Sabbath Issues

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I feel sure we're mostly in agreement but presumably Paul wasn't talking about the New Testament when he wrote this: 2 Timothy 3:16

Correct. But do you believe Paul where he wrote this? So what's the difference between <this: 2 Timothy 3:16> and Paul writing this?

See what I mean? Sure you do.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

God performed the first marriage and Jesus taught about marriage and so did the apostles.
Nowhere was it said that marriage was only for Jews, but it did say that the Sabbath was.
Marriage is almost a universal union no matter what country you live in, or what religion you belong to.
That cannot be said for the Sabbath.

Woman's 'logic'!

<God performed the first marriage> WHERE and WHEN? You, are referring to at creation.
So <Nowhere is it said that marriage was only for Jews>, in the creation passages in Genesis.

So WHERE in the creation passages in Genesis does it <say that the Sabbath .. was only for Jews>?
You are loudly lying! Nowhere in the creation passages in Genesis does it say that the Sabbath was only for Jews.
I'll retract and say I'm sorry that I said you are a LIAR the moment you supply the Scripture that says the Sabbath was only for Jews, and I shall go further, and as soon as you will supply ANY written Scripture that states the Sabbath was only for Jews, I'll retract and beg, BEG, your forgiveness.

 

[GEN2REV]

Spot on.....I don't believe I heard Jesus mention dinosaurs even once, but he did mention a dragon.....not a literal dragon but something big and dangerous and terrifying....he called this dragon "the serpent of old" which would be the snake in the garden of Eden. Is the snake a dragon?

The word "dragon" is from the Greek draʹkon, depicting a terrifying monster, a serpentlike devourer, more from their mythology than actual living creatures. This word occurs 13 times in the Bible but only in the highly symbolic book of Revelation, and it represents Satan the Devil....so how do they argue that dinosaurs are dragons....seriously...?

Seriously? Well, ...

Sir Richard Owen
The man who invented the dinosaur. The Victorian scientist who coined the word "dinosaur" has been honoured with a plaque at the school he attended as a child.
Feb 26, 2015

They were called Dragons until their name was conveniently changed to Dinosaurs by Richard Owen in the middle 1800's, as I said. They were also identified on old world maps - indicating where they dwelled, etc.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-31623397#:~:text=The Victorian scientist who coined,he attended as a child.

For those interested in further study of the subject, it is fascinating. Here are some verses from scripture about Dragons and an additional list from the Apocryphal books. These verses are found only in the KJV, newer translations have changed the word 'dragon' to something more evolution/science-friendly. NOTE: the Bible translation that pops up when you hover over the verse with your mouse is not KJV, they use a newer translation on this Forum.

Deuteronomy 32:33
Job 30:29
Psalms 44:19, 74:13, 148:7
Isaiah 13:22, 34:13, 35:7, 43:20
Jeremiah 9:11, 14:6, 49:33, 51:37
Micah 1:8
Malachi 1:3

Apocryphal verses:
2 Esdras 15:29, 31
The rest of Esther 10:7, 11:6
Wisdom of Solomon 6:10

There is also a book in the Apocrypha that was taken straight out of the Bible called 'Bel and the Dragon' about a fire-breathing dragon that was worshiped as a god in the time of Daniel. Daniel proved to the king that it was not a god by feeding it cakes of pitch, fat and hair (a very flammable mixture) and the dragon blew up from the inside out.

 

[GEN2REV]

God performed the first marriage and Jesus taught about marriage and so did the apostles.
Nowhere was it said that marriage was only for Jews, but it did say that the Sabbath was.
Marriage is almost a universal union no matter what country you live in, or what religion you belong to.
That cannot be said for the Sabbath.

Woman's 'logic'!

<God performed the first marriage> WHERE and WHEN? You, are referring to at creation.
So <Nowhere is it said that marriage was only for Jews>, in the creation passages in Genesis.

So WHERE in the creation passages in Genesis does it <say that the Sabbath .. was only for Jews>?
You are loudly lying! Nowhere in the creation passages in Genesis does it say that the Sabbath was only for Jews.
I'll retract and say I'm sorry that I said you are a LIAR the moment you supply the Scripture that says the Sabbath was only for Jews, and I shall go further, and as soon as you will supply ANY written Scripture that states the Sabbath was only for Jews, I'll retract and beg, BEG, your forgiveness.

Yes, and I too will beg your forgiveness, sweet-sweet Jane.






