Replacement Theology thrown down in 1 verse?

[Naomi25]

In every case in the word that matters when God exercises judgment/punishment/miracles, so far, God has used natural things or things found in or on the earth. The only exception might be rain because some people believe it never rained until Noah, it wasn't new, per se, it was ice used in a different way. The burning bush, Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's wife, earthquakes, volcanoes, flood, fire, siege machines built by man, humans acting like asses or losing their ability to speak, etc. Could God change things up? Yes, but I think what we see in Rev. are things that will be natural to our generation and John is describing them as best as he can. Considering the message he is writing, is it a stretch that Jesus might want to use dramatic wording to enhance their importance. Regarding the contemporariness of the message. Prophecy, in most cases is never for the generation that receives it. They are usually for several generations in the future. If there were any, I can't think of them at the moment.

Two points here: Prophecy is not just about foretelling. It's also about forthtelling. For example: in Rev 10:11 and Rev 11:3 it uses the word 'prophesy'. However, in both cases the term indicates proclaiming the word, righteous acts and judgments of God, as opposed to 'predicting the future'. So in regards to who it is written to, we must remember this along with the addressed audience. Are some things future? Yes, as long as human history continues to unfold much of what is written of in Revelation will continue to be 'forthtelling' for the Church that reads it, as well as foretelling the consumation of all things ahead of us.
The other point is in regards to 'God using natural things'. The problem I see with that is, the event in question is not something we have seen before. The event in question is the end event, the event that wraps up everything and causes all 'natural' things to pass away with the coming of God's judgment upon this earth. So, I don't think trying to hold what has happened before as a litmus test for this event, because there has never been an event like this, as we are still here.

 

[Trekson]

Two points here: Prophecy is not just about foretelling. It's also about forthtelling. For example: in Rev 10:11 and Rev 11:3 it uses the word 'prophesy'. However, in both cases the term indicates proclaiming the word, righteous acts and judgments of God, as opposed to 'predicting the future'. So in regards to who it is written to, we must remember this along with the addressed audience. Are some things future? Yes, as long as human history continues to unfold much of what is written of in Revelation will continue to be 'forthtelling' for the Church that reads it, as well as foretelling the consumation of all things ahead of us.
The other point is in regards to 'God using natural things'. The problem I see with that is, the event in question is not something we have seen before. The event in question is the end event, the event that wraps up everything and causes all 'natural' things to pass away with the coming of God's judgment upon this earth. So, I don't think trying to hold what has happened before as a litmus test for this event, because there has never been an event like this, as we are still here.

If I had wanted to use "prophesy", I would have but that wasn't the topic. Were the OT prophecies of the Messiah for the generation that actually wrote them? No! Were all the OT prophecies about the millennial era or the kingdom of God for the generation that recorded them? No! Was the prophecy of Gen.3:15 for Adam's generation? No, it was for a generation 4000 yrs. in the future. Was Ezekiel's prophecy regarding the valley of dry bones for his generation? No. It was for at least 2400 yrs. into the future. How often did a prophesied virgin birth occur? Once, it was something never seen before, yet completely natural. How many times have the waters parted so people could walk across on "dry" land? Once, and it had never been seen before, yet nothing unearthly there either. The earth was destroyed once by a natural thing, water. Just because we can't picture it or understand it, doesn't mean God can't perform these things using things that are naturally in and around the earth in a different way than they have ever been used or seen before. With all the historical proof of long time prophecies coming true centuries or millennia later, why is it so hard to believe that Jesus can use the same format that was often used before regarding time and the future?

 

[Naomi25]

If I had wanted to use "prophesy", I would have but that wasn't the topic. Were the OT prophecies of the Messiah for the generation that actually wrote them? No! Were all the OT prophecies about the millennial era or the kingdom of God for the generation that recorded them? No! Was the prophecy of Gen.3:15 for Adam's generation? No, it was for a generation 4000 yrs. in the future. Was Ezekiel's prophecy regarding the valley of dry bones for his generation? No. It was for at least 2400 yrs. into the future. How often did a prophesied virgin birth occur? Once, it was something never seen before, yet completely natural. How many times have the waters parted so people could walk across on "dry" land? Once, and it had never been seen before, yet nothing unearthly there either. The earth was destroyed once by a natural thing, water. Just because we can't picture it or understand it, doesn't mean God can't perform these things using things that are naturally in and around the earth in a different way than they have ever been used or seen before. With all the historical proof of long time prophecies coming true centuries or millennia later, why is it so hard to believe that Jesus can use the same format that was often used before regarding time and the future?

