Revelation 11 and Revelation 12

[Douggg]

Here is my side by side table that I made comparing the verses in Revelation 11 to the verses in Revelation 12. I made the table in two parts to cover all the verses. The7th trumpet sounds, resulting in the third woe - Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Basically the second half of the 7 years.

 

[Jay Ross]

Here is my side by side table that I made comparing the verses in Revelation 11 to the verses in Revelation 12. I made the table in two parts to cover all the verses. The7th trumpet sounds, resulting in the third woe - Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Basically the second half of the 7 years.

Sadly D, you are again showing your lack of understanding.

Satan will be cast down to the earth in around 20 years' time when he is judged in heaven with the other heavenly hosts and as soon as he arrives on the face of the earth (Rev 20:1-3) he is immediately imprisoned in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years. Then After he is released from the Bottomless Pit, (Rev 20:7-10) he realises that he has little time to achieve his goal of becoming a deity king over all of the peoples of the earth. Satan initially goes after the nation of Israel (Rev 12:13-16 to wipe it off the face of the earth but his plan cannot be executed as Israel is swept away by God into the desert and is protected. Then Satan goes after the Christians who keep to the Commandments of God and holds to the testimony of Jesus. (Rev 12:17)

You have forgotten that embedded within the story told in Rev 12, there is a 1,000 year period which we are informed about in other scriptural passages that must be considered when reading Rev 12.

Goodbye.

PS: - my 7,000th post.

 

[Douggg]

Sadly D, you are again showing your lack of understanding.

Satan will be cast down to the earth in around 20 years' time when he is judged in heaven with the other heavenly hosts and as soon as he arrives on the face of the earth (Rev 20:1-3) he is immediately imprisoned in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years. Then After he is released from the Bottomless Pit, (Rev 20:7-10) he realises that he has little time to achieve his goal of becoming a deity king over all of the peoples of the earth. Satan initially goes after the nation of Israel (Rev 12:13-16 to wipe it off the face of the earth but his plan cannot be executed as Israel is swept away by God into the desert and is protected. Then Satan goes after the Christians who keep to the Commandments of God and holds to the testimony of Jesus. (Rev 12:17)

You have forgotten that embedded within the story told in Rev 12, there is a 1,000 year period which we are informed about in other scriptural passages that must be considered when reading Rev 12.

Goodbye.

PS: - my 7,000th post.

Congratulations on your 7,000th post, Jay

Revelation 12:7-9 has Satan and his angels cast down to earth, and then having but a time, times, half time left.

Left till Jesus returns. Left of their so-called Babylon the Great kingdom.

On the day that Jesus returns, Satan is at that time cast into the bottomless pit prison for one thousand years.

After the one thousand years are over, Satan will be released to deceive the nation one last time. And after a failed attempt at destroying the camp of the saints (Israel), Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10.

 

[Davidpt]

Sadly D, you are again showing your lack of understanding.

Satan will be cast down to the earth in around 20 years' time when he is judged in heaven with the other heavenly hosts and as soon as he arrives on the face of the earth (Rev 20:1-3) he is immediately imprisoned in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years. Then After he is released from the Bottomless Pit, (Rev 20:7-10) he realises that he has little time to achieve his goal of becoming a deity king over all of the peoples of the earth. Satan initially goes after the nation of Israel (Rev 12:13-16 to wipe it off the face of the earth but his plan cannot be executed as Israel is swept away by God into the desert and is protected. Then Satan goes after the Christians who keep to the Commandments of God and holds to the testimony of Jesus. (Rev 12:17)

You have forgotten that embedded within the story told in Rev 12, there is a 1,000 year period which we are informed about in other scriptural passages that must be considered when reading Rev 12.

Goodbye.

PS: - my 7,000th post.

Jay, where exactly do you see the thousand years fitting within Revelation 12? Speaking for myself, the only place I can see it fitting is at the end of what verse 17 is involving.


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


IOW, when this has run it's course, thus is in the past---and went to make war with the remnant of her seed---what eventually follows is the beginning of the thousand years. If you see a better place where the thousand years fit within Revelation 12, I'm all ears.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, where exactly do you see the thousand years fitting within Revelation 12? Speaking for myself, the only place I can see it fitting is at the end of what verse 17 is involving.

Rev 12:7-13: - 7 Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

The start of the 1,000 years of Satan, the beast, the Little Horn/The false prophet and the kings of the earth being imprisoned in the bottomless pit.

10And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying:
“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of His Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down—
he who accuses them day and night before our God.
11They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony.
And they did not love their lives
so as to shy away from death.
12Therefore rejoice, O heavens,
and you who dwell in them!

The end of the 1,000 years that Satan will be imprisoned in the Bottomless pit.

But woe to the earth and the sea;
with great fury the devil has come down to you,
knowing he has only a short time.”

The Woman Persecuted

13And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

If you want more proof, Jesus confirmed this in the Parable of the Minas in Luke 19. All that you have to do is simply join the dots knowing that the man who goes away for a time is Satan.

 

[Douggg]

The start of the 1,000 years of Satan, the beast, the Little Horn/The false prophet and the kings of the earth being imprisoned in the bottomless pit.

