Yes you are. Believing you can go to hell if you sin is works salvation. You don't even know what you believe??The Barrd said:
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Obviously, you do not know what I believe.ATP said:
I've told you....Christ's disciples do not do these things in order to be saved....we do them because we have been saved.
It is impossible for a follower of Jesus Christ not to respond to His great love.
Love...love is the key.
By adding hell into your doctrine you are preaching works salvation. You obviously do not know what you believe. I'll will pray for you.The Barrd said:
Now try looking at it the other way round.ATP said:
No, God is not contradictory. He would not spend three years walking among us teaching us how to live a holy life, if He did not intend that we should live a holy life. We have instructions to feed the hungry, to visit the sick, to clothe the naked, and house the homeless...we are to give without expecting anything back...we are to love one another as He loves us...we are even to love our enemies! We have, preserved for us, His precise instructions on how to pray, and how to keep ourselves in God's will. We are told Whom we are to fear, and why. No, He would not do all of this and then sent some other messenger to tell us to relax....it was all just a gag.
No, ATP....your logic has a major flaw in it.
You did not include Jesus....
But I did include Jesus. Who's blood are they referring to Barrd....The Barrd said:
Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.
God is not contradictory. Either God is OSAS or NON-OSAS.
That's okay, ATP....His sheep hear His voice and He knows them. He knows me, and He hears my prayers...of that I am absolutely positive. There is not the slightest iota of doubt in my mind.ATP said:
I'm sure you mean well....and if you want to pray for me, I'm sure I would not try to keep you from it.
Who knows? Perhaps, while you are praying, God may reveal Himself to you.
I"ve been praying for you for some time now....
Well there is doubt in your mind. You have added hell into your doctrine. Are you truly believing Barrd......The Barrd said:
John 10:28-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."
There is a lot more to Jesus than just His blood, ATP.ATP said:But I did include Jesus. Who's blood are they referring to Barrd....
Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.
God is not contradictory. Either God is OSAS or NON-OSAS.
For instance:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
How could you have missed these beautiful words?
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Hear Him! This is the Man Whose blood was shed for you! Get to know Him, ATP...get to know your Saviour! Then, and only then, you just might understand how dearly your much-touted salvation actually cost....
When it comes to eternal security, His blood is the only thing that keeps us in Him.The Barrd said:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Oh...did He say????
Yes, He did! He said that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, we can not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Whoa...did He say that our anger could keep us out of Heaven?
And wait....did He mention hell?
Yep...He sure did!
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Oh...did He say????
Yes, He did! He said that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, we can not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Whoa...did He say that our anger could keep us out of Heaven?
And wait....did He mention hell?
Yep...He sure did!
You need to get to know Him, ATP....the Whole Man...not just His blood.ATP said:
You need to understand just Who your Saviour is.
To continue:
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Sounds a whole lot as if our lust can send us into hell...doesn't it?
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Jesus evidently is not a fan of "no-fault divorce"....
Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Doesn't seem as if He likes the idea of swearing an oath, either. If you've made a vow, you'd better keep it...
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Sounds a whole lot as if our lust can send us into hell...doesn't it?
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Jesus evidently is not a fan of "no-fault divorce"....
Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Doesn't seem as if He likes the idea of swearing an oath, either. If you've made a vow, you'd better keep it...
Makes a difference when you actually read His words as He speaks them, doesn't it?
But there is more:
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
So, we are not to try to "get even"...even as Christ did not come to earth to "get even" with sinners...
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
This is the first chapter of the famous "Sermon on the Mount". It continues through Matt 6-7.
Read it, ATP.
Forget all about doctrine...forget about proving a point....forget about who is "right" or who is "wrong". Just lose yourself in the Lord's beautiful words. Get to know the Man Whose blood was shed for you, ATP. Harmless as a kitten and gentle as a dove....
Learn what kind of a Man He is, and what He expects from His followers.
Learn to love Him for the beautiful and amazing God that He is...
but beware...there is another side to Him...as some merchants who used to ply their trade in the Temple courtyard could testify....
But there is more:
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
So, we are not to try to "get even"...even as Christ did not come to earth to "get even" with sinners...
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
This is the first chapter of the famous "Sermon on the Mount". It continues through Matt 6-7.
Read it, ATP.
Forget all about doctrine...forget about proving a point....forget about who is "right" or who is "wrong". Just lose yourself in the Lord's beautiful words. Get to know the Man Whose blood was shed for you, ATP. Harmless as a kitten and gentle as a dove....
Learn what kind of a Man He is, and what He expects from His followers.
Learn to love Him for the beautiful and amazing God that He is...
but beware...there is another side to Him...as some merchants who used to ply their trade in the Temple courtyard could testify....
Let me whisper another secret into your ear, ATP.
Unless you have the kind of faith a little child has, it isn't going to matter what you believe, or even what you do...you will not see heaven.
Jesus has a major soft spot in His great heart for little children...no matter how old they are.
Luk 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Unless you have the kind of faith a little child has, it isn't going to matter what you believe, or even what you do...you will not see heaven.
Jesus has a major soft spot in His great heart for little children...no matter how old they are.
Luk 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
He is referring to the righteousness inserted by faith through believing, grace covenant being the better covenant.The Barrd said:
Matt 5:17 NIV “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Heb 7:22 NIV Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
Going to hell by calling someone a fool? Uhh no. Hell fire in Matt 5:22 is describing in figurative language God's anger towards sin, similar to Deut 32:22 NIV. The word "anger" is mentioned 13 times, the word "kindled" is mentioned 1 time, the word "wrath" is mentioned 1 time, the words "figurative language" is mentioned one time, the word "metaphor" is mentioned 3 times and the word "symbolized" is mentioned twice here....http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-22.htmThe Barrd said:
Deut 32:22 NIV For a fire will be kindled by my wrath, one that burns down to the realm of the dead below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains.
I've had a relationship with Jesus Christ for ten years now. I know who my Savior is.The Barrd said:
Ten years....Hun, I've been following Him for 53 years. I've read it through, cover to cover, probably at least three or four times for every year you've been a Christian.ATP said:
As I suspected you would do, you immediately start trying to take this beautiful sermon apart, looking for ways to make it mean what you want it to mean.ATP said:
Just once, try simply reading the words...forget about proving a point.
Imagine you are there, in the crowd, hearing these words for the very first time.....
The fact is, ATP, that I do not see you as being qualified to be a teacher. You are a newbie...you are still learning. You still trip over your tongue...you have not yet developed wisdom or patience. You are so sure that you are "right" that you don't think you need to listen to anyone else...no, not even the Lord, Himself.
Hopefully, you will grow out of that arrogance in time....I hope.
Meantime, you don't have a snowball's chance of teaching me anything. I've seen your kind come....and I've seen 'em go. That arrogance is very common...for those who have not yet gotten a few callouses on their feet...but I am hoping that you will learn.
Your faith will be severely tested, my friend....it seems to happen to all of us sooner or later.
But I am still praying for you....
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