Revelation 13 (The Beast) A Future Human Man

[Marty fox]

Why say that to avoid the fact that the beast and ten kings of Rev 13 have not appeared yet? That is what we are discussing.

So you’re avoiding by saying I’m that avoiding.

Im not avoiding because I said that they have appeared.

 

[ewq1938]

So you’re avoiding by saying I’m that avoiding.

Im not avoiding because I said that they have appeared.

They have not appeared. None of Rev 13 has happened, nor the last half of Rev 11.

 

[Truth7t7]

So you’re avoiding by saying I’m that avoiding.

Im not avoiding because I said that they have appeared.

Yes you made the claim they appeared in the 70AD Jerusalem destruction

 

[Earburner]

Of the two beasts only one is a man, the false prophet. This is the same man Paul called the man of sin, who performs miracles to deceive people, the same thing the FP will do.

If you look closely in the prophecies of Daniel, you will see that horns represent political or military authority and the might of a man/men or kingdoms. In the literal world of beasts (animals), horns are mainly used for offense and defense.
By taking and applying that example to the two beasts in Revelation, the ten horns on the sea beast has been long prophesied of, but are not manifested/appointed any authority until just before Jesus returns from Heaven in all His visible Glory.

As for the land beast with two horns like a lamb and spoke as dragon, one must learn that literal Lambs are born with "horn buds", being small knubs, symbolically revealing that the land beast in Revelation is being depicted as young, aka a world ruling power that rises from dry land, where there never was a nation, having a "voice" speaking deceptively, as does the dragon, aka satan.

As for the two horns on that beast, it can only symbolize one of two things:
It is in a joint relationship with another world ruling nation operating as one, or the two horns symbolize two forms of political government within it, that rule together as one.

As for the manifestation of worldly power, today there are only five phases of authority that are able to overtake, control and/or unify people and nations.
In their order, through time, all the phases of ruling people have appeared, except one:
1. Militarily.
2. Religiously.
3. Politically.
4. Medically.
5. Economically.

It is the Two Horned Beast that makes fire (military weapons) come down from heaven (the atmosphere) and calls to the people of the world, that THEY should make "an image" of/to the Ten Horned Beast.
The Two Horned Beast then gives life (legislative authority) to the Image, of which then the Image itself CAUSES all the world to worship (be in compliance with) "the Mark" of the Ten Horned Beast.

And for that, THE people of the world have made the Image, having been given it's own authority.
Do you know what the Image's name is, ever since 1945?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you know what the Image's name is, ever since 1945?

The image doesn't exist yet. Any supposed name will be wrong.

 

[Timtofly]

Curious
Is this past or future event in Rev. 18 ?
Rev.17 says the Ten Kings are going to destroy the city with fire and eat her flesh.
Seem like in Ezk. 39 God won't let them to destroy Israel.
Zech.14 does mention only half the city is taken but God does not allow them to destroy her. But does saves them.

Its really knowing how big Babylon is, how far the Harlot boundary are , she does reaches out to those Ten nation kingdoms.
I doubt as the world is that Jerusalem is going to expand while Jesus is not there Lord.

Not the literal city. They are going to destroy the religious belief system, and "redecorate" the city in their own humanism.

 

[Timtofly]

Of course they hadn’t shown up yet at the time revelation was written

God used Rome to destroy Jerusalem for His purpose

Luke 19
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

This is not about Revelation. Revelation is about after the fulness of the Gentiles.

Jesus was talking about the destruction in 70AD in Luke. Jesus was not talking about the Second Coming which Revelation 17 and 18 is about. Paul declared the fulness of the Gentiles had already started during his ministry, and that was a decade or more prior to 70AD. Paul did not even live past 65AD. Yes the rebellion dragged out for years, to the third and fourth generation of those alive at the Cross. Paul was still a teenager when the Cross event happened. He was dead before Jerusalem was destroyed. So multiple generations involved, not just a single generation as was written in Matthew 24.

 

[Marty fox]

This is not about Revelation. Revelation is about after the fulness of the Gentiles.

Jesus was talking about the destruction in 70AD in Luke. Jesus was not talking about the Second Coming which Revelation 17 and 18 is about. Paul declared the fulness of the Gentiles had already started during his ministry, and that was a decade or more prior to 70AD. Paul did not even live past 65AD. Yes the rebellion dragged out for years, to the third and fourth generation of those alive at the Cross. Paul was still a teenager when the Cross event happened. He was dead before Jerusalem was destroyed. So multiple generations involved, not just a single generation as was written in Matthew 24.

Of course Jesus was talking about 70AD and not the second coming that was my point you keep miss understanding what I am saying and miss quoting me.

I have no idea why you are talking about Paul

 

[Timtofly]

Why did you avoid the Luke 19 verses?

Rome did it in their own evil ways for Gods purpose Just as shown in Revelation 17

Rome is not found in Revelation 17. You can claim the 4th kingdom, but here is the verse:

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

The 6th kingdom, the "one is"; is now. Rome was the 4th kingdom.

