Romans 8

[CoreIssue]

@CoreIssue

Still waiting for you to deal with each verse of Romans I went through, and show where my explanation was wrong; and please, if you are going to do that, you should also explain the 'real' interpretation of the support verses I gave as well.

After all, that was the challenge.

And I responded.

 

[Mjh29]

And I responded.

No, you never went through verse by verse and showed me where my interpretation was wrong.

you said "Oh, Calvinism." And moved on, and though that justifies what you are saying.

You asked one of us to go through verse by verse, and I did. But now it's your turn; Tell me where my interpretation is wrong, and explain the support verses and their 'true' meaning.

 

[farouk]

I just used the verses and their direct wording.

So often, the Scriptures are self-evident.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

So often, the Scriptures are self-evident.

Yet many cannot see it.

 

[farouk]

Yet many cannot see it.

This is why the work of the Holy Spirit is so necessary in rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

This is why the work of the Holy Spirit is so necessary in rightly dividing the word of truth.

*BAM*

 

[farouk]

*BAM*

Well, exactly.

 

[SovereignGrace]

No, you never went through verse by verse and showed me where my interpretation was wrong.

you said "Oh, Calvinism." And moved on, and though that justifies what you are saying.

You asked one of us to go through verse by verse, and I did. But now it's your turn; Tell me where my interpretation is wrong, and explain the support verses and their 'true' meaning.

One can not properly exegete Romans 8 and not become Reformed/Calvinist, imo.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yet many cannot see it.

Plus, will not see it.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Well, exactly.

It is a solemn thought, right?

A dilemma:

@farouk: "So often, the Scriptures are self-evident." ----- @Preacher4Truth "Yet many cannot see it."

It is plainly right there, yet, they cannot see it. Now, who is behind that? Would they not say "That (God) is not fair?"

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Plus, will not see it.

Yes, many are willfully ignorant.

 

[farouk]

It is a solemn thought, right?

A dilemma:

@farouk: "So often, the Scriptures are self-evident." ----- @Preacher4Truth "Yet many cannot see it."

It is plainly right there, yet, they cannot see it. Now, who is behind that? Would they not say "That (God) is not fair?"

God needs to be seen in Scripture as God. Instead of Scripture's God being supposedly made to conform to secular man's idea of supposed 'fairness'.

"...let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few." (Ecclesiastes 5.2)

 

[SovereignGrace]

This happens because @Enoch111 and @CoreIssue have thought in their minds what they think the Gospel is, what they think happened, then they read these ideas into Scripture. In other words, they've made up their own gospel and wrest Scripture out of context to support it.

When presented with God in all his glory, and the true Gospel, they are offended.

Take note all: They fight against giving God all the glory, are opposed to it, and their gospel is always pointing to self and their ability. This is the force of all their postings. Note John 6:44; John 1:13; 2 Peter 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31; John 6:29; John 6:63; John 6:65.

If their gospel had to live outside of themselves, it would die, as they are its only source of existence. It is not found in the pages of Scripture and is parasitic in nature.

I remember a member from another forum said men can choose not to sin(implying sinless perfection is possible if they choose it) and the Christ, whilst man on earth, could have sinned if He had chosen to. It boils down to this, men can not ascend to God’s level, so they’ll bring Him down to theirs.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

One can not properly exegete Romans 8 and not become Reformed/Calvinist, imo.

They avoid this at all costs, even adding to Gods word in the process. It is to be delusional, as it is apparent they believe "since they are saved" it will be OK to do this. Goes back to, God knows I chose him, God knows my heart, God understands, it's different because I'm saved -- all verbiage of either severe ignorance or an unconverted state.

 

[marks]

What I have described is the contrast between viewing all things from a self-centered perspective, or viewing things as God views them. On a topic such as this, self-centered just doesn't work.

If that seem strange or foreign, it is the measure of where you are with your thinking, and a sign the there has been very little if any "renewing of your mind."

Isn't your view rather self-centered?

Out of all those He chose . . . and didn't choose . . . He chose ME!

BTW . . . are you SDA?

Much love!
mark

 

[farouk]

I remember a member from another forum said men can choose not to sin(implying sinless perfection is possible if they choose it) and the Christ, whilst man on earth, could have sinned if He had chosen to. It boils down to this, men can not ascend to God’s level, so they’ll bring Him down to theirs.

Sadly, this is how some ppl think; but it's not the God of the Bible that they describe.

To paraphrase Tina Turner, "What's the Bible got to do with it? got to do with it?"

 

[marks]

All of your misunderstanding ends with you robbing God of his glory in salvation and giving it to yourself. Denying God's grace like the false teachers in Peter.

Perjoratives instead of rebuttal.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I remember a member from another forum said men can choose not to sin(implying sinless perfection is possible if they choose it) and the Christ, whilst man on earth, could have sinned if He had chosen to. It boils down to this, men can not ascend to God’s level, so they’ll bring Him down to theirs.

They cannot see all they talk about is themselves, how they chose, how they loved God while lost &c &c &c. And they're ticked off at us for, um, giving God all the glory. All their retorts counter this, are opposed to him receiving all the glory. Watch, nearly every response of theirs does this.

 

[marks]

Sounds like it is you who is just spouting his opinion. Your insecurity is showing.

Another perjorative instead of rebuttal.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You know what has just occurred to me? They were never blind to the truth, or blind to the Gospel, they automatically just loved God and saw all (their) truth clearly, they could see! Because God doesn't force and doesn't want robots, and, so, you know, they knew this and loved God, doing him a huge favor.