(Relax, it's a song lyrics reference.)

 

[strobe]

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: ..."

Clearly.

What cult am I in?

This oughta be interesting. Always enjoyed people informing me of things about myself I didn't know.

Am I in the cult of the Bible Believing Christians?

I'd love to meet 'em.

You don't believe the Bible, you believe your interpretation of it and you try to recruit members by telling them they have to accept your word or they aren't Christians.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Extra-curricular sources aren't valid for proving scripture, they are the opinions of prideful men.

Your 'indisputable facts' must first be facts before they can be without dispute. They are not. Just because there is no verse in the NT that states "be sure to continue to keep the 4th Commandment" doesn't support the erroneous position that it is irrelevant now. There is no verse that states that for many of the 10 Commandments and yet they are all embraced by modern Christendom except the Sabbath Commandment.

You can't claim your 3 facts as legitimate when we have Luke 4:16 which makes crystal clear that Jesus observed the Sabbath every single Sabbath day His entire life. It doesn't have to repeat it throughout the account of His ministry. And the Rock-solid FACT that Paul observed ALL the 10 Commandments further destroys your "indisputable facts". Acts 21:24

You are completely clueless pertaining WHAT I WROTE. You are not the least interested in WHAT I WROTE. You are a totally self-centered ignoramus, prideful man, whose head is swollen full of ONE thing, his own <opinion>.

I DO NOT use any, <extra-curricular sources> whatever bull that may mean. I speak of Scripture with Scripture from Scripture, and the fact you cannot even recognise that I do, is proof only of your total selfish self-interest despising honest and tested, conclusive Scripture-endorsed proof, BECAUSE IT IS NOT YOURS. Empty noisy tin can scalp!

My 'indisputable facts' are not mine – they are plain factual visible bare, nude, Scripture fact.

A. The Sabbath is being read of in the Gospels ONLY at the very beginning of Jesus’ 3 ½ years ministry, and with the single exception of

B. Matthew 24:20 Mark 13:18 is not read of again, until

C. Matthew 27:62 to 28:4 at the very END and CLIMAX of Jesus’ earthly ministry.

You come forward with references or mention of the Sabbath in the Gospels, of any kind on other occasions than these three! Then, you may try throw up your opinionated bull dust protests that <facts must first be facts before they can be without dispute>.

These three facts are divinely pre-determined and divinely eternally confirmed, fact, IN JESUS CHRIST, else none of, would be Holy Scripture.

 

[Grailhunter]

You don't believe the Bible, you believe your interpretation of it and you try to recruit members by telling them they have to accept your word or they aren't Christians.

Well first off if you are serious about even moderate understanding of the scriptures....you need to get a good Bible.

 

[GEN2REV]

You don't believe the Bible, you believe your interpretation of it and you try to recruit members by telling them they have to accept your word or they aren't Christians.

Hmmm...

Ok.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Not sure what the big purple declaration was meant to suggest but how about we look At Hebrews 4 in context and see what the whole passage has to say....?



Hebrews 4:1-10....
4 Therefore, since a promise of entering into his rest remains, let us be on guard for fear someone among you seems to fall short of it. 2 For we have also had the good news declared to us, just as they had; but the word that they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. 3 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They will not enter into my rest,’” although his works were finished from the founding of the world. 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.”

6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience, 7 he again marks off a certain day by saying long afterward in David’s psalm, “Today”; just as it has been said above, “Today if you listen to his voice, do not harden your hearts.” 8 For if Joshua had led them into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God. 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.”

Now, since this was a follow on from the final verses of chapter 3, we read...
“For who heard and yet provoked him to bitter anger? Was it not, in fact, all those who went out of Egypt under Moses? 17 Moreover, with whom did God become disgusted for 40 years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter into his rest? Was it not to those who acted disobediently? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of lack of faith.”

So what did God mean by “entering into his rest”? This was not the Sabbath rest that the people of Israel were commanded to observe but something that was figurative of a much larger meaning.

In the Genesis account, there is a declaration at the end of each creative “day”.....the sixth day even ended as “very good” in God’s estimations of his work thus far.....but on the seventh day God “rested”, not that he was tired but that his creative work was complete at the end of the sixth “day”.
Nowhere does the account say that these creative “days” were 24 hour periods....and science confirms that the earth and its extinct creatures are way older than a mere 6,000 years. The Hebrew word for “day” is like our own, it can mean more than just a 24 hour period. If I speak of my grandfather’s “day”, I am not talking about a 24 hour period, so with the Hebrew “yohm”.....it doesn’t just mean a 24 hour period, but can be a period of undetermined length. The YEC’s have got it all wrong....embarrassingly so.

