Romans 8

[marks]

Note all: @marks has refused to answer this and is instead stuck on calling others "pejorative:"

What did you want for me to respond to here?

And I'm not calling others pejorative, I'm saying, perjorative. OK, not funny, I know. I try.

But seriously, I'm not calling others pejorative, I'm pointing to statements made that I consider pejorative. There is a difference.

And I know, why bother, people how are rude will continue to be rude unless they decide to be different. Sometimes just seeing all the personally derogatory comments, well, sometimes I just like to point it out in the hopes that when people go back and re-read what they wrote they might think twice about that, and instead focus on contributing to the discussion with assertions and arguments, rather than just poking at people.

Any, what are you saying I've refused? I don't recall refusing to answer anything . . .

Much love!
mark

 

[Preacher4Truth]

That was until the cross.

That's foolishness. You don't understand context. You don't employ 2 Timothy 2:15.

"If I be lifted up", Jesus said, "I will draw all unto myself". No more just those whom the Father drew to Him, but now all men.

Yes, he did say that. The context shows why. It doesn't mean all men of all times.

But, this is a waste of time, you haven't believed the Gospel as of yet. You believe your gospel, what you did (or think you did) not what God decreed and accomplished.

Now, will you tell us all more about what you've done, and the wonderful acts you did to gain God's approval to choose you into heaven, in your humility of course?

So far you've painted a wonderful picture of yourself, and that you gained God's approval to choose you! I know, it's totally contrary to 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, but you don't care about any of that!

It is always wondrous to hear what folks like you have done, not needing unmerited favor (grace) but meriting it by what you've done. Do tell us more of you.

 

[CoreIssue]

 

[marks]

We are told that none seek God, and that all hate Him naturally. No man chooses God when he hates Him. So yes, if a person chooses to follow Christ, it is because the Spirit has changed man's natural inclination to hate Him.

And you had put this from Romans 8. It's not there.

That which is born of flesh [making a correct choice] is flesh. The flesh cannot please God.

They were not born of flesh ["Free will] but of God. They chose Him because He first chose them.

So, you are saying that a man with this mindset against God seems capable of choosing to follow Him? This is the mindset of those who follow Christ? I think not..

Regardless of race, this message goes out to the unregenerate sinner, for Jesus said himself their father was not God. This verse is not about a specific race, but rather about unregenerate sinners regardless of race.

A dead man can choose nothing. He is dead. That is the point of calling him dead. He cannot choose or respond to anything until He is given new life. New Birth comes with regeneration, as does saving faith.

While all of these restate your assertions, none of these validate them.

For one thing, I need to see the Scriptures, and we can discuss what they mean.

Post the verse you believe states what you assert, let's look and see if it does.

You have read the verses, and failed to see that the point is to show how far sinful man is fallen.

You're read the verses, and failed to see how God truly offers salvation to every man, and does not lie by omission, that such salvation is impossible to some.

Does the man described, left in his natural state, sound like the kind of person that would in and of himself choose God? When He hates Him, and is of His father the Devil, and is enslaved to sin, and every thought of his mind is only evil continually? This is the man that chooses Christ? I think not. Unless there is an act of the Spirit, this man will never choose God.

Yes, Christian's walk after the Spirit, because the Spirit has effected them. Unregenerate sinners do not. They are the ones described in the aforementioned verses. They are the haters of God, and they will never choose Him when left to themselves.

Again, let's post the verses, and look at them to see whether they say these things or not.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What did you want for me to respond to here?

And I'm not calling others pejorative, I'm saying, perjorative. OK, not funny, I know. I try.

But seriously, I'm not calling others pejorative, I'm pointing to statements made that I consider pejorative. There is a difference.

And I know, why bother, people how are rude will continue to be rude unless they decide to be different. Sometimes just seeing all the personally derogatory comments, well, sometimes I just like to point it out in the hopes that when people go back and re-read what they wrote they might think twice about that, and instead focus on contributing to the discussion with assertions and arguments, rather than just poking at people.

Any, what are you saying I've refused? I don't recall refusing to answer anything . . .

Much love!
mark

Tell us more about yourself Mark. You're one of many who say they gained God's favor, rejecting the testimony of Scripture. Many would love to hear about how you did it.

 

[marks]

Learn to spell pejorative champ!

You're stuck on being pejorative. Do you know what it means? It actually shows your behavior, not mine or others you're using it on.

Got that already. P-e-j-o-r-a-t-i-v-e.

Yes I know what it means. That's why I used it.

Perhaps you might quote my pejorative comments, since you say that's what I'm doing. Back that up please.

Meanwhile I've already done that. Quoted them, that is.

Much love,
Mark

 

[marks]

The above is incoherent drivel. Other than that, in your nonsensical scenario, you're almost Calvinist, but with a twisted Universalism.

Why am I bothering?

 

[marks]

Tell us more about yourself Mark. You're one of many who say they gained God's favor, rejecting the testimony of Scripture. Many would love to hear about how you did it.

Round and round we go.

