Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.” (Isaiah 13:11)
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.” (Amos 9:10)
That is how God dealt with the sinners one time.
Still believe that we keep sinning uncontrollably?
We cannot stop sinning?
And God punishes people incapable of sinlessness?
Examine the kind of God your doctrine creates.
Examine it carefully!
That is how God dealt with the sinners one time.
Still believe that we keep sinning uncontrollably?
We cannot stop sinning?
And God punishes people incapable of sinlessness?
Examine the kind of God your doctrine creates.
Examine it carefully!
Johann
Well-Known Member
Brother, I know it's hard getting older, with that comes the pain and aches, but to grow old a cynic is what I pray I don't want to be.
You are not going to make friends with that attitude brother. Don't shun others.
Why in the world would you not read biblical resources outside the Bible?
You are doing yourself a disservice!
Don't you have discernment?
Enjoy your day.
J.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
If remaining faithful to the word causes me to lose friends, so be it!
“…There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.” (Mark 10:29-30)
Johann
Well-Known Member
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. A little leaven - the false teaching of the Judaizers. A little legalism, mixed with the Gospel, corrupts its purity.
To add ordinances and works in the least degree to justification by faith, is to undermine 'the whole.'
So "leaven," false doctrines (Mat_16:12; cf. Mat_13:33). In 1Co_5:6 it means the corrupting influence of one bad person; so Bengel refers it here to the person (Gal_5:7-8; Gal_5:10) who misled them (Ecc_9:18; 1Co_15:33). False doctrine answers better to "persuasion" (Gal_5:8).
JFB
Don't you have discernment and in need of growth?
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
So every teaching not involving “judaizers” is not leaven???
See what these commentaries do to you?
So the teachings of heretical sects are something else? We cannot call them leaven?
Johann
Well-Known Member
Wrong!
For he hath made him to be sin for us - The Greek here is, ‘for him who knew no sin, he hath made sin, or a sin-offering for us.’ The design of this very important verse is, to urge the strongest possible reason for being reconciled to God. This is implied in the word (γὰρ gar) “for.” Paul might have urged other arguments, and presented other strong considerations. But he chooses to present this fact, that Christ has been made sin for us, as embodying and concentrating all.
It is the most affecting of all arguments; it is the one that is likely to prove most effectual. It is not indeed improper to urge on people every other consideration to induce them to be reconciled to God. It is not improper to appeal to them by the conviction of duty; to appeal to their reason and conscience; to remind them of the claims, the power, the goodness, and the fear of the Creator; to remind them of the awful consequences of a continued hostility to God; to persuade them by the hope of heaven, and by the fear of hell 2Co_5:1 l to become his friends: but, after all, the strongest argument, and that which is most adapted to melt the soul, is the fact that the Son of God has become incarnate for our sins, and has suffered and died in our stead. When all other appeals fail this is effectual; and this is in fact the strong argument by which the mass of those who become Christians are induced to abandon their opposition and to become reconciled to God.
To be sin - The words ‘to be’ are not in the original. Literally, it is, ‘he has made him sin, or a sin-offering’ ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν hamartian epoiēsen . But what is meant by this? What is the exact idea which the apostle intended to convey? I answer, it cannot be:
(1) That he was literally sin in the abstract, or sin as such. No one can pretend this. The expression must be, therefore, in some sense, figurative. Nor,
(2) Can it mean that he was a sinner, for it is said in immediate connection that he “knew no sin,” and it is everywhere said that he was holy, harmless, undefiled. Nor,
(3) Can it mean that he was, in any proper sense of the word, guilty, for no one is truly guilty who is not personally a transgressor of the Law; and if he was, in any proper sense, guilty, then he deserved to die, and his death could have no more merit than that of any other guilty being; and if he was properly guilty it would make no difference in this respect whether it was by his own fault or by imputation: a guilty being deserves to be punished; and where there is desert of punishment there can be no merit in sufferings.
But all such views as go to make the Holy Redeemer a sinner, or guilty, or deserving of the sufferings which he endured, border on blasphemy, and are abhorrent to the whole strain of the Scriptures. In no form, in no sense possible, is it to be maintained that the Lord Jesus was sinful or guilty.
