The Churches are dying, the saints are rising.

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Jostler

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By the way @David H. , thank you for your service, soldier. :) (you too @Keraz )


Hebrews 4:12 NASB — For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
 

David H.

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Absolutely amazing how quickly Laodicea stands up to mock the words of the Lord.....blows my mind. It's almost like there is a "reverse discernment" in operation....Let the dead bury the dead.

Thanks Jostler, Good to see you here, You Know me from another Forum
DH
 

David H.

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What Churches are dying? Evangelical? Because the Orthodox are not, my Church is not, Lutherans are not, Catholics are not. So what Churches

Churches die when they Lose their Candlestick Out of his place (Rev. 2:5) this is how each church age ends, including this last one. So Yes each of those churches still exist like the orthodox and the catholic But they have lost their light. We are the last church age and that light is beginning to flicker, what rises next is not another cathedral of the church age but a Holy remnant of the saints, which are birthed in the wilderness of the great tribulation.

Those remaining edifices of Christendom will become part of the Harlot Of Revelation 17.
 
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David H.

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..because, when you interpreted 'watchman' in the manner that you did, not to mention your original dream interpretation that started all this, made me detect a misguided disposition in you - at least, according to my perception and for the reasons that I gave. Thus, I felt that I called a spade, a spade. Not to mention, you came out extremely aggressive also, claiming that you knew more about this than I do, as in, that I haven't a clue what I'm talking about. Which, I believe that I proved otherwise and exposed the folly in your exegesis, and in your inability to stay consistent. You said God calls, but may not divulge the truth ie. 'a watchman could be wrong'. Thus, my accusations were warranted.
God sent to Jonah to Ninevah to tell them to repent or be destroyed, They did and God relented, Jonah proceeded to begrudge the mercy of God, this is a hard lesson to learn for the ones who are called by God to warn, only to see their warning not come to pass. So I choose not to begrudge the mercy of God.
The Prophecies in scripture that I am speaking of here are a worst case scenario, Based on observations of the condition of this church age, the harlotry she has fallen into and the seducing spirits, The complacency, etc. Could God relent and send a revival? Yes, But from what I am seeing not anymore. Instead, we are seeing a silent revival of the saints while the rest fall away into apostacy exactly as Scripture has promised.
The real question you need to ask is where am I on that scale? Am i one of the ones who thinks they are rich and in need of nothing thus living in denial of their need for Jesus, Or are you zealously repenting? these things are not being taught in the churches of men, instead they are preaching words of comfort to itching ears.
God Bless.
 
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DNB

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God sent to Jonah to Ninevah to tell them to repent or be destroyed, They did and God relented, Jonah proceeded to begrudge the mercy of God, this is a hard lesson to learn for the ones who are called by God to warn, only to see their warning not come to pass. So I choose not to begrudge the mercy of God.
The Prophecies in scripture that I am speaking of here are a worst case scenario, Based on observations of the condition of this church age, the harlotry she has fallen into and the seducing spirits, The complacency, etc. Could God relent and send a revival? Yes, But from what I am seeing not anymore. Instead, we are seeing a silent revival of the saints while the rest fall away into apostacy exactly as Scripture has promised.
The real question you need to ask is where am I on that scale? Am i one of the ones who thinks they are rich and in need of nothing thus living in denial of their need for Jesus, Or are you zealously repenting? these things are not being taught in the churches of men, instead they are preaching words of comfort to itching ears.
God Bless.
But, I believe that you're wrong about Jonah. His warning did come to pass, it was conditional and the Ninevites chose one of the conditions, and God stayed fidel to His Word. Jonah was upset that God would even suggest showing mercy to such a wicked nation. All of Jonah's words came to pass exactly as he stipulated.
David, all I feel that you did, was conjecture of the times that we are in, and find a correlation in the Bible. In other words, all you did was quote from the Book of Revelation in such a general sense that no one prove you wrong or right. And this is so typically of people who think that they are called by God, they speak in such ambiguities with just enough Scripture to justify their self-professed calling. Again, all you did was regurgitate something that has been stated for centuries - many have made the exact same predictions.
 

historyb

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Churches die when they Lose their Candlestick Out of his place (Rev. 2:5) this is how each church age ends, including this last one. So Yes each of those churches still exist like the orthodox and the catholic But they have lost their light. We are the last church age and that light is beginning to flicker, what rises next is not another cathedral of the church age but a Holy remnant of the saints, which are birthed in the wilderness of the great tribulation.