Jay, at the start of the 1000 years, in Revelation 20:1-3, Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit.

In Revelation 19:20, the beast and the false prophet, will have just been cast into the lake of fire.


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here is my side by side table that I made comparing the verses in Revelation 11 to the verses in Revelation 12. I made the table in two parts to cover all the verses. The7th trumpet sounds, resulting in the third woe - Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Basically the second half of the 7 years.


View attachment 45545
View attachment 45548

You are completely off base here. Revelation 12 is not a chronological continuation of the seventh trumpet . The events related to the seventh trumpet are described in Revelation 11:15-19, not in Revelation 12. Revelation 12 is a parenthetical section of scripture. Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven around the time of Christ's resurrection and ascension to heaven. Because Satan was cast out of heaven he could no longer accuse God's people in heaven day and night as he did before. That's why Paul could write this:

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

No one, including Satan, can make accusations against those who belong to God any longer because we have been made clean and have been forgiven of our sins. How can he accuse us of anything when our sins are forgiven? He can't. So, he is not in heaven any longer accusing us. He was cast out long ago. Revelation 12 should be understood accordingly. Your assumption that what is described in Revelation 12 chronologically follows what is described at the end of Revelation 11 is false. Just look at Revelation 12:5. It describes the birth and ascension of Christ. Clearly, Revelation 12 is not a description of events during or following the seventh trumpet.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jay, where exactly do you see the thousand years fitting within Revelation 12? Speaking for myself, the only place I can see it fitting is at the end of what verse 17 is involving.


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


IOW, when this has run it's course, thus is in the past---and went to make war with the remnant of her seed---what eventually follows is the beginning of the thousand years. If you see a better place where the thousand years fit within Revelation 12, I'm all ears.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This describes the birth of Christ and His ascension. What does other scripture teach was true as of the time of His resurrection and ascension?

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

This passage clearly has Jesus taken a position of complete power and authority over all things at the time of His resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father. That is when He began to reign. And Revelation 20 indicates that He reigns during the thousand years. So, it only follows that the part of Revelation 12 that fits with the thousand years is the part that shows when His reign began which was generally around the time of His resurrection and ascension. It was at that time that Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven. Why would they be allowed there any longer once Christ rose from the dead and took His place in power "above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named...in this world" with the Father having "put all things under his feet"?

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, at the start of the 1000 years, in Revelation 20:1-3, Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit.

In Revelation 19:20, the beast and the false prophet, will have just been cast into the lake of fire.


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Dougggg both Rev 19's and Rev 20's starting point on the timeline for the end of days occurs at the same time and the end times for both chapters when the beast, the False Prophet and Satan are dispatched into the Lake of fire is also relatively at the same time.

The battle at the end of Rev 19 is the same battle that is described in Ezekiel 38-39 which is also the same Gog Magog battle described in Rev 20. You seem to have a comprehension problem with what we are being told in the scriptures.

It is you who needs to prove that your understanding is in line with God's timeline.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This describes the birth of Christ and His ascension. What does other scripture teach was true as of the time of His resurrection and ascension?

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

This passage clearly has Jesus taken a position of complete power and authority over all things at the time of His resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father. That is when He began to reign. And Revelation 20 indicates that He reigns during the thousand years. So, it only follows that the part of Revelation 12 that fits with the thousand years is the part that shows when His reign began which was generally around the time of His resurrection and ascension. It was at that time that Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven. Why would they be allowed there any longer once Christ rose from the dead and took His place in power "above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named...in this world" with the Father having "put all things under his feet"?

Sadly, Spiritual Israelite, it seems that you are just as confused as poor Douggg with respect to the timeline of the end times and how the end times will unfold.

Goodbye

 

[ewq1938]

The events of Rev 12 precede the events of Rev 11.

Rev 11 shows the end of the trib
Rev 12 shows events from Christ's birth to the mention of the start of the trib (last verse)
Rev 13 shows the start of the trib

Of course there originally were no chp or verse numbers. One simply had to read the verses and be able to identify the timeframe of the events.

 

[Douggg]

Dougggg both Rev 19's and Rev 20's starting point on the timeline for the end of days occurs at the same time and the end times for both chapters when the beast, the False Prophet and Satan are dispatched into the Lake of fire is also relatively at the same time.

Are you considering a thousand years spread - as relatively at the same time ?

beast and false prophet into the lake of fire.

Then a thousand years later Satan into the lake of fire.

 

[Jay Ross]

Are you considering a thousand years spread - as relatively at the same time ?

beast and false prophet into the lake of fire.

Then a thousand years later Satan into the lake of fire.

Is your comprehension that bad that you cannot put the timeline together to reflect what is to happen during the seventh age, which is just a little longer than 1,000 years means that the years of imprisonment of the judged heavenly hosts in heaven, i.e., Satan, the Beast, the False prophet, as well as the judged kings of the earth at Armageddon (which occurs at the very beginning of the seventh Age) lasts for the first 1,000 years of the Seventh age. Then after the 1,000 years of their imprisonment in the Bottomless pit, the pit is unlocked and then Satan, the beast, the False Prophet and the Kings of the earth all rise up out of the bottomless pit and perform the acts attributed to them before they are dispatched into the Lake of fire towards the end of the seventh age during the Little While period within a very short period of time after which Christ come on the Clouds with all of the Heavenly hosts to descend to the face of the earth from where He will judge the peoples of the earth.