It is a corner stone of the whole system of religion, that in all conceivable senses of the expression he was holy, and pure, and the object of the divine approbation. And every view which fairly leads to the statement that he was in any sense guilty, or which implies that he deserved to die, is “prima facie” a false view, and should be at once abandoned. But,
(4) If the declaration that he was made “sin” (ἁμαρτίαν hamartian) does not mean that he was sin itself, or a sinner, or guilty, then it must mean that he was a sin-offering - an offering or a sacrifice for sin; and this is the interpretation which is now generally adopted by expositors; or it must be taken as an abstract for the concrete, and mean that God treated him as if he were a sinner.
The former interpretation, that it means that God made him a sin-offering, is adopted by Whitby, Doddridge, Macknight, Rosenmuller, and others; the latter, that it means that God treated him as a sinner, is adopted by Vorstius, Schoettgen, Robinson (Lexicon), Dr. Bull, and others. There are many passages in the Old Testament where the word “sin” (ἁμαρτία hamartia) is used in the sense of sin-offering, or a sacrifice for sin. Thus, Hos_4:8, “They eat up the sin of my people;” that is, the sin-offerings; see Eze_43:22, Eze_43:25; Eze_44:29; Eze_45:22-23, Eze_45:25.
He made to be sin (hamartian epoiēsen). The words “to be” are not in the Greek. “Sin” here is the substantive, not the verb. God “treated as sin” the one “who knew no sin.”
But he knew the contradiction of sinners (Heb_12:3). We may not dare to probe too far into the mystery of Christ’s suffering on the Cross, but this fact throws some light on the tragic cry of Jesus just before he died: “My God, My God, why didst thou forsake me?” (Mat_27:46).
That we might become (hina hēmeis genōmetha). Note “become.” This is God’s purpose (hina) in what he did and in what Christ did. Thus alone can we obtain God’s righteousness (Rom_1:17).
Robertson
Johann
Well-Known Member
For he hath made him to be sin for us - Τον μη γνοντα ἁμαρτιαν, ὑπερ ἡμων ἁμαρτιαν εποιησεν· He made him who knew no sin, (who was innocent), a sin-offering for us.
The word ἁμαρτια occurs here twice: in the first place it means sin, i.e. transgression and guilt; and of Christ it is said, He knew no sin, i.e. was innocent; for not to know sin is the same as to be conscious of innocence; so, nil conscire sibi, to be conscious of nothing against one’s self, is the same as nulla pallescere culpa, to be unimpeachable.
In the second place, it signifies a sin-offering, or sacrifice for sin, and answers to the חטאה chattaah and חטאת chattath of the Hebrew text; which signifies both sin and sin-offering in a great variety of places in the Pentateuch.
The Septuagint translate the Hebrew word by ἁμαρτια in ninety-four places in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, where a sin-offering is meant; and where our version translates the word not sin, but an offering for sin.
Had our translators attended to their own method of translating the word in other places where it means the same as here, they would not have given this false view of a passage which has been made the foundation of a most blasphemous doctrine; viz. that our sins were imputed to Christ, and that he was a proper object of the indignation of Divine justice, because he was blackened with imputed sin; and some have proceeded so far in this blasphemous career as to say, that Christ may be considered as the greatest of sinners, because all the sins of mankind, or of the elect, as they say, were imputed to him, and reckoned as his own.
One of these writers translates the passage thus: Deus Christum pro maximo peccatore habuit, ut nos essemus maxime justi, God accounted Christ the greatest of sinners, that we might be supremely righteous.
Wrong, wrong, wrong!!
Thus they have confounded sin with the punishment due to sin.
Christ suffered in our stead; died for us; bore our sins, (the punishment due to them), in his own body upon the tree, for the Lord laid upon him the iniquities of us all; that is, the punishment due to them; explained by making his soul - his life, an offering for sin; and healing us by his stripes.
Clarke.
Would you reconsider your flat out statement the Christ "became" sin in a LITERAL sense?!