You wrote that I had refused to respond to something. what was that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

What did you want for me to respond to here?

And I'm not calling others pejorative, I'm saying, perjorative. OK, not funny, I know. I try.

Curious, @Preacher4Truth, what do you mean by the formatting? This isn't how I wrote this. What is the point to adding the bold formats?

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's foolishness. You don't understand context. You don't employ 2 Timothy 2:15.

Yes, he did say that. The context shows why. It doesn't mean all men of all times.

But, this is a waste of time, you haven't believed the Gospel as of yet. You believe your gospel, what you did (or think you did) not what God decreed and accomplished.

Now, will you tell us all more about what you've done, and the wonderful acts you did to gain God's approval to choose you into heaven, in your humility of course?

So far you've painted a wonderful picture of yourself, and that you gained God's approval to choose you! I know, it's totally contrary to 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, but you don't care about any of that!

It is always wondrous to hear what folks like you have done, not needing unmerited favor (grace) but meriting it by what you've done. Do tell us more of you.

Is it really so wondrous? Or are you being disingenuous? (Yes, I know what that means also.)

This post is a perfect example of misdirection. Let's stop discussing the issue, and discuss "What is wrong with MarkS". Seems a lot of people like to jump on that bandwagon. But it's a lot easier than refuting the arguments.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Jesus invites all to come, whosoever believes, He wants all to be saved, more besides. If you claim these aren't true, then you make out God to be a liar.

In love,
Mark

 

[Preacher4Truth]

One glaring thing that @marks misses in the text given him (1 Corinthians 1:26-31) probably due to his talking much about how he earned favor (conditional election based on his performance) is that the text plainly refutes his idea that God draws all men (every single person ever.)

It states specifically, "not many (wise, mighty, noble) are called (invited)." This shows some are simply not called.

Yes, you think that's unfair -- God has to do what you think is fair, or, he can't be God. This makes you your own God.

Nonetheless, this is the same calling that God implements to call his elect in Romans 8:29-30. He predestined them, then called them, and accomplishes all the other facets of salvation in them unto glorification. This is clearly seen in the passage. The elect are predestined to salvation.

All who are called are subsequently saved; John 6:37; John 6:40. These texts prove all who are drawn are called, saved and raised. This excludes then that all men of all time are drawn or we'd have Universalism.

This then shows clearly not all are called by God through the Gospel.

You really need to try some humility, marks, your pride has said to you that God chose you because you did something, yet blindly you say that we are arrogant knowing God chose us not because of anything we've done. You have things exactly backwards, and what is amazing is you are incapable of seeing this and your arrogance for even entertaining the idea that God chose you because of something you did.

Yours, my friend is a false gospel message, it speaks of you, glories in you, not in God. This is for others, you won't have any of this truth, my friend.

 

[marks]

probably due to his talking much about how he earned favor (conditional election based on his performance)

Straw Man. Argue against it to your heart's content.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It states specifically, "not many (wise, mighty, noble) are called (invited)." This shows some are simply not called.

Those He foreknew, also predestined. Those He predestined He also called.

Some were not called, but then, some were not predestined either. And why? They were not foreknown.

Yes, you think that's unfair -- God has to do what you think is fair, or, he can't be God. This makes you your own God.

Is that what I think, that this is not fair, so I don't accept it?

No.

What I actually think is that it's not Biblical, therefore not True, therefore not to be believed.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

You really need to try some humility, marks, your pride has told you that God chose you because you did something,

Substantiate please.

 

[marks]

Nonetheless, this is the same calling that God implements to call his elect in Romans 8:29-30. He predestined them, then called them. This is clearly seen in the passage.

But before He predestined, He foreknew.

Let's start including that fact also, please.

Much love!

 

[marks]

All who are called are saved; John 6:37; John 6:40. These texts prove all who are drawn are called and raised. This excludes then that all men of all time are drawn or we'd have Universalism.

And again . . . foreknew.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Hi Anthony,

Does saying things like this make you feel better? Improve your argument? Just wondering . . .

Much love!

Hello Mark ,
We have asked this poster several times to provide a scriptural answer even if it does not agree with us, just answer.
He responds with accusations and claims we are unsaved and so on.
I told him he was losing credibility if he does not gave the courtesy of taking time to answer he is wasting everyone's time.
He with His latest outburst has moved to clown status. If he wants to be taken seriously he must re engage civil discussions, not clown like posts.
I find it disgusting, not amusing.
Some people want real help. He does not give any indication he is one of them

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

But before He predestined, He foreknew.

Let's start including that fact also, please.

Much love!

He foreknew the sinner himself, not what the sinner would do...it says and whom he did foreknow, not what he did foreknow.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

This is an excellent video, loaded with verses, definitions and theology. Each frame also has what was being said in printed text if you prefer that. So no excuses about videos.

It rejects both Calvinism and Arminianism. In fact it calls Calvinism Gnostic.

It supports what I call Secure Armenianism. The terms I have seen today are confusing.

If you are using Kevin Thompson as a source ,no wonder you are confused. He is horrendous.