Sabbath-Keeping

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
74
...following a Jewish carpenter...
mjrhealth said:
That part,

Now Al lsi forgiven. Its by our Fruit, you know the one. defaming one to earn brownie points is a game that politicians play when needing votes, but it doesnt make you ;look good at all.

Now if you really knew Christ as you say you do, would you do such a thing....

Still all is forgiven.
Whoa, hold up a minute here. YOU were the one defending homosexuality, and telling me that I was so lucky to be born perfect, remember?
You talked just the way I have heard many, many gays talk online...talking about being "born that way".
I pointed out to you that we were all "born that way"....we are all born into sin, and we all have to fight it in ourselves...but you continued to maintain people's right to be gay.
Just the way so many other gay people have done.
I'm still not so sure that you are not gay...you have not said, outright, whether you are or not. And frankly, it doesn't really matter, since you, who claim to be a Christian, were openly defending a sin that God has called an abomination. To do so is to encourage people to engage in a behavior that God has condemned, and that will separate them from the love of God which is in Christ. Instead, you need to be encouraging them to repent, and put that sin behind them, as Christ would have them to do. So, whether you are gay or not, you are still involved in the sin.
And, perhaps, in the long run, your sin is the worse, because by it you condemn them to a sinner's hell, rather than leading them to Christ to be saved.

However, I have freely admitted that I am not perfect, I am capable of making a mistake.

Now you want to cast doubt on my faith? How dare you. Here I am, begging people to repent before it is too late.
You are willing that gay men and women should keep right on sinning, and wind up condemned, because they would not come to Christ and be cleansed.
Which of us, then, is truly showing love?

By the way, thank you for forgiving me...however, you are a bit late with it.
Jesus did that over fifty years ago...
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ATP said:
The world doesn't hate believers because of the ten commandments, they hate believers because of what we believe in. That Jesus died on the cross for all sins and was resurrected once again.
Bro, you're right because the Bible tells us why the Cross of Jesus is offensive: it denies salvation by works and is an in-your-face rebuke to every single other system of religion, ALL of which are works-based, from the Eastern religions, to Judaism, to Roman Catholicism. Keeping the Sabbath is the sign that we are surrendered to the only true and wise Creator God and His authority, while those who break God's commandments show themselves surrendered to Satan.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ATP said:
My God is Jesus Christ brother. You shall know them by their fruits. OSAS is truth.
OSAS teaches that Christians need only to have faith "in" Jesus to be saved, right? That is not Biblical. The Bible says that Christians are also to have the faith "OF" Jesus (Revelation 14:12 KJV).

OSAS people do not have the faith "OF" Jesus because while Jesus' faith enabled Him to keep His Father's commandments even in the midst of severe temptation (John 15:10 KJV; Matthew 4:1-10 KJV), OSAS teaches that keeping the Ten Commandments is not possible. Therefore, OSAS is not truth - it is a deception designed to convince those who possess dead faith that they may obtain that which may be obtained only by living faith: eternal life.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ATP said:
All I'm saying is that grace covers us. It is impossible to lose our salvation.
Show me one verse which teaches in no uncertain terms that we cannot lose salvation.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
OSAS is a doctrine which has convinced those who possess dead that they may obtain that which comes only by living faith - eternal life. But the sad reality is that they really do not believe OSAS in the first place!

Proof?

If OSAS Christians really believe that they are free to kill others and themselves without any impact on their eternal destiny, then why do they choose to remain here on this dreaded, miserable, Satanically controlled planet when all that separates them from the here and now and the glorious presence of Jesus is to break the 6th commandment!

No doubt, the response is, "Because Jesus wants us to __________." To that, I answer, "Why not fight tooth and nail against having to do that as much as you fight tooth and nail against Jesus' desire for us to keep the Ten Commandments including the Sabbath?"
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
mjrhealth said:
Se bard, no, love, you have no idea of where I come from, you know what assumption does dont you, ii makes an.... think very hard on it.