You're sort of missing my point. Yes, some prophecy is about future events. But not all of it. How often in the OT, in the "prophetic" books do we come across some announcement made by the prophet that has direct relavance to the people of that day? Some judgement due to their sin? Some warning, some encouragement? There are both, and we need to consider the texts carefully to see which is which.
In Revelation we see repeated phrases like "he who has an ear, let him hear". We hear it most in the letters to the churches, but we see it in Chapter 13:9 and then we see the phrase "Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book" in 22:7, which is repeated from Chapter 1:3. Let me ask you somethig...if everything after the letters was set in some distant future, why are the people back then being told to 'hear' and 'keep'? How you do keep something that is a future event outside of yourself anyway? That seems odd, does it not?
That depends. It depends on what the true goal of Revelation is. If it is to show that despite persecution and suffering of God's people here on earth, if we persevere, we will triumph, because as Revelation shows, our God is might, and no forces that come against him or us, will defeat him. And we are in him. In that way, if we 'keep' the words of this 'prophecy'...if we remain true in God even through suffering, maintaining our testimony unto death, then we are blessed. And that is something that will hold for every generation of believer.

 

[Trekson]

if everything after the letters was set in some distant future, why are the people back then being told to 'hear' and 'keep'? How you do keep something that is a future event outside of yourself anyway? That seems odd, does it not?

No, it's not odd it just shows how important it is. The word "hear" in this context means to understand and report while the word "keep" means to take note of, guard and preserve. Passing along important truths to future generations before writing was common was normally accomplished by story-telling and teaching biblical truths to our children is a common responsibility as parents. So, the impact of those words and phrases are to make sure the prophecies of Rev. are passed along to the generations that will need this info the most. With that said, yes there are rules to live by and things that affect the generation of authorship but they are not usually found within the prophecy itself. They could be before or after, leading up to, etc. Let's use Is. 53 as an example. It's all about the Messiah and the only thing within the context that would affect that generation was the fact that they are being told that he suffers these things because of generations of collective sins including the present one.

It depends on what the true goal of Revelation is. If it is to show that despite persecution and suffering of God's people here on earth, if we persevere, we will triumph, because as Revelation shows, our God is might, and no forces that come against him or us, will defeat him. And we are in him. In that way, if we 'keep' the words of this 'prophecy'...if we remain true in God even through suffering, maintaining our testimony unto death, then we are blessed. And that is something that will hold for every generation of believer.

Amen to the above and well said, but I wouldn't say that it was the "goal". It shows the inevitable outcome that no matter what we will prevail but in my opinion the goal is to warn the generation that will suffer these things to be ready, to watch, to prepare spiritually and physically for the hardships and severe persecution that is headed our way. I fear it will be the people who are unprepared and spiritually weak who are the ones that will become part of the great apostasy spoken of in Thessalonians. That is why I see danger in amillennialism. If a literalist is wrong, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal, life would be much easier than we expect, but if being amil is wrong, at what point would you accept it? Are you so sure that when we become a cashless society you'll jump right in line to get the mark if they demand it to be on your right hand or forehead? There would be no going back or repenting for that. Or, maybe when you're jailed for possessing a bible or having a group of fellow Christians in your home?

 

[Naomi25]

No, it's not odd it just shows how important it is. The word "hear" in this context means to understand and report while the word "keep" means to take note of, guard and preserve. Passing along important truths to future generations before writing was common was normally accomplished by story-telling and teaching biblical truths to our children is a common responsibility as parents. So, the impact of those words and phrases are to make sure the prophecies of Rev. are passed along to the generations that will need this info the most. With that said, yes there are rules to live by and things that affect the generation of authorship but they are not usually found within the prophecy itself. They could be before or after, leading up to, etc. Let's use Is. 53 as an example. It's all about the Messiah and the only thing within the context that would affect that generation was the fact that they are being told that he suffers these things because of generations of collective sins including the present one.

The problem I have with that is, if they were to guard it and pass it along, then the book should have said as much...especially if we're being literal. But it doesn't say that. So...are we attempting to be literal here, or at this point have we just completely abandoned the pretext of it?

