Maranatha

 

[Spirit_and_Truth]

it was predators with jet fighters against goat-herders with rocks and sticks
”nation” and “secular” are mutually exclusive, im pretty sure, and i guess you mean “country,” and no offense but im pretty sure Jesus is not ever returning, and certainly not to rule Israel, Inc., the Apartheid Paradise

i think it was…just what we are famous for, more land theft, from those too weak to resist

i gotta go with ancient on that, imo we have a bunch of fortune tellers

Nonetheless. Israelites going 1900 years before returning to their homeland is miraculous, especially when they were targeted for extermination by the Nazis. Just like God predicated in Ezekiel.

Consider the Americans Indians. 400 years after the 13 original colonies they're nearly extinct and absorbed into society. If they're still around in 1500 years while maintaining their cultural heritage and have America given back to them, that would be a miracle of equal magnitude-IF it was prophesied in their holy book, 100s of years before Christopher Columbus arrived.

 

[Truth7t7]

God made a future covenant(promise) with the fathers concerning future national Israel.

The church is merely included in that future covenant in a partial way.

The best is yet to come.

God made NO covenant with the Gentile church.

Replacement theology is simply covenant theft.

Fact is, the kingdom was taken from Israel when the Jews rejected the chief cornerstone in Jesus Christ, and the kingdom was given to the Church as Jesus clearly stated below

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[Truth7t7]

That’s the Mosaic covenant, which Israel continually broke and God ended it because it was conditional upon their obedience - however the promised new covenant is again with the House of Israel and House of Judah, per Jeremiah 31, and Hebrews 8,9, and 10 state that Jesus is currently mediating that Jeremiah 31 new covenant - proven by Hebrews in those chapters quoting Jeremiah 31, and says that new covenant took effect with the death of Jesus, chapter 9.

God says He will keep the covenant He made concerning Israel and their being brought back to their land which He dispersed them from, for HIS SAKE, not for theirs:

Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Eze 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Maranatha

The covenants and promises made to Abraham was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, it's that simple

The scripture states "Seed" singular "Jesus" not "Seeds" plural "Jews"

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

Nonetheless. Israelites going 1900 years before returning to their homeland is miraculous, especially when they were targeted for extermination by the Nazis. Just like God predicated in Ezekiel.

ok, go with that then, if you like

 

[Truther]

Fact is, the kingdom was taken from Israel when the Jews rejected the chief cornerstone in Jesus Christ, and the kingdom was given to the Church as Jesus clearly stated below

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

It was only a temporary taking per Luke 21:24.

As a matter of fact, in Acts 1, Jesus told the disciples it was none of their business when his Father would restore the kingdom to national Israel.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, go with that then, if you like

i would at least remain open to the possibility that a bunch of rich manipulators seized upon the bad human interpretation of Ezekiel to steal land from people who should have been protected, using “Jews” as patsies

 

[Spirit_and_Truth]

ok, go with that then, if you like

it's not about going w/ what I like. God prophesied it in His Word and that is the miraculous nature of it's fulfillment 1000s of years later.

 

[Spirit_and_Truth]

What do you profess to believe about Jesus Christ and the Bible?

 

[Spirit_and_Truth]

What do believe about Jesus Christ and the Bible?

 

[bbyrd009]

it's not about going w/ what I like. God prophesied it in His Word and that is the miraculous nature of it's fulfillment 1000s of years later.

well, it’s a convenient interpretation anyway, miraculous im not so convinced.
i guess it is kinda miraculous that so many are led to agree with such an oppressive plan, not that we dont have plenty of history there lol. Say Yah was in it if that makes you feel better i guess

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

And this idea regarding the nationality, figuratively expressed by the people, is embodied to the prophet in a vision. Hence the passage is not a literal prophecy of the resurrection of individual persons of the nation, dead or slain; it is a prophecy of the resurrection of the nation, whose condition is figuratively expressed by the people when they represent its bones as long scattered and dry.

Sorry, I disagree and think God is literally describing Him resurrecting dead bones out if graves, and being specific about putting flesh on the bones and breathing life, with a new resurrected, eternal body ... then He says, when I do that, THEN you will know that I am the Lord.
Evidently, the dead bones seemed to be from Israelites who didn't know the Lord. ? When this miracle is done, then they will know.
So, I would'nt use the dry bones passages to argue against Replacement Theology. Romans 11 is sufficient as well as God's Covenenants with them.

So, note that before and after the dry bones prophecy God is on the topic of restoring the nation of Israel:

Different topic, it seems that is your mistake, you are combining both chapters, 36 & 37.
"Therefore prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, O my people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel."

Ezek. 37 is literally a reference to the coming Resurrection of the dead.

 

[bbyrd009]

wherein no literal dead people are ever going to be “resurrected,” surely

There are the promises to bloodline as well, to Israel

not all who are born Israel are of Israel?

So concerning people who did have a perception of God, "the great Spirit in the sky", the "Creator", and did honor and give thanks, but just were ignorant about all the other specific details, what about those people? What if they lived by faith?

go and do likewise?

 

[Truther]

S


Different topic, ut seems that is your mistake, your are combining both chapters, 36 & 37.
Therefore prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, O my people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

Ezek. 37 is literally a reference to the coming Resurrection of the dead.

No, it is the whole house of Israel.