So the seventh day began a period where God had rested from his creative works but as Jesus said, ‘he and his Father have kept working’ and will continue to work until his purpose in connection with mankind on this beautiful planet, is brought to a completion.

The seventh day was not a 24 hour period that has passed, but it is still in progress. “Entering into God’s rest” was then living in a time that God had allotted for all that he had put in place to play out as he intended. It would be a time for free will beings to make their choices and reap what they had sown, learning the lessons of where disobedience would take them...and also learning about the blessings of obedience, which unfortunately were not as numerous as the penalties for disobedience among his people, (as Hebrews 4 highlights.)

Disobedient ones will never benefit from the lessons of the seventh day.....those will not enter into God’s rest...only the obedient ones will.

Hebrews 4:9-10 in context now make sense....
“So there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God. 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.”

Right from the beginning, Jehovah indicated his solution to the rebellion in Eden. (Genesis 3:15) This first prophesy was not really understood until Messiah came and explained in more detail the way his ransom sacrifice would would involve him suffering a “heel” wound, (from which he recovered,) but he would finally deal the devil a fatal “head” wound...in the future.
So Jesus has featured all the way through God’s “rest” day.

The Weekly Sabbath was a day of rest for God’s people and they were forbidden to do any work, but only to concentrate on spiritual pursuits. This guaranteed that at least one day in the week, they would remember their God and devote a day to reminding themselves of his provisions. It was a way to keep thankful.....but the wider Sabbath...the important one was the rest day that God has almost now brought to a completion. Only when Christ has judged the world and cleansed it of all who are disobedient, will he bring in the rule of the final 1,000 years of God’s rest day, under the rule of his kingdom. Only when everything is again back to the way God wants his earth to be, will the declaration be made at the conclusion of the seventh day......everything will again be “very good”.

Jesus is “Lord of the Sabbath” because he has been appointed by his God and Father to guide and direct matters here on this earth during that time, and to make the necessary sacrifice to redeem those whom the devil has taken off course. What an incredible act of love on his part.....and on the part of his Father in giving him such trust and responsibility.

Free willed beings can use use this quality to either obey God as Jesus always did, or to disobey him as Satan chose to......we are all making our choices too....so may we all choose well as Jesus is about to return as judge and to cleanse this world of all who oppose the incoming Kingdom of God. (1 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

Q<What I post is just my opinion>Q - extremely - excessively - inflated opinion judged by this post.

 

[GEN2REV]

You are completely clueless pertaining WHAT I WROTE. You are not the least interested in WHAT I WROTE. You are a totally self-centered ignoramus, prideful man, whose head is swollen full of ONE thing, his own <opinion>.

I DO NOT use any, <extra-curricular sources> whatever bull that may mean. I speak of Scripture with Scripture from Scripture, and the fact you cannot even recognise that I do, is proof only of your total selfish self-interest despising honest and tested, conclusive Scripture-endorsed proof, BECAUSE IT IS NOT YOURS. Empty noisy tin can scalp!

My 'indisputable facts' are not mine – they are plain factual visible bare, nude, Scripture fact.

A. The Sabbath is being read of in the Gospels ONLY at the very beginning of Jesus’ 3 ½ years ministry, and with the single exception of

B. Matthew 24:20 Mark 13:18 is not read of again, until

C. Matthew 27:62 to 28:4 at the very END and CLIMAX of Jesus’ earthly ministry.

You come forward with references or mention of the Sabbath in the Gospels, of any kind on other occasions than these three! Then, you may try throw up your opinionated bull dust protests that <facts must first be facts before they can be without dispute>.

These three facts are divinely pre-determined and divinely eternally confirmed, fact, IN JESUS CHRIST, else none of, would be Holy Scripture.

Did I say extra-curricular? Honest mistake. I meant extra-biblical. Think I did that in another thread as well. Not sure it called for that level of venom, though, hot head.

Extra-curricular was a very ugly thing to say to you. I am ashamed and full of regret. Please accept my apologies.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Woman's 'logic'!