Amen to the above and well said, but I wouldn't say that it was the "goal". It shows the inevitable outcome that no matter what we will prevail but in my opinion the goal is to warn the generation that will suffer these things to be ready, to watch, to prepare spiritually and physically for the hardships and severe persecution that is headed our way. I fear it will be the people who are unprepared and spiritually weak who are the ones that will become part of the great apostasy spoken of in Thessalonians. That is why I see danger in amillennialism. If a literalist is wrong, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal, life would be much easier than we expect, but if being amil is wrong, at what point would you accept it? Are you so sure that when we become a cashless society you'll jump right in line to get the mark if they demand it to be on your right hand or forehead? There would be no going back or repenting for that. Or, maybe when you're jailed for possessing a bible or having a group of fellow Christians in your home?

You think my being an Amil would set me up for apostasy when the end comes apon us? How so? If I see most of Revelation telling us the same thing: trust in God, endure through persecution, do not be deceived by the evil one, keep your eyes on the Lamb, stand true in your testimony even unto death....how is that going to see me fail and fall away? How is that any different, ultimately, to understanding that these things happen only at the very end? I agree that Revelation tells us things will become worse before then end, and Christians must be aware of it and prepared for it, but...again...being aware, I am prepared, am I not?
And let me ask you something else. Do you use your bank card? Do you use the 'tap' function? Do you use an apple watch? I know plenty of Christians who do. They use internet banking as well. There are many ways already, that are cashless banking. And do you know why Christians use them without feeling like they are worshipping the beast? Because Revelation tells us that when we take the mark, we will kNOW that in taking the mark, we are making a definite choice between God and the god of this world. And I can assure you, when that time comes...when that particular change to the banking system comes...I will be just as ready as the next Christian. Because regardless of how I read Revelation, Jesus Christ will always come first.

 

[Trekson]

if they were to guard it and pass it along, then the book should have said as much...especially if we're being literal

Uh, it did using the words "keep and hear" which most likely had a stronger message in the Greek.

trust in God, endure through persecution, do not be deceived by the evil one, keep your eyes on the Lamb, stand true in your testimony even unto death.

Then you are the exception to the rule. Here in KY we have many Church of God's and variations of it and they are all amil. They are all preterists and see nothing to prepare for. All the things in Rev. happened back in 70ad, according to them. The average church member knows nothing about Rev. because they equate it with the OT. Besides our personal struggles, here in the US it's all butterflies and roses. Most Christians, regardless of their eschatology are not as informed as most of us are in this group. At least we are talking about it, sharing our knowledge and beliefs. In many churches in my area even those with a literal interpretation don't want to talk about end-times because it is too "controversial".

Do you use your bank card? Do you use the 'tap' function? Do you use an apple watch? I know plenty of Christians who do. They use internet banking as well.

No, I don't use any of those things and I only have a credit card for the things that are necessary such as car rentals. In my area, cash and checks are not acceptable to rent a car.

 

[CoreIssue]

No, I don't use any of those things and I only have a credit card for the things that are necessary such as car rentals. In my area, cash and checks are not acceptable to rent a car.

Carrying a lot of cash is dangerous.

Credit cards have become essential to life, including your credit score. Ours is 820.

Amazon is credit card.

A lot of banking is via internet. Pentagon Credit Union is fabulous. But driving from Georgia to Alexandria is a non starter. Not to mention parking is horrid.

 

[Naomi25]

Uh, it did using the words "keep and hear" which most likely had a stronger message in the Greek.

Well, I suppose we might have to disagree on the most obvious usage of these words. To me, the most obvious interpretation of "keep what is written" is for them to take heed of and do. In other words...for them to stay strong under persecution and stay firm in their testimony and to not loose hope.
But again, we might need to agree to disagree.

Then you are the exception to the rule. Here in KY we have many Church of God's and variations of it and they are all amil. They are all preterists and see nothing to prepare for. All the things in Rev. happened back in 70ad, according to them. The average church member knows nothing about Rev. because they equate it with the OT. Besides our personal struggles, here in the US it's all butterflies and roses. Most Christians, regardless of their eschatology are not as informed as most of us are in this group. At least we are talking about it, sharing our knowledge and beliefs. In many churches in my area even those with a literal interpretation don't want to talk about end-times because it is too "controversial".