Those remaining edifices of Christendom will become part of the Harlot Of Revelation 17.

Your opinion, not truth just injudicious hokum. Evangelicals like you always have a high opinion of themselves and thinking they are right and come up with really nutty ideas.
 
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Livingstone

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Absolutely amazing how quickly Laodicea stands up to mock the words of the Lord.....blows my mind. It's almost like there is a "reverse discernment" in operation....Let the dead bury the dead.

Indeed.

The wicked plots against the righteous,
And gnashes at him with his teeth.
The Lord laughs at him,
For He sees that his day is coming.
The wicked have drawn the sword and bent their bow
To take down the afflicted and the needy,
To kill off those who are upright in conduct.
Their sword will enter their own heart,
And their bows will be broken.

(Psalm 37:12-15)
 

Jostler

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Injudicious hokum, nutty. Interesting. You sling insults with no attempt to define, much less correct what you consider "injudicious hokum" spouted by a nut. Do you have anything constructive to add at all?
 

historyb

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Injudicious hokum, nutty. Interesting. You sling insults with no attempt to define, much less correct what you consider "injudicious hokum" spouted by a nut. Do you have anything constructive to add at all?

Sure, you guy have stupid ideas. You all think that you know everything because you can read a Bible, big deal. You all hate certain Churches because you have no roots and act like your some authority knowing if a Church is dying with you all ain't that bright.
 

Keraz

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The compromising church:

Like most churches throughout history, churches today compromise on what is taught to their flocks, preferring teachers who rationalize, allegorize, spiritualize or simply ignore the prophetic scriptures. The church that believes Bible prophecies concerning the last days can only be understood allegorically or that prophecy is anything less than factual, is easy prey for Satan’s craftiness.

Satan, the great counterfeiter, deceives with half truths, often using scripture out of context, as he did with Jesus in the wilderness temptations. The same will be true with churches that say: yes these passages are literal, but they have no application to us, because they are trusting in the false assurance that they will be raptured away before those events occur. Once such people realize their great mistake, it will be too late to avoid the persecution of the Anti Christ. True believers in those churches will not lose their salvation, but they will endure suffering from which faithfulness to God and His Word, would have protected them. Thus genuine believers in the compromising churches may have to go through what Jesus described in His Olivet Discourse as the ‘Great Tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world.’

It is within the context of the Great Tribulation that Jesus warns the [allegorical type] Thyatiran and Laodicean church leaders– Rev 2:20-22 You tolerate Jezebel, whose teaching lures My servants into false beliefs, she refuses to repent, so I will throw her onto a bed of pain and those who commit [spiritual] adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they renounce what she is doing.

So those teachers who have misled Christians by not properly discerning the Word, will be punished and their flock won’t lose their salvation, but may be subject to the Tribulation.

James 3:1 & Romans 5:9, 1 Thessalonians 1:10

On the other hand, believers who are spiritually prepared, faithful peoples, can look forward to the fulfilment of God’s great promises to His Christian people: great promises of protection during the next prophesied event – the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, and then their amazing gathering into the new country of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Jeremiah 30, Ezekiel 36, Zephaniah 3:19-20, Malachi 4:1-6, Hosea 14:4-9 It is those people, the holy ones of God, who will welcome Jesus at His Return with the shout: ‘Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord’.


Genesis 18:17-19 ....I shall not conceal from Abraham what I am about to do, because he must tell his descendants what is just and right.

