Romans 6:22

[Michiah-Imla]

God does not see His "sons" as sinners

If they sin he sure does!!

That’s a lie you believed!

“All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.” (Amos 9:10)

“Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray…” (2 Peter 2:14-15)

So:

“…continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23)

So @Behold

“Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.” (Jeremiah 13:15)

 

[Johann]

but He became sin, (body and blood sacrifice), as that was

Our Lord became sin....body and blood sacrifice

Explain this for me @Behold, especially the "body and blood" sacrifice.

Without putting words in your mouth, did sin "interpenetrated" Christ in His soma/body? Yes or no?

 

[Gospel Believer]

Unless, of course, you wilfully commit sin again.

Put on your “ thinking cap” if you have one.....99% Of your Sins are “ Willful “..... unless, of course, all of “ your” sins are done by Accident....lol.....yeah, right.....

 

[Behold]

If they sin he sure does!!

Is there a reason you live in the Old Testament?
There is no CROSS found there, and that would explain why there is No CROSS found in your theology that you rant.


Listen,
God, the Father of the Born again..... does not see the sin of the Born again.
Why?
Because they are taken care of by the Cross of Christ., 2000 yrs ago.
This is why a Son of God, or Daughter of God, born again, is known as a SAINT, and an "heir of God".

God sees us as we are become, spiritually.

"one with God".
"in Christ".


If you learn this, (if you are born again).......then when you do get this revelation, you'll be found giving praise to Jesus, instead of always talking about sin, constantly.

 

[Gospel Believer]

Unless, of course, you wilfully commit sin again.

Put on your “ thinking cap” if you have one.....99% Of your Sins are “ Willful “..... unless, of course, all of “ your” sins are done by Accident....lol.....yeah, right.....

Not at all.

But what do you live in?

“…they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul!” (Isaiah 3:9)

Stop declaring your sin and get holy!!

Your personal “ holiness” is a big a JOKE as you personal “ righteousness” ......you possess Neither.
The only Holiness or Righteousness that ANY person has are those that are IMPUTED to them by their Faith in Christ Jesus...It’s Called “ Christianity 101”...... you force me to ask—- just what the hell is the matter with you?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Put on your “ thinking cap”

There’s your problem.

“…lean not unto thine own understanding.” (Proverbs 3:5)

Take your thinking cap off and open your mouth and feed on the word of God!

“I am the LORD thy God… open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.” (Psalms 81:10)

“…thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.” (Ezekiel 2:8)

“…It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Your personal “ holiness” is a big a JOKE

It’s no joke:

“…he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” (Revelation 22:11)

But you can continue in your pride if you wish:

“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still…” (Revelation 22:11)

 

[Behold]

Our Lord became sin....body and blood sacrifice

Explain this for me @Behold, especially the "body and blood" sacrifice.

Without putting words in your mouth, did sin "interpenetrated" Christ in His soma/body? Yes or no?

Sin is an act of sinning.
That is in your mind...first, as a choice.
There is your SIN.

THEN, you take your body and do it.

This is why Christ said that if you Lust in your MIND regarding sexual acts with a woman, man, ect, you have sinned already.

See that?

Sin is not a body situation...>It a choice in the head that is decided to DO.


Jesus never sinned. He never ever sinned.
So, this sinless Jesus, is THE sinless Sacrifice for YOUR sin.
If you have it, then you are forgiven all your sin, because Jesus has become your sin, having never committed any Himself.
He because YOURS, Johann.,and died for them, sacrificing His body and blood, as "without the shedding of BLOOD< there is no REMISSION...there is no covering, there is no redemption or pardon, for them"..

The CROSS is where Jesus provided His body and blood as your SIN Bearer.

There is your SALVATION.
There is our Forgiveness.
There is our only WAY back to God. John 14:6

 

[Gospel Believer]

He does not see the sin of the Born again.
Why?
Because they are taken care of by the Cross.
This is why a Son of God, or Daughter of God, born again, is known as a SAINT, and an "heir of God".

God sees us as we are become, spiritually.

"one with God".
"in Christ".


If you learn this, (if you are born again).......then when you do get this revelation, you'll be found giving praise to Jesus, instead of always talking about sin, constantly.

Grace Rejectors always tend to be more * SIN* conscience than they are “SON” conscience
The Grace Rejectors Reject it because they have never received it....that’s a scary thought , because if one lacks the Grace that God freely bestows on those that simply believe the Gospel, they are damned...

 

[Behold]

It’s no joke:

“…he that is righteous,

He that is righteous is born again.
He that isn't, is religious and lost.

Jesus said...>"you must be born again".

And if you are, then God's Righteousness has become you as "the new creation".

If you are not truly born again, then you are trying to be good, and that wont work because "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".

Listen, its not the do-gooders and the water baptized who go to Heaven.
Its these..

Jesus said...."you MUST be BORN AGAIN".

If you are, then Jesus has died for your sin, and if you are not then you have them and you'll die in them, Jesus said, until you are born again.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

the Grace that God freely bestows on those that simply believe the Gospel

Yes, but they are advised to:

“…continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23)

Because:

“…it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)

So don’t put your grace giver to open shame!

 

[Johann]

@Johann

Quoting commentaries as if they were an authority over the Bible…

That’s the state affairs these days…

As you may have noticed, secondary resources are extremely helpful in a friendly discussion between me and @Behold, dialogue is Imperative to help clear up "Jesus BECAME hamartia/sin, if you don't know Hebrew...brother, all you are doing is quoting verses randomly, not considering the context.