I think you mistake Amillennialists with preterist. There are some similarities, in that Amil's see that many of the things in the Olivet Discourse did indeed happen in 70AD, but not all...obviously where Christ talks about his second coming has not happened. Full preterists and even partial preterists see all of 70AD as done. Amil's can also see the Olivet Discourse as, while playing out in 70AD, painting a 'shadow' of other things to come towards the end. That depends, however, not all see this. I think most Preterists see all of Rev (except the final return) as done as well. I haven't made a huge study of what they believe, to be honest, although I know that full preterists don't believe in a literal second coming and are therefore considered heretical by orthodoxy.
I agree that most Christians don't know enough about Revelation or the end times. They don't think it matters. And, certainly, it will happen without them being prepared for it. But when Christ and his Apostles speak of so much...placing so much future hope on the event...on where this Christian life of ours is marching, I would think it would behove more of us to at least hold an opinion on it.
However...that being said...I think those things I said...the things safeguarding me against making a choice for this world against Jesus? I believe they would stand for most Christians I know. They know their bibles well and love Jesus immensely and would't be tricked or forced into choosing this world over him.

No, I don't use any of those things and I only have a credit card for the things that are necessary such as car rentals. In my area, cash and checks are not acceptable to rent a car.

But my point stands, I believe, as thousands, if not millions of Christians currently DO use those things at present, and they are able to do so becuase they haven't had to 'sign on' with the world system or a leader and denounce Christ to use them.
Look at China at present, with their social system. With all the online monitoring and public camera, a person has their social score affected by where they shop, who they talk to and hang with and how 'patriotic' they are. Christians are being cracked down on. I imagine that being a Christian is effecting that social score, and making it hard to find work, buy food, find a home, good schools, etc. Soon, if it gets worse, they may find to even be a part of that system, they would need to renounce Christ completely, pledging allegiance only to the Party. The Christians will have a clear choice...live within society under their clear rules...or Jesus...pick. It won't truly matter if they have different end times opinions, the choice will be clear and obvious if they are truly saved.

 

[Trekson]

To me, the most obvious interpretation of "keep what is written" is for them to take heed of and do. In other words...for them to stay strong under persecution and stay firm in their testimony and to not loose hope.

We can't always imagine that they are understood in the original language the same way we understand it from the translations. There are many nuances we just don't get.

I think you mistake Amillennialists with preterist

Well that could be because every preterist I've debated with has been amil and read REv, as symbolic, so I have assumed that all amils and symbolicists(?) are preterist.

It won't truly matter if they have different end times opinions, the choice will be clear and obvious if they are truly saved.

C'mon sis, give me something here!!! Are you saying that if you see a prophecy come true literally from something you had assumed as symbolic, you wouldn't rethink things a little?

 

[Waiting on him]

If I had wanted to use "prophesy", I would have but that wasn't the topic. Were the OT prophecies of the Messiah for the generation that actually wrote them? No! Were all the OT prophecies about the millennial era or the kingdom of God for the generation that recorded them? No! Was the prophecy of Gen.3:15 for Adam's generation? No, it was for a generation 4000 yrs. in the future. Was Ezekiel's prophecy regarding the valley of dry bones for his generation? No. It was for at least 2400 yrs. into the future. How often did a prophesied virgin birth occur? Once, it was something never seen before, yet completely natural. How many times have the waters parted so people could walk across on "dry" land? Once, and it had never been seen before, yet nothing unearthly there either. The earth was destroyed once by a natural thing, water. Just because we can't picture it or understand it, doesn't mean God can't perform these things using things that are naturally in and around the earth in a different way than they have ever been used or seen before. With all the historical proof of long time prophecies coming true centuries or millennia later, why is it so hard to believe that Jesus can use the same format that was often used before regarding time and the future?

2 Kings 2:8 KJV
[8] And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

Tecarta BibleJust thought you might want to know for future reference

 

[Taken]

It's obvious that replacement theology is a lie, but with that does this verse in Romans shoot down the whole heresy in one statement: Romans 11: 1 "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!"