Just as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is used as an example of the terrible Day of the Lord, that will strike all the earth, so the Lord has warned us to take care to discern His Word, in order that we may tell our children to keep the Way of the Lord and to be aware of His plans for this end time. Jeremiah 23:14

2 Peter 3:7 & 10-12 The world is reserved for a Judgement of fire and the Day of the Lord’ wrath will come unexpectedly. On that Day, the heavens will disappear with a great noise, great flames of fire will bring all the earth into judgement. Since all things will be tested in this manner, think what sort of people you must be, what devout and dedicated lives you should live!

This prophecy does not refer to the New Heavens and New Earth to come after the Millennium and does not match with the descriptions of the glorious Return of Jesus, as many prophecies clearly state that He will not be seen during this forthcoming fire judgement. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:4

Ref: REB, NIV, KJV verses abridged.
 
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David H.

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Your opinion, not truth just injudicious hokum. Evangelicals like you always have a high opinion of themselves and thinking they are right and come up with really nutty ideas.

For the record, I am not an evangelical, I am a Baptist who believes in the Gifts of the Spirit Or more succinctly a fundamentalist charismatic. Some say this is an Oxymoron, I say this is how the apostolic church was. I Believe in the differentiation of the faithful and the saints, something very few Protestants or evangelicals believe. For this belief I am often accused of being a Catholic, But when I say I Do not believe in the veneration and prayers to the saints they quickly know I am not. I am an Arminian regarding salvation, I am Calvinist regarding the saints. I Believe that much of Christianity today is nothing more than Humanism in the guise of Faith. I accept Partial preterism in parts, but not the whole, I am wholly premillennial in my eschatology, Where Preterism goes wrong is when it says that Christ came again in 70 AD and that we are living in the Millennial reign of Christ now. This eschatology along with amillennialism and some of the newer variants of Kingdom now/ Dominionism are by products of Humanism which is embedded in modern churches, Including the Catholic and Orthodox along with the evangelical.

I Believe in Eternal security of the believer, But not as a doctrine that is mentally accepted, But one we must experience after a time in the wilderness of Doubt before we came to the full assurance of faith. Thus the scriptures contain by design words that point to conditional security lest we deceive ourselves by textualism. Textualism is the Biggest flaw of the fundamentalist movement, and leads to the complacent lukewarm Christian. Textualism prevents us from experiencing the Word of God and limits it to a textbook for living. When One Experiences the Word of God, the Word of God comes alive, and it reads you and cuts to the very marrow of who you are and destroys any inkling of Humanism in you Until you can say as with the prophets "Lord, thou Knowest". It is this brokenness that leads us to the point of total surrender and making Him Not just our savior But Our LORD, as He becomes the head, the all in all of that believer, and the same goes for all parts of the Body whether fundamentalist, charismatic, Evangelical, or Orthodox.

You see, it is easy to label a person a Charismatic, or an evangelical, or whatever the label you want to place on them so that you can ignore what they are saying. It is hard to interact with someone who does not fit into your little box of human understanding. This mentality is a defense mechanism to classify people, without dealing with the content of their teachings. I Took the time to explain to you what I see as the churches dying means, Pray to be taught by the Holy Ghost and he too will show you this, But you must be willing to unlearn what you already think you know, To start from square one "to know nothing save Christ and Him Crucified", As Paul puts it. Only then can he begin to reveal the truth to you. Your desire must be for the Truth, and Jesus IS the Truth, The Amen. Each denomination, Each believer, Each church Age Understands in Part, together, they are the whole of Truth, The Body of Christ. It is when all those parts lay aside their pride and start coming together that the whole picture comes into focus.... Labelling people so you can hate on them and negate them is like the Hand saying to the foot I have no need of you, and you end up with a denomination of all hands, and all feet working against one another. This is what it means to come to the fulness of Christ (see Ephesians 4) and the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace. It is not compromise, But the body wholly joined together as One By the Truth of the Word of God, this is the church of the saints, It has no priests, no hierarchy, no traditions, no Nicolaitans ruling over it, Instead Christ is the head, the all in all of the church. This Church is alive Like the individual believer lives and is not an institution perpetuating itself with tradition, But rather Inspired by the Spirit of Christ.