The 7th is not yet come, because we are in the 6th still. The image from Daniel 2, and the 10 toes stopped at the time of the Reformation. The governments after the time of the Reformation until now is the 6th kingdom. The 7th kingdom is earth during the GT. Jesus and the angels are on the earth during this time. It will be very short.

The ten kings are not the 10 toes. The ten kings are not the 7th nor the 8th kingdoms

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

The ten horns have never been in history period. They have had no kingdom, they do not now, and they won't even in Satan's empire. They only have authority for 60 minutes.

There has yet to be a 7th kingdom. Then Satan's Babylonian empire is the 8th that was, is not, and will be the last. So what these 10 horns represent is the power grab at the end of the 8th kingdom that gathers to fight at Armageddon against Jesus. They get rid of the harlot to gain Satan's attention.

 

[Marty fox]

Rome is not found in Revelation 17. You can claim the 4th kingdom, but here is the verse:

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

The 6th kingdom, the "one is"; is now. Rome was the 4th kingdom.

The 7th is not yet come, because we are in the 6th still. The image from Daniel 2, and the 10 toes stopped at the time of the Reformation. The governments after the time of the Reformation until now is the 6th kingdom. The 7th kingdom is earth during the GT. Jesus and the angels are on the earth during this time. It will be very short.

The ten kings are not the 10 toes. The ten kings are not the 7th nor the 8th kingdoms

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

The ten horns have never been in history period. They have had no kingdom, they do not now, and they won't even in Satan's empire. They only have authority for 60 minutes.

There has yet to be a 7th kingdom. Then Satan's Babylonian empire is the 8th that was, is not, and will be the last. So what these 10 horns represent is the power grab at the end of the 8th kingdom that gathers to fight at Armageddon against Jesus. They get rid of the harlot to gain Satan's attention.

Once again you claim something that you think I believe that I don’t. I have never said that Rome is the fourth kingdom because I don’t believe that they are. Do you notice that you’re debating with me is based on things that I have never said?

 

[Timtofly]

Of course Jesus was talking about 70AD and not the second coming that was my point you keep miss understanding what I am saying and miss quoting me.

I have no idea why you are talking about Paul

I was pointing out that 70AD was way more than a single generation, from when Jesus spoke those words on the Mount of Olives.

Luke is not the exact same scenario as Matthew.

Paul expected to be alive at the Second Coming. But it has been over 1900 years and still no Second Coming. Yes, the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed, but that is all that happened. No kingdoms from Revelation, because Rome was the 4th Empire/Kingdom and had not even divided into East and West in 70AD.

 

[Timtofly]

Once again you claim something that you think I believe that I don’t. I have never said that Rome is the fourth kingdom because I don’t believe that they are. Do you notice that you’re debating with me is based on things that I have never said?

Because you brought up Revelation 17.

Unless you stick with Scripture, you can believe anything you want. If you start mentioning Scripture, you would not even be close to the Scriptures you mention.

The Rome that destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD was the 4th Kingdom. It came immediately after Greece which was the 3rd Kingdom.

 

[Marty fox]

I was pointing out that 70AD was way more than a single generation, from when Jesus spoke those words on the Mount of Olives.

Luke is not the exact same scenario as Matthew.

Paul expected to be alive at the Second Coming. But it has been over 1900 years and still no Second Coming. Yes, the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed, but that is all that happened. No kingdoms from Revelation, because Rome was the 4th Empire/Kingdom and had not even divided into East and West in 70AD.

The Olivit discourse was within 40 years of 70AD that is within one generation

I still have no idea why you bring Paul into this

 

[Marty fox]

Because you brought up Revelation 17.

Unless you stick with Scripture, you can believe anything you want. If you start mentioning Scripture, you would not even be close to the Scriptures you mention.

The Rome that destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD was the 4th Kingdom. It came immediately after Greece which was the 3rd Kingdom.

You really are confusing in your replies to me you say random things and then claim that I believe things that I don't believe. I really do understand what you’re getting at.

 

[Timtofly]

The Olivit discourse was within 40 years of 70AD that is within one generation

I still have no idea why you bring Paul into this

Not when life expectancy was 35. Just look how many Ceasers there were between 30AD and 70AD. I pointed out that Paul was dead before 70AD, and he lived for over 60 years. Not every one lived that long.

Why do you insist a generation has to be 40 years?

Most generations are every 15 to 20 years.

 

[strepho]

Second thessalonians chapter 2, the son of perdition is satan. He comes 6th trump in his role as antichrist. Its 5 month period. Satan will claim to be messiah in Jerusalem. Read second thessalonians chapter 2. And read ephesians chapter 6, wisdom and knowledge of Gods word is the gospel armour. Those who are biblically illiterate will worship antichrist.

 

[ewq1938]

Second thessalonians chapter 2, the son of perdition is satan. He comes 6th trump in his role as antichrist. Its 5 month period.

It's 42 months not 5 months. You are spouting Shepherd Chapel nonsense.