No, God does WILL NOT REJECT, "HIS People"

But then, one must know WHO Gods People are...which is to say Hebrews and Jews who believe and KEPT their belief IN GOD.
THEY ARE ISRAEL, Gods People...and
Who have heard Christ Jesus, and rejected Him, Shall suffer the Wath of the Lamb, effected at the OPeNING of the SEALS, BY the Lamb....then be ministered to by the Two witnesses, and the 144,000 Jews, and come into belief and resurrected and redeemed by God, BEFORE Gods Wrath is poured out upon the earth.

Christ's People...
John 17

1. [9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
2. [11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
3. [24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Christ's PEOPLE, are they WHO believe in God, In Christ AND have confessed their Belief, and become prepared to be Resurrected and redeemed unto Christ in the clouds, before the opening of the Seals.
THey are called Christ's Church.

Christ's People...are already prepared...
And redeemed at pre-trib

Israel, Gods People, are prepared during the TRIB and redeemed during the Trib.

Remaining...ending of tribulation...
A few ...void of the beasts mark..hearing the Angel preach to all the world...change and convert and are saved.

Still in ending of tribulation.
A few...remnant of Jews shall be Saved VOID of the mark of the beast, remain immortal and repopulate the earth.
^ co-insides with Jesus' return and Christ's Earthly Kingdom, Christ's Church with Him.

Still in the ending of tribulation.
the rest shall be Subject to Gods WRATH....AND Gods INDIGNATION [ie fulfillment of Gods Vengence) poured out upon them....THEN Bodily killed...their body, bird food, their souls sent to hell, waiting for the 1,000 years to pass, and their soul and their body raised up to Hell, to be judged and sentenced.

Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

"it's like this
and like that
and like this"
lol

 

[bbyrd009]

It's obvious that replacement theology is a lie, but with that does this verse in Romans shoot down the whole heresy in one statement: Romans 11: 1 "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!"

wadr imo "Replacement Theology" is a great imaginary subject for the deceived to debate, another awesome display of the Hegelian Dialectic, either/or, but Scripture is pretty clear @ not all who are born Israel are Israel etc

 

[Naomi25]

We can't always imagine that they are understood in the original language the same way we understand it from the translations. There are many nuances we just don't get.

Well, true, but that, of course, goes both ways!

Well that could be because every preterist I've debated with has been amil and read REv, as symbolic, so I have assumed that all amils and symbolicists(?) are preterist.

It's true there is a fine line. Like...all Dispensationalists are Premillennials, but not all Premillennials are Dispensationalists!
I think when it comes to something like Preterists its even murkier, if you forgive the phrase, because the system of Amillennialism does, in point of fact, believe that much of the Olivet Discourse talks about 70AD or the church age, just as the Preterists do. But, as a general rule, we don't hold to the 'system' of Preterism, if you get the difference! Just because there is some cross over doesn't actually mean that Amil's ARE Preterists. Although, yes, I have bumped up against some who do double label themselves. To me, that's a bit of a misnomer, really, but I suppose each to their own!

C'mon sis, give me something here!!! Are you saying that if you see a prophecy come true literally from something you had assumed as symbolic, you wouldn't rethink things a little?

It's true, I would pause! And, in point of fact, I am watching the Israel/Syria/Russia/Iran situation very closely.
However, while it would make me seriously consider these end days and the unfolding of them, I'm not so sure it would change my mind on the millennium. I see scripture being fairly airtight on that, and the Premillennial ideas having too many holes and errors.
But, sure....I'm not opposed to having a literal fulfilment moment (like Paul knocked on his butt!) change my mind, or at least making me seriously reconsider how I view things. But...it needs to be definite, none of these vague 'it can sort of fit' kind of things.

 

[marks]

Romans 11:11-18 KJV

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Vs. 12: They are diminished, they will become full again. Not replaced.
Vs. 15: They are cast away, they will be again received.
Vss. 17 & 18: There are the natural branches = Israel; There are the wild branches = Gentiles; There is the root, the tree itself, who is that?

We, with them, partake of the root together. Who is the tree?

What do we share with Israel? We are children of faith, children of Abraham. There's the tree.

The way I see it.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It's obvious that replacement theology is a lie, but with that does this verse in Romans shoot down the whole heresy in one statement: Romans 11: 1 "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!"

From the text of Romans 11, God's people is not fleshly Israel for Romans 11 clearly shows that fleshly Israel was cast off and the Gentiles grafted in, Romans 11:7-22.