By Design, God gave each of the seven Spirits of God to each of the churches, that in the end they would all join as One, and become perfectly one, But all must go through the process of unlearning and being Spirit taught In order to see the whole Truth. So Is there a place for orthodoxy, Yes, Just as there is part in the Evangelical and charismatic churches, Just as there is truth in the Calvinist and Arminian, But there is also a LOT of Baggage in all of these traditions that is hard to let go of.

But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ..... And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
(Eph. 4:7, 11-13)

Do You see it here? The fivefold gifts of ministry are there for a purpose until that purpose is accomplished then they are no more. The end of the institutional church as we know it is the rising of the saints. Or adding to the quote of Cyprian from your Post "he who has not the Church for his mother, has not God for his Father"..... But the Baby cannot remain in the womb forever.
 

David H.

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I wanted to Post this here as it pertains to the final outpouring of the gift of discerning of Spirits and the final church age. Written in 1955 The Chapter ends with the Query "What next?" This Post is an attempt to answer that question. For encouragement.

Needed: A Baptism of Clear Seeing Chapter 31
When reviewing the religious scene today we are tempted to fix on one or another weakness and say, "This is what is wrong with the Church. If this were corrected we could recapture the glory of the early Church and have Pentecostal times back with us again."

This tendency to oversimplification is itself a weakness and should be guarded against always, especially when dealing with anything as complex as religion as it occurs in modern times. It takes a very young man to reduce all our present woes to a single disease and cure the whole thing with one simple remedy. Older and wiser heads will be more cautious, having learned that the prescribed nostrum seldom works for the reason that the diagnosis has not been correct. Nothing is that simple. Few spiritual diseases occur alone. Almost all are complicated by the presence of others and are so vitally interrelated as they spread over the whole religious body that it would take the wisdom of a Solomon to find a single cure.

For this reason I am hesitant to point to any one defect in present day Christianity and make all our troubles to stem from it alone. That Bible religion in our times is suffering rapid decline is so evident as to need no proof; but just what has brought about this decline is not so easy to discover. I can only say that I have observed one significant lack among evangelical Christians which might turn out to be the real cause of most of our spiritual troubles; and of course if that were true, then the supplying of that lack would be our most critical need.

The great deficiency to which I refer is the lack of spiritual discernment, especially among our leaders. How there can be so much Bible knowledge and so little insight, so little moral penetration, is one of the enigmas of the religious world today. I think it is altogether accurate to say that there has never before been a time in the history of the Church when so many persons were engaged in Bible study as are so engaged today. If the knowledge of Bible doctrine were any guarantee of godliness, this would without doubt be known in history as the age of sanctity. Instead, it may well be known as the age of the Churchs Babylonish captivity, or the age of worldliness, when the professed Bride of Christ allowed herself to be successfully courted by the fallen sons of men in unbelievable numbers. The body of evangelical believers, under evil influences, has during the last twenty-five years gone over to the world in complete and abject surrender, avoiding only a few of the grosser sins such as drunkenness and sexual promiscuity. [Bro. Tozer wrote this in the late 1940's; since then the "grosser sins" are now being exposed among today's leading clergy].

That this disgraceful betrayal has taken place in broad daylight with full consent of our Bible teachers and evangelists is one of the most terrible affairs in the spiritual history of the world. Yet I for one cannot believe that the great surrender was negotiated by men of 62 evil heart who set out deliberately to destroy the faith of our Fathers. Many good and clean living persons have collaborated with the quislings who betrayed us. Why? The answer can only be: from lack of spiritual vision. Something like a mist has settled over the Church as "the face of the covering cast over all people, and the veil that is spread over all nations" (Isa, 25:7). Such a veil once descended upon Israel: "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart" (2 Cor. 3:14, 15). That was Israel's tragic hour. God raised up the Church and temporarily disfranchised His ancient people. He could not trust His work to blind men.

