i understand how some jobs in the church need to be paid for but come on guys 3 grand for a 1 year tsm wich is something jesus said we can all do if we have faith as small as a mustard seed. im the unemployed person and the way the church is going it seems im the only one. i mean the cheapest i saw this year at my church was fifteen pound for a 2 hour seminar on gods love. and yes every peny shame after bills and food im left with three pence. the church is going the same way as the world ie if you want it buy it if you cant?tough look go without.its realy humiliating saying sorry dude cant aford it when people sudenly become uncomfortable in the conversation like they think your gona ask them.
rising prices in church
- Thread starter carpe diem
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Prentis
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If we follow the way of Christ, we would freely preach a gospel that requires man to leave everything behind. Rather man has chosen to charge much money to preach a gospel that gives free salvation.
The perversion of the European and North American church is not small mistakes, but rather a turnaround that puts it in diametrical opposition to the way of Christ.
The perversion of the European and North American church is not small mistakes, but rather a turnaround that puts it in diametrical opposition to the way of Christ.
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Choir Loft
Been there, done that.
The problem is that such abandonment doesn't really solve anything. I learned that long ago, and now choose to stand and hammer away at it.
Maybe that's wrong too, but the alternative is to spend times apart from the fellowship and that's not right either.
The problem is with the shepards. The flock usually follows with mindless emotional devotion that person who they've appointed to stand up in front and speak God's word (or his particular spin on it). Most do not reckon the message right or wrong, especially when it is smooth and goes down sweetly. Many do not study and most haven't opened the Bible in years if at all.
When I was a child my mom told me the Bible was sacred. When it lay upon a table one should never pile any other book, magazine or trinket on top of it. Until the day she died, though, she never opened the thing and never read a single word of it. She chose instead to sit in church and let the minister do it for her. That's like going to school and expecting the teacher to do your homework for you. Crazy. Yet that's the way things are today. Couch potatoe Christians is what many of our number have become. The shepards, for the most part, encourage this attitude. It's their fault.
When I was in seminary for the Episcopal Church I learned the evil of this situation. The people in the pews didn't know the things that went on among the leaders; the ministers, the bishops and the diocese meetings. I protested. I searched for answers. The first answer of course was Jesus Christ and when I began to hammer away at that I was told to cease and desist or get out. So I left. Look where the Episcopal Church is today. Leaving isn't as good an idea as I once thought it was.
So today I sit in another church. A small one with small issues. And I'm beginning to hammer.
Prentis
New Member
Exactly!
Here's something interesting. Jesus says he who does not gather with me, scatters. We think that by going to a religious meeting, we follow the command to meet together, but if we gather with a group who divides itself from other groups by doctrine, they are actually scattering the body!
We must meet with the brothers, but are not required to go to a divisive brother, who scatters. Rather we must gather outside of those who scatter, WITH Christ, and let all others who see this also come gather with us.
Religious meetings have no unity in the Spirit, since they themselves separate from the body and walk by man's ways. We must meet with the brethren who do not scatter.
That is too bad brother money can be such a drag. I have heard that failing to tithe keeps the money from coming...
What is TSM? I personally myself don't believe the Church should sell any.....whatever is in the best interest of the gospel and people's need to hear that message should be free.
Jesus said freely have you receive freely give.
Matthew 10:8 (ASV)
[sup]8 [/sup]Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give.
The problem is a lot of Churches lack the faith that they need in God's ability to provide for the need of the Church.....it is reflected in the fact that some are happy to be exempted from paying taxes under the label of none profit organization. That is a lie, because many of the churches are for profit. Jesus never charged for the things He did for the people, even though He needed funds for food or whatever else they might need. He set a perfect example of trusting His Father to provide what He needed. And Jesus never relied on those who did not believe in Him to support His ministry.
Money is not the problem.....it’s a lack of faith in God to provide for what the Church needs without having to charge people for something that they should give away for free. And some of these pastors and evangelist make way too much money. They live in the lap of luxury while the average member struggles to make ends meet. The apostles never lived like that and neither did Jesus.
I would say something about first......God could use that person to wake that Church up.
tomwebster
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- Dec 11, 2006
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So why don't you all quit your jobs and go volunteer to work at a church for free or do you just want someone else to do it?
yep i think we need to heed Jesus warning
Matthew 7:15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].
The responsibility is on us. We have to take the bull by the horns and be serious about our own personal relationship with God because in the end, the bad shephards may lead us astray, but we are the ones who will be held accountable for not finding our way to the right field.
Not all religious leaders produce the fruits that Jesus said they should have. So we need to make a diligent search for the ones who DO produce the right fruits...both in themselves and in us.
And i'll tell you why people keep following the bad shephards...its because they dont use the bible. If you want to know if your religion/church is following Christ and producing the fruits of Christ, you must know what the bible says those fruits are and what they are not. this makes me think a thread on how to measure ones religion would be good. I might just do that.
We are talking about the Church not the individual Christian. The members are the once that provides what the Church needs to do what it should be doing.
An assistant pastor once told me that if you see a problem in the Church that no one else sees it is because God wants you to do something about it.
tomwebster
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Well, for the most part at least what we have is given away for free. So that is not a problem in the Church that I attend.
tsm training in supernatural ministrys ie healing etc. sorry should of explained earlier. the church is part of the new frontiers ministry.
What? Training someone to heal? If that is what I think it is it is silly. One cannot train someone to heal. It is a gift from God and it is by faith that one is able to heal.
Well lack of faith is part of it, so ill give you partial credit but English society in general is getting away from and even rediculing the church. It's a shift towards faith in education and the devices of man and rioting in the streets.
thats exactly what i thought although it may help people with the confidence initialy to aproach a complete stranger and ask if we can pray for them.
Prentis
New Member
Read this last night and it made me think of this thread.
[sup]11[/sup] Her heads judge for a bribe,
Her priests teach for pay,
And her prophets divine for money.
Yet they lean on the LORD, and say,
“ Is not the LORD among us?
No harm can come upon us.”
[sup]12[/sup] Therefore because of you
Zion shall be plowed like a field,
Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins,
And the mountain of the temple[sup][b][/sup]
Like the bare hills of the forest.
Freely, we have received, freely we are to give. The church makes itself a harlot when it works according to money.
[sup]11[/sup] Her heads judge for a bribe,
Her priests teach for pay,
And her prophets divine for money.
Yet they lean on the LORD, and say,
“ Is not the LORD among us?
No harm can come upon us.”
[sup]12[/sup] Therefore because of you
Zion shall be plowed like a field,
Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins,
And the mountain of the temple[sup][b][/sup]
Like the bare hills of the forest.
Freely, we have received, freely we are to give. The church makes itself a harlot when it works according to money.
To me that would be self induce confidence....it would not be faith that comes from God.
Faith is something that defies what is natural.....it is actually the violating of physical and natural laws. So with true faith it does not matter what is happening around the individual if he or she has faith that God will provide He will. Jesus said when you pray believe that you will get it and you will.
Faith is the currency of the kingdom of Heaven......it is how things get done. It is what God used to create and it is what Jesus used to walk on water and all the miracles He did.