The book of Revelation is not a linear account of the end time events as you are attempting to present.

Because of your linear arrangement of the events of the Book of Revelation, your timeline has grown such that it does not fit within the confines of the Seventh Age.

Douggg, you are simple barking up the wrong tree in what you are presenting.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

Then after the 1,000 years of their imprisonment in the Bottomless pit, the pit is unlocked and then Satan, the beast, the False Prophet and the Kings of the earth all rise up out of the bottomless pit

What bible verse(s) in Revelation states that the false prophet and the beast are....

1. imprisoned in the bottomless pit.
2. rise up out of the bottomless pit.

--------------------------------------------------------

Why does Revelation 19:20 not include Satan ?

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Jay Ross]

What bible verse(s) in Revelation states that the false prophet and the beast are....

1. imprisoned in the bottomless pit.
2. rise up out of the bottomless pit.

--------------------------------------------------------

Why does Revelation 19:20 not include Satan ?

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

In answer to your first question joining the dots with the verses below confirms that they will be in the pit and that they will rise up out of the pit which goes down into the earth.

Rev 13:11: - 11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth.
Rev 17:8: - 8 The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.

As for Satan not being included in Rev 19:20, the same question could be asked as to why the beast and the false prophet were not included in Rev 20:10. In other words you are grasping at straws to find a reason to argue against what I have posted.

A rather feeble attempt to argue against the scriptures.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

In answer to your first question joining the dots with the verses below confirms that they will be in the pit and that they will rise up out of the pit which goes down into the earth.

Rev 13:11: - 11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth.
Rev 17:8: - 8 The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.

Jay, you have incorrectly joined the dots.

There are two beasts in Revelation 13. One which comes out of the sea - i.e. the nations. And a second beast that comes out the earth - i.e. Israel.

The second beast is the first prophet. The first beast as a whole represents the kingdom of the beast-king, who is mortally wounded but healed head on that kingdom.

Revelation 17:8 is about the mystery of the scarlet colored beast having seven heads and ten horns. There are several different interpretations of that verse.

As for Satan not being included in Rev 19:20, the same question could be asked as to why the beast and the false prophet were not included in Rev 20:10. In other words you are grasping at straws to find a reason to argue against what I have posted.

The beast and false prophet in Revelation 20:10 will already have been in the lake of fire for a thousand years before Satan is cast there as well.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Davidpt]

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And some people dispute the 'are' that the translators added to the text. As if it makes sense of the text if it were to say this instead--- And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Where the beast and false prophet? What is that supposed to mean? That is not even a coherent sentence.

Maybe it means this---where the beast and false prophet are not? Or maybe it means this---where the beast and false prophet were? Anything but this---where the beast and false prophet are. As in they are already there before satan is. No wonder Revelation 19:20 does not mention one single thing about satan also getting cast into the LOF at the time. Because that is not when satan initially gets cast into the LOF, obviously. Because if it was John would have plainly said so in Revelation 19:20.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, you have incorrectly joined the dots.

So be it Douggg. You have your understanding and yet I cannot match your understanding to what the scriptures present will happen in the end times. I and the scriptures present only one 1,000 year period while you claim that there are two 1,000 year periods.

Time will tell, however what is important is our belief in God and Christ and the Holy Spirit, because our speculation of what will happen in the future is irrelevant as the future tribulation has no impact on our lives at this present time.

I might be still alive to see the judgement of the kings of the earth at Armageddon in around 20 years time, but I am not holding my breathe till then in the hope that i will see it, but if it does happen then, this time of judgement not only of the kings of the earth but also of the fallen heavenly hosts will confirm what I have been posting.

We can keep banging on about our opinions as to what will happen and when the end time events will happen but who has incorrectly joined the dots together is God's to judge.

Goodbye

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sadly, Spiritual Israelite, it seems that you are just as confused as poor Douggg with respect to the timeline of the end times and how the end times will unfold.

Goodbye

Such a convincing argument that you made here. Great job, Jay.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And some people dispute the 'are' that the translators added to the text. As if it makes sense of the text if it were to say this instead--- And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Where the beast and false prophet? What is that supposed to mean? That is not even a coherent sentence.

Maybe it means this---where the beast and false prophet are not? Or maybe it means this---where the beast and false prophet were? Anything but this---where the beast and false prophet are. As in they are already there before satan is. No wonder Revelation 19:20 does not mention one single thing about satan also getting cast into the LOF at the time. Because that is not when satan initially gets cast into the LOF, obviously. Because if it was John would have plainly said so in Revelation 19:20.

Just because the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire before Satan does not mean Satan can't be cast there soon after them. It's only your assumption that what is described in Revelation 20 chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 19 that leads you to believe that Satan is cast there long after the best and false prophet are.