Surely we need a baptism of clear seeing if we would escape the fate of Israel and of every other religious body in history that forsook God. If not the greatest need, then surely one of the greatest is for the appearance of Christian leaders with prophetic vision. We desperately need seers who can see through the mist. Unless they come soon it will be too late for this generation. And if they do come we will no doubt crucify a few of them in the name of our worldly orthodoxy. But the cross is always the harbinger of the resurrection.

Mere evangelism is not our present need. Evangelism does no more than extend religion, of whatever kind it may be. It gains acceptance for religion among larger numbers of people without giving much thought to the quality of that religion. The tragedy is that present day evangelism accepts the degenerate form of Christianity now current as the very religion of the apostles and busies itself with making converts to it with no questions asked. And all the time we are moving farther and farther from the New Testament pattern.

We must have a new reformation. There must come a violent break with that irresponsible, amusement-mad, paganized pseudo religion which passes today for the faith of Christ and which is being spread all over the world by unspiritual men employing Un-scriptural methods to achieve their ends.

When the Roman Church apostatized, God brought about the Reformation. When the Reformation declined, God raised up the Moravians and the Wesleys. When these movements began to die God raised up Fundamentalism and the "deeper life" groups. Now that these have almost without exception sold out to the world...

what next?


The Root of the Righteous, A.W. Tozer, Pp. 107-111.
This was copied from the following PDF https://hsraadio.net/raamat/A.W.+Tozer+-+The+Root+of+the+Righteous.pdf
The parenthesis was added to the text by the PDF, and is not in the original copy.
 
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Timtofly

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I wanted to Post this here as it pertains to the final outpouring of the gift of discerning of Spirits and the final church age.
We have been taught too well to separate the spiritual from the physical. There is no separation naturally that cannot be overcome. Since sin is the dividing factor it is just easier to live in sin and postpone the inevitable spiritual existence that is to us, "a future event".

That is the issue. The church fails to bring the spiritual to earth and incorporate God in our hourly decision making. The church has literally resigned to the fact that sin is in control and there is nothing we can do about it, that is the result of reformed theology. It is sad that the church fell for Satan's deception and let it permeate our society.
 

Jostler

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We have been taught too well to separate the spiritual from the physical.... The church fails to bring the spiritual to earth and incorporate God in our hourly decision making. The church has literally resigned to the fact that sin is in control and there is nothing we can do about it, that is the result of reformed theology. It is sad that the church fell for Satan's deception and let it permeate our society.

This has been impressed on my heart as well. We have been exhorted to pray "Thy Kingdom come..." for 2000+ years now, not realizing He intends that Kingdom to manifest in this earth THROUGH us...His people.

Why does the Word say violence is necessary to TAKE the Kingdom?

Matthew 11:12 NASB — “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.

To become a Christian in the early church was to enter the realms of spirit, by the Spirit. Angelic encounters were so common Paul had to warn people to take care how they treated strangers...any one of them might be an angel....

And our generation has not been called to match the early church's accomplishments....we must exceed them.
 
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Davy

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Several years ago, I had a dream about a great cathedral that sat upon a mountain top. This Cathedral was destroyed in a cataclysmic fire. (This was well before the burning down of Notre Dame in Paris). From out of the ruins of this cathedral I saw a spring of water coming forth as the foundation was split asunder as in Rock that Moses split, and the though the institutional church had lost its presence in the world, the saints were issuing forth from the destruction.

In This day and age, the final church age, the Laodicean church, the last cathedral of the church age is coming to a close, and its destruction is imminent. Today, we are seeing churches all over the world failing and falling down due to shutdowns from Covid 19, and government restrictions, many are dying due to the inability to pay the bills, the hirelings are not being paid and in some cases are leaving for greener pastures. In Others they are rising in millitancy, and placing their faith in Governments and princes instead of trusting in the LORD.