<God performed the first marriage> WHERE and WHEN? You, are referring to at creation.
So <Nowhere is it said that marriage was only for Jews>, in the creation passages in Genesis.

So WHERE in the creation passages in Genesis does it <say that the Sabbath .. was only for Jews>?
You are loudly lying! Nowhere in the creation passages in Genesis does it say that the Sabbath was only for Jews.
I'll retract and say I'm sorry that I said you are a LIAR the moment you supply the Scripture that says the Sabbath was only for Jews, and I shall go further, and as soon as you will supply ANY written Scripture that states the Sabbath was only for Jews, I'll retract and beg, BEG, your forgiveness.

From post #111
Deuteronomy 5:15....
"Remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and that Jehovah your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why Jehovah your God commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."

That the Sabbath was not enjoined upon any of God’s people until after the Exodus is evident from the testimony of Deuteronomy 5:2, 3 and Exodus 31:16, 17: “It was not with our forefathers that Jehovah concluded this covenant, but with us.” “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath . . . during their generations. . . . Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.”
If Israel had already been observing the Sabbath, it could not have served as a reminder of their deliverance from Egypt.

So unless you are Jewish and consider the old covenant to still be in force, there is no command to keep Sabbath for Christ's disciples.

Be careful about name calling.....’as you judge, so will you be judged’....Remember...?

Apology accepted.....

 

[Aunty Jane]

For those interested in further study of the subject, it is fascinating. Here are some verses from scripture about Dragons and an additional list from the Apocryphal books. These verses are found only in the KJV, newer translations have changed the word 'dragon' to something more evolution/science-friendly. NOTE: the Bible translation that pops up when you hover over the verse with your mouse is not KJV, they use a newer translation on this Forum.

Deuteronomy 32:33
Job 30:29
Psalms 44:19, 74:13, 148:7
Isaiah 13:22, 34:13, 35:7, 43:20
Jeremiah 9:11, 14:6, 49:33, 51:37
Micah 1:8
Malachi 1:3

Yes, I see a definite conspiracy to remove the dragons and to insert the names of animals that actually exist....”jackals” seem to be popular. Are jackals dragons then?

Tap on the links to these scriptures you provided and find me a dragon. Good grief....only in the KJV?
Why am I not surprised....?

Apocryphal verses:
2 Esdras 15:29, 31
The rest of Esther 10:7, 11:6
Wisdom of Solomon 6:10

There is also a book in the Apocrypha that was taken straight out of the Bible called 'Bel and the Dragon' about a fire-breathing dragon that was worshiped as a god in the time of Daniel. Daniel proved to the king that it was not a god by feeding it cakes of pitch, fat and hair (a very flammable mixture) and the dragon blew up from the inside out.

There is a reason why the apocrypha books are not included in the Bible canon. They are out of harmony with the canonical books.
But if you want to believe that dinosaurs were dragons, then please tell me if dragons were on the ark...?

“That serpent of old” in Revelation is the only “dragon” mentioned in the Bible. So was Eve confronted by a dragon or a serpent? (Revelation 12:7-9) Do you need to rewrite Genesis or Revelation?
Back to the drawing board for you.....time to do some more homework....you actually have more egg on your face than before, so please do yourself a favour and post a correction.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Q<What I post is just my opinion>Q - extremely - excessively - inflated opinion judged by this post.

Perhaps you need to read some of your own inflated posts.....

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, I see a definite conspiracy to remove the dragons and to insert the names of animals that actually exist....”jackals” seem to be popular. Are jackals dragons then?

@GEN2REV

Are guys trying to convince yourselves that you understand biblical languages or do you want others to believe you understand biblical languages?

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes, I see a definite conspiracy to remove the dragons and to insert the names of animals that actually exist....”jackals” seem to be popular. Are jackals dragons then?
Tap on the links to these scriptures you provided and find me a dragon. Good grief....only in the KJV?
Why am I not surprised....?
There is a reason why the apocrypha books are not included in the Bible canon. They are out of harmony with the canonical books.
But if you want to believe that dinosaurs were dragons, then please tell me if dragons were on the ark...?
“That serpent of old” in Revelation is the only “dragon” mentioned in the Bible. So was Eve confronted by a dragon or a serpent? (Revelation 12:7-9) Do you need to rewrite Genesis or Revelation?
Back to the drawing board for you.....time to do some more homework....you actually have more egg on your face than before, so please do yourself a favour and post a correction.