Was Jesus nailed to the Cross, literally?
There is your answer, found.
The sin of the world.
He took All of it upon Himself and DIED for them all.
"God made Him to be SIN"...
This is ......Christ saying......"If it is possible let this CUP pass from me".
That CUP is the Cross and on the Cross Jesus took the sin of the world upon Himself.
This is why 2 Corinthians says...
""""God was reconciling the WORLD to Himself >in Christ<, not counting people’s sins against them...."""
Including yours and mine.
If not, you'd still have them, and you'd be damned exactly as these.. John 3:36
Sin is the curse, and Christ is the cure.
So, the Cross is the Blood Atonement.
The Blood Atonement, is the New Testament and the New Covenant, written in the Eternal Blood of Jesus.
Christ on the Cross is Jesus paying for the SIN of the WORLD, as you just read, and then, when you read Paul's verse.....Romans 4:8, that God does not charge sin to the born again............that is because Christ has been Judged for them, already.
God can't Judge Jesus for your sin, then also judge you.
WELCOME TO SALVATION.
Believe it.
And once you get that in your FAITH, you'll realize that this is such an overpayment, when its applied to each of us.
= Jesus because our sin, and we , the born again, are become, "one with God"... "a new Creation", born again having received "the righteousness of God in Christ".
There is the Spiritual Identity that IS a "Son/Daughter" of God, and God does not recognize anything else.
He only sees that, and when we come into that same perspective, we then have the "mind of Christ"., the renewed mind.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Unless you read and speak Koine Greek fluently, my advice to you, is to not try to correct the bible with Greek.
And if you do, its the same advice.
And cutting and pasting some Greek or Hebrew, is useless.
That's always a bad idea, as there is no Greek Scholar, who is the final authority.
There are 30 extant greek NT, and so, just get away from that rabbit trail and trust the bible.
Do not follow those "bible correcting" types, ... instead believe the word of God.
You have a bible, and that is your final authority and not some cut and paste Greek "scholarship" nonsense.
Jesus became your sin on the Cross, or you are still in it.
Thats a fact.
Sin is what keeps you from God, and God had to deal with it ALL, for all eternity.
Welcome to the Cross of Christ, where He dealt with it all for you.
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Your obsession with sin is always up and running, here on the Forum.
Maybe one day you can go to that Cross and find some peace regarding that issue.
Ive no doubt that once you do, if you do, you will then be found here talking about that wonderful Grace of God and that amazing Salvation, who is Jesus the Lord.
Till that day arrives, i am certain you will still keep harping on your one string, ranting about "SIN", as that is in you head and that is why it is always in yours posts.
Christ paid for sin, all of it, the "world's"< with His body and Blood.
That is how He "became" our sin........as "God made Him to be sin"...
That is the "CUP", Christ refers to...
He was to become God's "blood atonement", as that was His "Father's will", and Jesus accepted it.
This is Christ laying down His LIFE for the sin of the world, which is all of us.
That is not the same as Christ sinning.
Christ died sinless, no sin found IN HIM........ but He became sin, (body and blood sacrifice), as that was The Judgment against our sin, that was "poured out" on Him.
That is the CROSS.
That is the Guiltless being sacrificed for the GUILTY.
See it?
That is our REDEMPTION.
That is your Salvation.....= "The GIFT of Salvation".
So, you have to understand that, and once you do, you'll begin to understand the Blood Atonement.
No sin was found In Christ, but your sin put Him to death......and that is how He was "made sin" for you.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
The New Testament alone speaks of sin at least 275 times.
I guess you don’t read the Bible anymore…
I guess you dont think before you post...
Listen, the world "harlot" is in the bible, so is that you?
Must be , according to your odd logic.
God does not see His born again "sons" as sinners.
You do,,, so, you have a problem with God.
Figure that out, Michiah-imla, and get it solved.
Listen..., Christ is the WAY to God. John 14:6
This WAY, is the Cross.
There is your Salvation, as Christ on that Cross is dying for your sin, and did.
So, there goes your sin, if you are born again.