This was all foretold in Revelation, for those who have eyes to see. What is replacing this final church age is not another church age, But a Holy Remnant of saints who belong not to a church, but have made Christ Jesus their all in all, and live in the fulness of Christ. These are the Saints of Revelation. The beast will make war on the saints, and will overcome them, But by their testimony they overcome Satan and he is cast down to earth because of their endurance. An endurance that comes not from weapons and military or governmental might, But by the providence of the LORD who is their all in all.

This is the final conflict and trial those who believe will face. Those who Pass will receive eternal rewards, those who fail, will become part of the Harlot of Revelation 17, The institutional Church is no more, and that time of wilderness testing is coming and from the wilderness we either go into the presence of the King of Kings, or Join the kings of this world, Joining the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit.

Your second paragraph about Dispensationalist's idea of Church Ages betrays the pre-trib rapture theory of man you are probably on. However, you are not correct about today's organizational Church systems of man. Those mainstream systems are still very alive and well, teaching for Christian doctrine instead the doctrines of men. The preaching of The Gospel is common to all of them, as it must be, but they are not all staying with the written Word of God on many other things, especially not for today's times. Much of Christ's Church today is not being prepared for what is coming upon the world.

In the Amos 8:9-13 prophecy for the end, God said He will send a famine in the land, but not a famine of lack of bread or water, but a famine for hearing the Word of The LORD. They shall wander to and fro to seek it but shall not find it. That prophecy is given with signs meant for the end of this world. It is in effect today among many in today's Churches.

What is the duty of organizational Churches today? As it has always been, to preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ for those who have not heard. It also has the duty to 'feed' Christ's sheep, and that means feeding the congregation all of God's Word, line upon line, chapter by chapter. How many Churches can we find today doing that kind of feeding? What do we most often get instead? We get a topical approach to God's Word, pulling out a verse here, and a verse there, and often preaching an idea that has nothing to do with the flow of the chapter where those verses were pulled from! Thus the famine today like God said in Amos 8.

I was asked one time by a fellow-believer what to do about this regarding the Church he was attending. I told him if he didn't understand how this famine is real, then to ask his Sunday School teacher when he was going to cover all of God's Word line upon line, starting in the Book of Genesis. The guy actually asked his teacher that very question. The teacher used the excuse that he must think they had all the time in the world! That's actually an excuse many preachers in the Churches today use because the reality is that God didn't call many of them, so they are not able to cover all of God's written Word line upon line, chapter by chapter. They simply are not that familiar with God's Word, but only in certain parts of it. And the seminaries don't cover it like that either.

Because of this, many turn to online Christian forums like this one. But what do we most often find here also? A repeat of those very doctrines of men taught in place of God's Word which is done by the majority of the system Churches today. And when those who stick strictly to God's written Word that counters men's doctrines, they get ridiculed. All these things are signs for the end to show why our Heavenly Father is sending that famine of Amos 8 upon the rebellious that work against His written Word. It's a Sign for those who love Him and His Son to wise up, and learn to listen to Him in HIS WORD, and not men in theirs.
 
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David H.

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Your second paragraph about Dispensationalist's idea of Church Ages betrays the pre-trib rapture theory of man you are probably on. However, you are not correct about today's organizational Church systems of man. Those mainstream systems are still very alive and well, teaching for Christian doctrine instead the doctrines of men. The preaching of The Gospel is common to all of them, as it must be, but they are not all staying with the written Word of God on many other things, especially not for today's times. Much of Christ's Church today is not being prepared for what is coming upon the world.

