The days shall be shortened for the sake of His elect. There will always be believers being martyred. But many of us will see the Lord in these current bodies.
Revelation 13:12 says "everyone on earth, will be forced to worship the beast", does that mean everyone on earth needs to repent? (refuse to repent?)
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes, Jesus said "It is finished" before He gave up the ghost, dying on the cross. Which was the end of what He had explained was what and who He had come for, saying, "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).
But you bring up a good point of Jesus' love and sacrifice which He did for "all nations." As I was saying regarding the enactment of biblical events as being smaller, while what was and is in heaven--which these historic events reveal here on earth--Israel of the Jews and Israelites, for the gentiles is a prelude in what is likewise a smaller form. Which is the fulfillment of "I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth" (Isaiah 49:6).
Where are the verses from Christ THROUGH Paul that support your 'theory' ?
""HyperPauline""
What does Acts 9:15, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 teach you about Paul ?
and the verses from Paul (Romans to Philemon) that supports your claim are ?
ps Hebrews < The Bible does not state that Paul wrote Hebrews :)
" It is finished " for all of mankind. There is no hierchy when it comes to salvation. We are all equal in God's eyes. Agreed?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
I guess to you the bible is a gamble.
"Hoping Paul never wrote hebrews"
Pssst...it was not a different unlearned Holy Spirit that wrote the non pauline epistles.
You guys have the bible as a trap.
Most of it misleading and Paul as the hero straightening out the lesser inspired books that a confused Holy Spirit wrote to the readers detriment.
Look at how readily you shoot down the bible.
It is as ridiculous as someone saying "romans was written to romans"
"It is not for Americans"
ScottA
Well-Known Member
It's your gamble if you want to avoid what Christ through Paul teaches that applies to you.
psst, try studying Acts 9:15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
Davy
Well-Known Member
As for Christ's Salvation, yes, of course all believers are equal with being 'saved' by Jesus' Blood shed upon His cross.
However... the REWARDS in His future literal Kingdom on this earth when He returns will NOT necessarily be the same for all believers on Lord Jesus Christ...
Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV
Lord Jesus said the above to His Apostles, and He linked that glory with those still existing twelve tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom.
So none of the Christ's Kingdom at His coming will be floating up in the sky, a Utopia in the sky where everyone is exactly equal in duties and rewards. Nope, our works is what makes up our righteous clothing in Christ, and will determine what kind of rewards we will receive from The Lord.
Friend, what you believe is very contrary to scripture.
You said: "our works is what makes up our righteous clothing in Christ,"
And Jesus said: " Timothy 3:5:
"not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"
There is no one greater than one another in God's eyes, no hierarchy here, or in the world to come. That is a fleshly teaching and has nothing to do with Christ being our main focus. We are all one in Him, all worshipping at His feet. He is our righteousness, not some system of rewards for "our" works.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
I am more "pauline" than most believers.
That does not allow me to cast down the other books of the bible, WRITTEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
You painted yourself in a corner thinking 2 Holy Spirits wrote the Bible.
Or worse..that Paul wrote the letters all by himself, and corrected the traps set by Peter and Jesus.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
True. Even those "chosen" and those "sent" or "called" to do a special work, God has chosen from the least of men--even using a donkey to speak, showing that without Him even the best of those chosen are little more than a beast of burden.
NayborBear
Active Member
Well first, I do agree with ya. And, methinks is caused by us born of flesh and blood to drift(?) too far into the evil and wickedness that is in each one of our hearts(emotions) and minds(I don't want my children to have as hard a time surviving as I/we had).
Meaning like the work/s of our hands, and the minds of those clever (not in a good sense) people, that, much like Nimrod, strive in creating implements to make "life" so much less of a P.I.T.A. Like the "pill-poppin pain-a-phobic" hordes we have let ourselves believe is the better way to live.
Many of us are seduced and/or decieved by these, and vexed by traditions, peer, societal, as well as cultural pressures in going along to get along!
And, I concur with your interpretation of the when this occurred as well!
1 John 4:2-3
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
And, this was way back then!
I'll even submit this occurred long before John!
The damage this has done, has forced us born of flesh and blood, and, those striving to mature more in the faith, to much like water, in following the path of least resistance!
And it's a hard struggle/fight folks!
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
(just started reading this thread and felt compelled to reply)
I don't understand why you said
"and will determine what kind of rewards we will receive from The Lord."
Wouldn't eternal life be the ultimate reward? Anything besides that sounds like worldly competition. " I did more works so therefore I received more rewards.... sounds Catholic, or worldly. It's not taught in scripture.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It is taught in scripture. We (believers) will all receive eternal life, but there are scriptures which indicate we will also receive awards of some kind or another as well.
1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Luke 19:11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’ 15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’ 20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’ 24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
This is a parable, so Jesus was not talking about believers literally receiving a reward of having authority over cities, but this does indicate that believers will be rewarded in some way when He returns beyond the eternal life we will all receive. Matthew 25:14-30 is a similar parable.
NayborBear
Active Member
Think parable of the talents.
Then?
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
And?
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Which is different from this:
Romans 9:26
And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
But? Yes! Eternal life is a reward for sure!
Meaning there is a difference from going unto the Father, and remaining in the Son, as a child.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Aaah...@Davy must have said that (you referenced us both, so I replied. But that part wasn't me).
Davy
Well-Known Member
Amazing, you are speaking of TWO DIFFERENT SUBJECTS ABOVE, and you don't even realize it!
Of course our works do NOT save us. I never implied a Salvation by works.
But the REWARDS, that's a different subject.
I really wish brethren here would actually read... their Bible, instead of trying to create their own Bible...
Rev 14:12-13
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, 'Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
KJV
Let me see if I understand..... We're not saved by our works but we sure are rewarded for them. I'm sure that's not going to cause friction in heaven.
I believe that whatever opportunities that God gives His children vary, but at the end of the journey our reward is the same for all, which is eternal life. I don't think someone is going to have fluffier wings or a more radiant halo than someone else.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Tell us how you interpret this passage...
1 Corinthians 3:11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Notice that Paul talks about a reward that is beyond the salvation we all will receive.
How do you interpret this parable:
Matthew 25:14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’ 26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Notice that Jesus talks about making his faithful servants rulers over many things. That is a reward beyond the eternal life we will all be given.
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