Strong's Lexicon

of serpents,
תַּנִּינִ֖ם (tan·nî·nim)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 8577: 1) dragon, serpent, sea monster 1a) dragon or dinosaur 1b) sea or river monster 1c) serpent, venomous snake
Deuteronomy 32:33 Parallel: Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

The very first verse in that list and there ya go, Aunty. It was REALLY hard to find, too. Took me a whole TWENTY seconds to find and post it. Bet you're glad nobody can see your humiliated face now, huh?. You must feel ... REALLY stupid.

You're not, though. It's ok. We all get completely owned and humiliated sometimes.
Chin up.

@GEN2REV
Are guys trying to convince yourselves that you understand biblical languages or do you want others to believe you understand biblical languages?

Yep.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

DO NOT follow me, follow Jesus who will lead you to all knowledge and understanding.

Jesus will lead you and no one anywhere or anyhow except according to the Scriptures and the simplest, the most straight forward, and the, to man, MOST AFFRONTING AND HUMILIATING knowledge and understanding.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Strong's Lexicon

of serpents,
תַּנִּינִ֖ם (tan·nî·nim)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 8577: 1) dragon, serpent, sea monster 1a) dragon or dinosaur 1b) sea or river monster 1c) serpent, venomous snake
Deuteronomy 32:33 Parallel: Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

LOL....that is quite an array of definitions there wouldn't you say? Not exactly defining one creature but combining an array of creatures which are not similar at all....so how accurate is that definition, do you think?
Would you mistake a dragon for a serpent, a sea monster, a jackal or a venomous snake? Seriously? Have you checked out how this word is translated in other Bible verses?

So the devil was a dinosaur according to your reckoning? He is the only “dragon” mentioned in the NT.
According to Revelation 12:7-9 KJV...
“7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
So dinosaurs have angels then? And they were in heaven....?

You are digging a very big hole to bury yourself in.....it’s just getting more and more bizarre....

The very first verse in that list and there ya go, Aunty. It was REALLY hard to find, too. Took me a whole TWENTY seconds to find and post it. Bet you're glad nobody can see your humiliated face now, huh?. You must feel ... REALLY stupid.

Well, one of us is looking pretty stupid right now.....I am not the one claiming that dinosaurs were dragons......if dinosaurs have angels, and they were in heaven, then I know who looks pretty stupid....

We all get completely owned and humiliated sometimes.
Chin up.
Yep.

You’re hilarious......owned and humiliated? What you post is pretty twisted but then......a KJV supporter is to be pitied rather than blamed. It’s not God’s translation...sorry to have to break that news to you....

 

[Grailhunter]

Strong's Lexicon

of serpents,
תַּנִּינִ֖ם (tan·nî·nim)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 8577: 1) dragon, serpent, sea monster 1a) dragon or dinosaur 1b) sea or river monster 1c) serpent, venomous snake
Deuteronomy 32:33 Parallel: Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

The very first verse in that list and there ya go, Aunty. It was REALLY hard to find, too. Took me a whole TWENTY seconds to find and post it. Bet you're glad nobody can see your humiliated face now, huh?. You must feel ... REALLY stupid.

You're not, though. It's ok. We all get completely owned and humiliated sometimes.
Chin up.
Yep.

The discussion I was watching was about jackals and dragons.
Which scriptures should dragons be in and which ones are jackals?
And then we have Leviathan.

What are they trying to describe?
And why were they trying to slip in the word dragon in there? Mainly the KJV.

What is a dragon in the Old Testament?
What is a Leviathan in the Old Testament?
Keep in mind the word or understanding of dinosaur did not exist in the biblical era.
How much of it is about living animals and how much of it about connecting something to Satan and how much of it is symbiology?

 

[GEN2REV]

Would you mistake a dragon for a serpent, a sea monster, a jackal or a venomous snake? Seriously? Have you checked out how this word is translated in other Bible verses?

No. No jackal in there.

Go ahead and look it up in Strong's. Start with the next verse I posted. Job 30:29

I'll give you a hint: It means dragon which meant dinosaur before 1842.

Learning is fun.

 

[Grailhunter]

No. No jackal in there.

Go ahead and look it up in Strong's. Start with the next verse I posted. Job 30:29

I'll give you a hint: It means dragon which meant dinosaur before 1842.

Learning is fun.

Nope Jackal for Job 30:29
You should be very concerned about what you believe....because if you say it.....it is usually wrong.