It is funny cause you say the Organizational church systems are still preaching Christian doctrine , yet there is still a famine of hearing the Word of God, which Points to the OP and the fact that we are living in a Laodicean age. The Church ages teaching is not part of dispensational thinking. The two "theologians" that presented this, were A.W. Pink, and William Branham, about as diverse a couple as you can get. Pink was reformed in his theology, and Branham was a charismatic and preterist. Pink Wrote his work around the time of WW1 so he had not fully seen the manifestations of the post-modern church, Branham sometime later, And he got caught up in his pride claiming to be someone he was not, the messenger of this church age.

In Dispensationalism in general, there is the view that two churches exist in the end, Philadelphia and Laodicea, and that one gets raptured, and one gets spewed out to face the beast in the Great tribulation becoming the misnamed "tribulation saints". To me, theory is the very essence of the denial of the Laodicean church age. Of course everyone believes they and their church denomination is the Philadelphian church, and we have even had cults form espousing this theory (WWCOG). But what I am saying is that all believers alive today are living in the Laodicean church age, All are in need of the instruction therein. All must come to see their complacency and denial as we are all alive in this day and age. This church age began circa 1900, with the Humanist translations of the Bible, the outpouring of the gift of Tongues to counter the textualism that had overtaken the fundamentalist movement, Post modernism as a reaction to the rigid modernism of the Victorian Era.

The fundamental flaw in this understanding begins with the failure to distinguish between the faithful and the saints. This error began in the transition from the Thyatira to Sardis Age, Or the time of the reformation. In Casting out and reforming much of Catholic tradition (which in itself was largely a good thing for the catholics had fallen into idolatry (Jezebel spirit/ Marianism)) They also threw out the distinction between the faithful and the saints calling all believers saints. With this arose Calvinism which brought evangelism to an end and the dying church. This dying church was raised up by the missionary movements of the 18th and 19th centuries with the Moravians, and the Wesleys as A.W. Tozer spoke of in the chapter I Posted here. This was the Philadelphian age and was primarily a fundamentalist movement, a living and transforming movement that eventually fell into the "cult of Textualism" as we see its many currently practicing followers on forums such as this attacking those who believe in the gifts of the spirit. Here is a short article on this that you should read from Tozer.
No Revival without Reformation - A.W. Tozer - Sermon Index

In other words, the church that was given the Key, shut the Lord Jesus out of the church where we find Him Today in this final church age. In falling into textualism the Word of God died in the hand of its friends, as Tozer stated. A few who had been excluded from this seeking Holiness and a deeper life in the Spirit, began the final church age, Notice that the Pentecostal movement was born out of the desire for Holiness.... which is saintliness. But what still remains is that there is a lack of the Unity of the Spirit in the understandings of all of these churches which is indicative of the fulness of Christ. each church age has a flaw(s) and each church age has commendation, each has a a part of the fulness of Christ till each comes together as one. So for example, I believe salvation is of the free will (Arminain), But sainthood is by the divine choice of God (predestination) when doctrine rightly understood it will bring together this great divide in the church. I Believe that Conditional security applies until we as believers come to the point of full surrender and making Jesus our LORD, and we experience the full assurance of the faith, (eternal security). Eternal security cannot come until this point of full regeneration, and Lordship salvation, and must be experienced and not taught as a doctrine of textualism. These are two of the "great divides" in the church, which can be resolved quite easily in bringing the unity of the Spirit, Both stem from the separation of the faithful and the saints, and point to the fact the church and the fivefold ministry of the church is for the purpose of perfecting the saints and once accomplished these offices cease and the saints are born. The tribulation saints are not the rejects of the church ages, but the cream of the crop. The church will eventually become no more, but the saints will rise. This was foretold in scripture for those with eyes to see. When One does see this then revelation will fall into focus, and the who what when where and why of it will be understood.