Here is something for you to consider...I don't read commentaries or secondary sources to "clear up" scriptures for me, I read commentaries for confirmation what I already know, and can see where secondary sources are bias.

Have you ever watched debates on any topic and see how the players are using extra biblical resources? This is extremely helpful, not to win, but to help clarify things on both sides.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus said...."you MUST be BORN AGAIN".

And he also said:

“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

“And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:30)

 

[Behold]

Grace Rejectors always tend to be more * SIN* conscience than they are “SON” conscience
The Grace Rejectors Reject it because they have never received it....that’s a scary thought , because if one lacks the Grace that God freely bestows on those that simply believe the Gospel, they are damned...

Yes.

Grace rejectors talk about self effort and sin and only use the bible to try to find some verse that they believe teaches that they can go to hell unless they dont do whatever it is...
They are always trying to save themselves.
Always.

The born again, who understand Salvation, talk about Grace and The Cross, and are amazed by this Blood of Jesus and the Cross of Christ and the Love of God.

They write songs like this....

-
1 What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain:
O precious is the flow
that makes me white as snow;
no other fount I know;
nothing but the blood of Jesus.

2 For my pardon this I see:
nothing but the blood of Jesus.
For my cleansing this my plea:
nothing but the blood of Jesus.

3 Nothing can for sin atone:
nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Naught of good that I have done:
nothing but the blood of Jesus.

4 This is all my hope and peace:
nothing but the blood of Jesus.
This is all my = RIGHTEOUSNESS
nothing but the blood of Jesus

 

[Behold]

And he also said:

“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

“And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:30

As i told you yesterday.
Let me try it again.

Your verse is not talking to a born again Christian., as Jesus has not gone to the Cross yet, in John 5.

You are not able to understand this?
Too complicated for your thinking process?
Is that the problem, Michiah-Imla?
Seems so.


listen....

JESUS.....having DIED for the born again, would not be talking to them about their sin, as He has already died for their sin.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Grace rejectors talk about self effort

I’ve been talking about the Holy Bible without ceasing…

try to find some verse that they believe teaches that they can go to hell

The verses speak for themselves.

But you pervert them to teach other than what is plainly written…

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Your verse is not talking to a born again Christian.,

And of course you’re the authority on what applies to you in the Bible.

A god unto yourself.

 

[Gospel Believer]

NO!

Your are not going to get out of this one!

Since the Apostle Paul (a Christian) wrote the epistle now called “To The Hebrews”, he warned CHRISTIANS about the dangers of sinning wilfully!

“For if **WE** sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

He never “ gets it”—— he never will...one can take verses out of context and make the Bible “ appear” to say anything....there just happens to be NINE chapters BEFORE chapter 10 on the Book Of Hebrews , and the only “ Willful Sin” being discussed in ANY of them is dismissing the Blood Of Jesus and “ counting it as worthless” by going back to Temple Worship and putting their Faith in the Blood Of animals as they had done for thousands of years....this side of the Cross and the Shed Blood Of Jesus,, That just ain’t gonna get the job if Sin Forgiveness Done....There * IS NOW* , “ No more ( or other) Sacrifice for Sin” .......A Ten year old can figure this out! It is only blind men that cannot....

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He never “ gets it”—— he never will...one can take verses out of context and make the Bible “ appear” to say anything....there just happens to be NINE chapters BEFORE chapter 10 on the Book Of Hebrews , and the only “ Willful Sin” being discussed in ANY of them is dismissing the Blood Of Jesus and “ counting it as worthless” by going back to Temple Worship and putting their Faith in the Blood Of animals as they had done for thousands of years....this side of the Cross and the Shed Blood Of Jesus,, That just ain’t gonna get the job if Sin Forgiveness Done....There * IS NOW* , “ No more ( or other) Sacrifice for Sin” .......A Ten year old can figure this out! It is only blind men that cannot....

Blah blah blah….

No scriptures of course.

Just the cries of a sectarian.

 

[Behold]

“…it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Michiah-Imla,

Notice that your obvious obsession with that one set of verses in Hebrews is controlling you?
That happens to a lot of religious people.......you are not the first.

Notice carefully, that your verse says...>"to renew them to repentance".

That would be the word of God preached, and the Holy Spirit, conviction power.

See that? That is "you are not saved yet, so repent of your unbelief and receive Jesus".

Now here is the thing...
If you are born again, unlike those Hebrews.....> you dont have to be brought back to repentance so that you believe to be saved, as you are already Born again.

See that?

Those people in the verse, those Christ Rejecting JEWS, never repented of their unbelief, and God is dealing with them about it, HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTION, and they are RESISTING....and Paul says......God wont keep doing this, you better HEAR ME and BELIEVE, as if you dont, you are going to cross a line where you can't be brought back to this place where the conviction of the Holy Spirit, is able to lead you to Faith in your Messiah.

This happens today, in churches, world wide.

You have someone like me, or a pastor, who is giving an alter call, and the Holy Spirit is "drawing all people if i be lifted up"....Jesus said, and you have those that for years kept resisting that call to Salvation, and then one day, they can't hear it anymore.
The Holy Spirit can't reach them anymore as they are HARDENED against "repentance" and can't ever be saved.
There are a lot of these people in Church every Sunday, or whenever it has the doors open.