So the question remains, who is God's people, the people God foreknew, Romans 11:1-2? As already noted in Romans 11 fleshly Israel was cast off, yet Paul was a Jew in the flesh himself (Romans 11:1) yet he was not cast off...why? Because he OBEYED GOD and became a Christian. So there is a first hint to who God's people are. We find in the immediate text of Romans 11 who God's people were in the OT, verse 4 " I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal." So in the OT God's people were those who OBEYED GOD. So it becomes evident who God's people are......God's people has been and continues to be those that OBEY Him. OT or NT God NEVER rejected those who obeyed Him. Fleshly Israel disobeyed and rejected God when they rejected Christ, thus God rejected them.

God's people are those people He foreknew (Romans 11:2):
--Fleshly Israel had once been God's people but are now cast off.
--The Gentiles were once NOT God's people but are now grafted in.
This rules out the Calvinistic idea of individual, unconditional election. God's chosen can lose their salvation (Romans 11:20-22).

So again, God's people has always been ANYONE who OBEYS Him, God NEVER rejected anyone who obeyed Him:

Romans 4:11-12 "And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision; that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; (12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."

Abraham was the fleshly father of all the Jews, but he was the real father of those Jews AND Gentiles who "walk in the steps of that faith of...Abraham" i,e., Abraham is the father of ANYONE who has an obedient faith as Abraham. Hence Abraham's true descendants and God's people are those who follow Abraham's example in walking in an obedient faith. So ANYONE who is obedient to God, in spirit not in letter, who has had a 'circumcision of the heart" (Romans 2:29) is a Jew, a descendant of Abraham, is of God's people.

(Romans 2:17) - those disobedient fleshly Jews who stole (Romans 2:21) who committed adultery and sacrilege (Romans 2:22) and dishonored God (Romans 2:23), causing God's name to be blasphemed among the Gentiles (Romans 2:24) were, according to Paul, not fit to have the name "Jew". For again, the real true Jew, according to Paul, is the obedient person, ANYONE who has had a circumcision of the heart per Romans 2:29.

(Romans 9:8) "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Simple fleshly descent does not make one a child of God. But those who walk in the steps of Abraham, who follow his example of obedience are the children of promise, are the true seed of Abraham. ANYONE among the "families of the earth" (Genesis 12:3) who, again, walk in faith as Abraham (Romans 4:12) are the children of Abraham, are counted for the seed.

Romans 11:28-29
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies (the enemies are the unbelieving Jews, not believing Jews as Paul) but because of God's election (election of men who obey the gospel) they are beloved (the unbelieving Jews are still beloved by God for the sakes of the Jews' fathers Abraham, Isaac, Jacob).

And because the unbelieving Jews are still beloved, in casting them off, God did not make salvation impossible for them. If God had made salvation impossible for the fleshly Jew in casting them off, then God would have to 'repent', that is, God would have to makes changes, make amendments to promises He made as the one in Genesis 12:3 to exclude the Jew. He would have to amend the NT's great commission to exclude the Jew. But since God's casting away of the fleshly Jew did NOT make salvation impossible for them, they could still be saved by belief in Christ, therefore God does not have to repent and change His calling and promises. The fleshly Jew can find salvation through Christ in becoming a Christian. So there is no need for a rapture or a 1000 years reign where the unbelieving Jew can then be saved. But they can be saved, past and present, through Christ for God's calling and promises remain unchanged. Yet if the fleshly Jew cannot be saved, past or present, through Christ and His church, then God would have had to repent and make changes to His calling and promises.


Therefore today, Christians are God's people and anyone, Jew or Gentile, MUST become a Christian to be saved, to be God's people whom He foreknew.

Will all the fleshy Jews who have lived and died from 2000 years ago until today, will they be saved or lost? If they will be saved, how will they saved?

 

[Executioner]

It's obvious that replacement theology is a lie, but with that does this verse in Romans shoot down the whole heresy in one statement: Romans 11: 1 "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!"

Of course not!
God never replaced His people with the Jews,
Jesus grafted them into the other fold as it is written in the Book of John.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[Executioner]

Yes, it is a lie, and it illustrates the fact that lies are generally more powerful than the truth.

There is no power in your word.

 

[Executioner]

I will go back to this and read more.

Why?