I Hope this helps you to see this? We are in the time of the birth pangs. Who is born? The saints. The Great tribulation is our opportunity to giveour testimony and thereby fulfill Rev. 12:11.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3)
 

Davy

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It is funny cause you say the Organizational church systems are still preaching Christian doctrine , yet there is still a famine of hearing the Word of God, which Points to the OP and the fact that we are living in a Laodicean age. The Church ages teaching is not part of dispensational thinking. The two "theologians" that presented this, were A.W. Pink, and William Branham, about as diverse a couple as you can get. Pink was reformed in his theology, and Branham was a charismatic and preterist. Pink Wrote his work around the time of WW1 so he had not fully seen the manifestations of the post-modern church, Branham sometime later, And he got caught up in his pride claiming to be someone he was not, the messenger of this church age.

Both focused on the Dispensationalism of John Nelson Darby, which is where the Church Ages idea you espouse originates. The reason why that Church ages theory is false is because it removes the purpose of Christ's seven Messages to the seven Churches in Asia, and applies each one instead to a specific era of Christian history. Further, those seven Messages Jesus gave are actually for ALL Christian Churches today, as their subject contains His second coming and not being deceived at the end. So teaching each one is for a certain era of history destroys the main purpose Lord Jesus gave them for (so as to recognize what kind of Church one is in, even all the way to the end of this world).


In Dispensationalism in general, there is the view that two churches exist in the end, Philadelphia and Laodicea, and that one gets raptured, and one gets spewed out to face the beast in the Great tribulation becoming the misnamed "tribulation saints". To me, theory is the very essence of the denial of the Laodicean church age. Of course everyone believes they and their church denomination is the Philadelphian church, and we have even had cults form espousing this theory (WWCOG). But what I am saying is that all believers alive today are living in the Laodicean church age, All are in need of the instruction therein. All must come to see their complacency and denial as we are all alive in this day and age. This church age began circa 1900, with the Humanist translations of the Bible, the outpouring of the gift of Tongues to counter the textualism that had overtaken the fundamentalist movement, Post modernism as a reaction to the rigid modernism of the Victorian Era.

That idea that all believers are living in a "Laodicean church age" is still from Darby's theory of Dispensationalism about Church ages. That whole premise is defunct, and was designed to help support Darby's false pre-trib rapture theory. So you may not adhere to a pre-trib rapture, or you well might, since you have adopted that Church ages theory from Darby's dispensationalism.

The reality though actually is that ALL seven of Christ's Messages are still 'active' for today, for ALL Churches. The seven messages are connected to the seven candlesticks in Heaven which represent the seven Churches (per end of Rev.1). Those very same dangers in five of those seven Churches are till present today, and will remain all the way up to Christ's second coming. Only the two Churches of Philadelphia and Smyrna Lord Jesus had no problem with, so those represent His very elect that will not be deceived. This is also why He mentioned about the "synagogue of Satan" to those two. Thus the Messages were historical at first, but now serve as ensamples for ALL Churches. Man's Church ages theory destroys that purpose and is a false doctrine.

The fundamental flaw in this understanding begins with the failure to distinguish between the faithful and the saints. This error began in the transition from the Thyatira to Sardis Age, Or the time of the reformation. In Casting out and reforming much of Catholic tradition (which in itself was largely a good thing for the catholics had fallen into idolatry (Jezebel spirit/ Marianism)) They also threw out the distinction between the faithful and the saints calling all believers saints. With this arose Calvinism which brought evangelism to an end and the dying church. This dying church was raised up by the missionary movements of the 18th and 19th centuries with the Moravians, and the Wesleys as A.W. Tozer spoke of in the chapter I Posted here. This was the Philadelphian age and was primarily a fundamentalist movement, a living and transforming movement that eventually fell into the "cult of Textualism" as we see its many currently practicing followers on forums such as this attacking those who believe in the gifts of the spirit. Here is a short article on this that you should read from Tozer.

That's just a bunch men's theories not related to God's prophecies given for the end in His Word. The Jezebel spirit is alive and well in some so-called Christian Churches today! Same with the other four Churches Jesus rebuked. You're just quoting ideas you learned out of some book by man, and not from God's Word.