Revival is not intellectual.

[marks]

I Think we have hit the nail on the head of where you and i differ.
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (Matthew 22:37)

Renewing of the heart is when the believer begins to walk in the Spirit...

You are cherry picking words from a verse that doesn't speak toward renewing.

The renewing that Scripture speaks of is renewing the mind.

In the verse you are quoting, Jesus speak of loving God with your heart, soul and mind. If you were being consistent you'd be speaking of renewing the soul also, but I expect you leave it out since it doesn't serve your purpose and you realize it would be indefensible.

Simply because you can find a passage that uses those words doesn't give you the authority to change around such plainly worded Scripture, such as,

Romans 12:2 KJV
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:23 KJV
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Colossians 3:10 KJV
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Much love!

 

[David H.]

That's not it.

You assert that we, as Christians, as well as the church, lack what we need for real godly living, as we await a second spiritual baptism, while I assert we are already fully baptized into Christ, and can fully participate in His life by trusting He has already given us all we need to do so.

That is it, You deny that there is more of you that needs to be renewed than just the mind.

 

[David H.]

In the verse you are quoting, Jesus speak of loving God with your heart, soul and mind. If you were being consistent you'd be speaking of renewing the soul also, but I expect you leave it out since it doesn't serve your purpose and you realize it would be indefensible.

our soul is renewed when we are Born again.
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Leviticus 17:11)

 

[marks]

That is it, You deny that there is more of you that needs to be renewed than just the mind.

You may feel like you've got a real "gotcha" moment, but you twist my words.

The Bible says we are to renew our minds. Do think that is somehow incomplete?

Romans 12:2 KJV
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:23 KJV
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Colossians 3:10 KJV
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Let's talk Biblically. Instead of trying to play "gotcha".

Do you have some other passages in mind that speak of the renewing that is the happen in the Christian?

Post them, let's look. But we need to keep to what the Bible actually says.

Much love!

 

[marks]

our soul is renewed when we are Born again.
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Leviticus 17:11)

This is speak of making atonement, in the First Covenant, with Israel at Mount Horeb.

Are you saying the Covenant of Law brought rebirth to the one who offered a sacrifice? Why then would they need to continue to offer sacrifices?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

The renewing that Scripture speaks of is renewing the mind.

Renewing of the soul=Born again= a child of the faith
Renewing of the mind= Putting on the new man= Young man of the faith
Renewing of the heart= Walking in the Spirit= Father/ elder of the faith

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. (1 John 2:12-14)

 

[marks]

our soul is renewed when we are Born again.

Is this the Scriptures?

2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 4:24 KJV
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Now, with these in mind,

Ephesians 4:22-24 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Renewing of the soul=Born again= a child of the faith
Renewing of the mind= Putting on the new man= Young man of the faith
Renewing of the heart= Walking in the Spirit= Father/ elder of the faith

All sounds well and good . . . but these are not statements of Scripture, they are your statements.

Scripture speaks of receiving a new heart, and of renewing the mind.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

You may feel like you've got a real "gotcha" moment, but you twist my words.

The Bible says we are to renew our minds. Do think that is somehow incomplete?

Our mindis only part of who we are, correct? So Yes to have your mind renewed only is not to have the whole of us renewed.

 

[David H.]

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Do You understand what is the "spirit of your mind" spoken of here?

 

[David H.]

All sounds well and good . . . but these are not statements of Scripture, they are your statements.

Scripture speaks of receiving a new heart, and of renewing the mind.

This is the whole counsel of scripture, this is what the Apostolic church understood, that we have forgotten or fail to comprehend, this the doctrine that keeps us from falling into complacency, and keeps us growing in the faith, This is what the Nicolaitans do not want you to find out.. I see this throughout new testament in the epistles.... for example:

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:12-14)

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:1-2)

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: (1 Peter 2:2)

Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule,[fn] let us be of the same mind. (Philippians 3:15-16, NKJV)

 

[marks]

Our mindis only part of who we are, correct? So Yes to have your mind renewed only is not to have the whole of us renewed.

Address the Scripture. You are making some kind of logical argument that the Scripture is somehow wrong or incomplete. If you stay with Scriptural terminology much confusion can be avoided.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Address the Scripture. You are making some kind of logical argument that the Scripture is somehow wrong or incomplete. If you stay with Scriptural terminology much confusion can be avoided.

If you had scripture written on your heart you would see this is scripture and not my imagination and mind games. Heart and mind are two different things in scripture, that make up who we are, and both have to be renewed....

 

[marks]

This is the whole counsel of scripture, this is what the Apostolic church understood, that we have forgotten or fail to comprehend, this the doctrine that keeps us from falling into complacency, and keeps us growing in the faith, This is what the Nicolaitans do not want you to find out.. I see this throughout new testament in the epistles.... for example:

When you get specific as you have been, I'll be wanting to see those very ideas presented in the Bible. Or I know it's just not Scripture.

The Bible speaks in terms of renewing the mind. You are of the impression that more than the mind is renewed during our Christian life. What specific Scripture do you have in mind that teached us about renewing other than our mind?

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:12-14)

Doe this passage somehow negate the Bible's teaching of renewing the mind?

If you won't use what you've already learned, how will you understand more? How will you discern between right and wrong? And what does this passage say about our renewing? Actually nothing. We can combine these teachings, though, and understand that our minds are renews according to the knowledge of our Creator, that we can become more skilled in the word of righteousness, and can become better discerning good and evil, when we use what we learn.

Teaching, learning, renewing the mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:1-2)

For lack of renewing the mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule,[fn] let us be of the same mind. (Philippians 3:15-16, NKJV)

. . .of the same mind.

Renewing the mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

that make up who we are, and both have to be renewed....

Not just your words, God's Words. The fact that you cannot should mean something to you, I would think! When I'm not able to support an Idea from the Bible, I discard it.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Doe this passage somehow negate the Bible's teaching of renewing the mind?

I Am not trying to negate the renewing of the mind, I never have been, this is part of our journey, and entirely Biblical. It is just not the only part of it. There is also the renewing of the heart.

The Bible speaks in terms of renewing the mind. You are of the impression that more than the mind is renewed during our Christian life. What specific Scripture do you have in mind that teached us about renewing other than our mind?

I Have given you many of those scriptures already. Look above, and in the links to the word heart... I have to run, get back to you later...
God bless.

 

[David H.]

. . .of the same mind.

Renewing the mind.

Read all of Philippians 3

 

[David H.]

Not just your words, God's Words. The fact that you cannot should mean something to you, I would think! When I'm not able to support an Idea from the Bible, I discard it.

What your heart knows, the mind cannot discard, neither can the mind comprehend what is in the heart, and what the heart knows.

The heart and mind are both part of who we are. For example, is love of the heart or the mind, or both?