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Scripture doesn't say we are saved by 'faith alone'. That was an invention of Martin Luther.mjrhealth said:It is by faith alone we are save still people prefer tp pay fotr the free gift of Grace.
No Jesus did,Scripture doesn't say we are saved by 'faith alone'. That was an invention of Martin Luther.
Faith and works are inseparable.Stranger said:BreadOfLife
You repeatedly show your google list of Scripture verses. But I have already answered them. Yet you must hold on to them.
declared righteous by faith alone is not in the Bible.Well, if one is declared righteous by faith
, how does he lose that righteousness by lack of works?
Works does, in fact, play a role because they are inseparable from faith. No one is truly "declared righteous" util they are dead.Think. If works played no role in your being 'declared' righteous, then why would works play a role in you being undeclared righteous.
Works produces your own righteousness. We are talking about being declared righteous, which is only obtained by faith.
"By grace you are saved by faith..." doesn't say 'faith alone'. And isn't alms giving a work?mjrhealth said:No Jesus did,
By grace you are saved by faith,not by works lest any man should boast, and oh how man loves to boast and to be seeing to be doing and so earns his reward upon this earth disregarding his reward in heaven
Mat_6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
but
Mat_6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
The reason I keep posting this list is to expose the fact that YOU are ignoring the word "Epignosis."Stranger said:BreadOfLife
You repeatedly show your google list of Scripture verses. But I have already answered them. Yet you must hold on to them.
Well, if one is declared righteous by faith, how does he lose that righteousness by lack of works? Think. If works played no role in your being 'declared' righteous, then why would works play a role in you being undeclared righteous.
Works produces your own righteousness. We are talking about being declared righteous, which is only obtained by faith.
Stranger
As long as YOU and Stranger insist that faith is simply "believing" - then you have absolutely no idea what true faith actually is.mjrhealth said:It is by faith alone we are save still people prefer tp pay fotr the free gift of Grace.
I give up....Stranger said:Do you see clearly that (Matt. 25:32) speaks to nations? " And before him shall be gathered all nations;"
Do you see clearly that the saved nations, the sheep nations, those on Christ's right hand, enter into the kingdom? (Matt. 25:34)
Do you see clearly that the unsaved nations, the goat nations, those on Christ's left hand, enter into everlasting fire?
So clearly nations in that day will have these characteristics. Again, (Rev.21:24) "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it:"
Stranger
No, you give up because I have answered your questions and you have no response. Other than, I must be wrong because....I am proud, so must be wrong.tom55 said:I give up....
Your theory makes no sense and is not backed up by logic or scripture. You have been shown this MANY times by myself and several other members of Cyb but you are too proud to admit you are wrong.
No, you keep posting a google list because it's all you got. Looks impressive...but found to be pretty empty once the debate begins.BreadOfLife said:The reason I keep posting this list is to expose the fact that YOU are ignoring the word "Epignosis."
As long as those who are reading this exchange understand that your argument dies a quick death because of this - they can come to the correct conclusion that salvation is NOT guaranteed if we don't cooperate with God's grace.
I advised you to look up the word "Epignosis" and have given you it's definition - yet you continue to state that it simply means "knowledge" (oida/gnosis).
This is the kind of denial for which that God will hold you accountable . . .
No - I never gave up and you're position STILL doesn't make sense.Stranger said:No, you give up because I have answered your questions and you have no response. Other than, I must be wrong because....I am proud, so must be wrong.
See, you don't really want an answer to your questions. You believe your questions have no answer other than your answer. You'll be back.
Stranger
Please pay attention. My response here was not to you.BreadOfLife said:No - I never gave up and you're position STILL doesn't make sense.
You claim that Matt. 25:32 is talking about a judgment of "Nations" yet you fail to see that individuals are being spoken of here:
Matt. 25:32
All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will SEPARATE PEOPLE ONE FROM ANOTHER like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
I have asked you repeatedly to show me where the Bible teaches that God will judge us according to which nation we belong to and you have failed to do so.
I told you that God does not judge us on a curve and you agreed - only to repeat your nonsense that we will be judged according to which nation we belong to.
You're all over the place because you've been caught with your Scriptural pants down and you can't admit that you're wrong.
Truly pathetic . . .
WRONG.Stranger said:Please pay attention. My response here was not to you.
But just to answer...I have shown you in the Bible where God will judge according to the 'nations'. You just don't believe it. You add the word 'people'. Scripture says 'nations'.
My response to you was post #170. Still waiting your response.
Stranger
No, not wrong. The response I gave was not to you. And I'm waiting for your response to my post #170.BreadOfLife said:WRONG.
I have repeatedly shown you the verse - in English and in Greek.
The words "Nations" and "PEOPLE" are BOTH used. Since you are obviously having difficulty - I will highlight the words in different colors:
Matt. 25:32http://biblia.com/bible/hcsb/Matt. 25.32
All the NATIONS will be assembled before him, and he will SEPARATE PEOPLE ONE FROM ANOTHER like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, pal . . .
And i already proved to you - in the Greek - that BOTH words are there:Stranger said:No, not wrong. The response I gave was not to you. And I'm waiting for your response to my post #170.
Again, the word 'people' is not there. The word 'nations' and 'them' which refers to the nations is there. I know, you're big with the 'buzz words' such as 'denial'. But, as always, you say things but don't prove anything.
Stranger
You must REALLY love being publicly humiliated . . .Stranger said:No, you keep posting a google list because it's all you got. Looks impressive...but found to be pretty empty once the debate begins.
Really? Where did I say 'epignosis' means simply knowledge?
Stranger
The word 'them' speaks to 'nations'. The word 'people' is not there.BreadOfLife said:And i already proved to you - in the Greek - that BOTH words are there:
Matt. 25:32
All the NATIONS will be gathered before him, and he will separate the PEOPLE one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
καὶ συναχθήσονται ἔμπροσθεν αὐτοῦ πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, καὶ ἀφορίσει αὐτοὺς ἀπ᾿ ἀλλήλων, ὥσπερ ὁ ποιμὴν ἀφορίζει τὰ πρόβατα ἀπὸ τῶν ἐρίφων,
Nations – ἔθνη (eth'-nos)
People – αὐτοὺς (ow-tos')
Don't you ever tire of being publicly humiliated?
Thank you.BreadOfLife said:You must REALLY love being publicly humiliated . . .
In post #100 - YOU said:
"They have a knowledge but they are not saved."
In post #108 - YOU said:
"Concerning (2Peter 2:20-22), they had a knowledge but were not believers. Big difference"
Ummmm, ONE more time:
"Epignosis" means FULL experientlal knowledge.
experienced Jesus in a FULL and COMPLETE way - as TRUE believers.
Gnosis and oida simply mean "knowledge".
This indicates that you know ABOUT something or someone but you don't TRULY know them.
Pretty simple, really . . .