It was always teh Pharisees who hated Jesus because He spent so much time with teh sinners, it was always the pharisees who wanted to kill Jesus because He showd them for what they where. it was alwyas teh pahirsees whom Jesus tried to show how wrong they where but they prefeerd therir position in mans eyes than the truth, and that is why He said to the,

I did not come to bring the "righteous" but sinners to repentance, they where so filled with themselves they had no place for Him.

I really hope you can find Jesus soon.

In allhis Love
Why do you always accuse those who disagree with you as not knowing Jesus, and thereby seat yourself down in the Judgement Seat of Christ? It is the Spirit of Antichrist which seeks to take the place of Christ and "ye know not what spirit ye are of" when you do so. Please stop it.
 

ATP

New Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,264
49
0
U.S.A.
Phoneman777 said:
Show me one verse which teaches in no uncertain terms that we cannot lose salvation.
1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
 

ATP

New Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,264
49
0
U.S.A.
The Barrd said:
I've not seen twisting like this since my last high school dance....
And I don't even want to think about how long ago that was.

But this is how false doctrines are made...
Prove me wrong by using scripture. Heb 10:26-33 NIV.
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
ATP said:
Prove me wrong by using scripture. Heb 10:26-33 NIV.
You have been preaching OSAS. Jesus did not teach it. OSAS is false gospel.

And verses you have been quoting do not teach OSAS.
 

ATP

New Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,264
49
0
U.S.A.
Joyful said:
You have been preaching OSAS. Jesus did not teach it. OSAS is false gospel.

And verses you have been quoting do not teach OSAS.
Break down Heb 10:26-33 NIV for me. Teach me something.
 

zeke25

New Member
May 18, 2014
513
15
0
78
Western USA
The Barrd said:
You don't remember telling me all about your special "function"?
I seem to recall you telling me how the word "church" wasn't in the Bible (doh), and how that wouldn't "resonate" with me. Also, there is no such thing as "afternoon" nor does a Jewish day begin at sundown...these are some of the misconceptions it is your "function" to correct. But no one appreciates you.
I remember asking you how long it would be before you started attacking me, since I didn't agree with you either. Let's see...two days? Gosh, it seems like I've known you so much longer...
And now you say I'm lying about you. Show me where I have lied...oh, but you're "through with me". Just as well....you and I both know that you cannot show any such thing.
I will pray for you. Perhaps God will help you sort yourself out.
Meantime, I'm counting on you to keep your promise...you're through with me. No more insulting posts...that'll be nice, thank you...
The Barrd,

From post 1156, page 52.

Barrd said: “You don't remember telling me all about your special “function”?"

zeke response: What are earth are you talking about? Bearing false witness and lies come in blatant statements that are not true. They also come from insinuations that are made that twist or add words or delete words from that which was previously said, thereby, altering the meaning of that which is being referred to.

So, this is count 1 of bearing false witness in your smear campaign against me.





Barrd: “I seem to recall you telling me how the word "church" wasn't in the Bible (doh), and how that wouldn't "resonate" with me.”

Zeke25: What’s your point? What does doh mean? If you were interested in what the Bible really teaches rather than only your emotions, then you could express an interest in knowing the truth about the doctrine of church.




Barrd: “Also, there is no such thing as "afternoon" nor does a Jewish day begin at sundown...these are some of the misconceptions it is your "function" to correct.”

Zeke: Another false witness by insinuation. Where did I say my “function” was to correct these things? And to whom was I to address this correction? I was giving you an invitation to dig deeper into the Bible.

Count 2 of your bearing false witness.



Barrd: “But no one appreciates you.”

zeke: A blatant lie concocted from only your mind and what you think another is thinking. You are not a mind reader, you are a liar. Where did I express concern that no one appreciates me? I have made statements from time to time to the contrary on this forum and probably on this very thread. I don’t care that I am not appreciated, I am not a man pleaser, nor do I attempt to deceive people, which one must frequently do in order to please men.

The count is now 2 false witnesses, plus 1 lie.





Barrd: “I remember asking you how long it would be before you started attacking me, since I didn't agree with you either”

zeke: Lie #2. Where did I attack you because you didn’t agree with me? Do I attack false doctrine, you bet. Do I rebuke in accordance with the Word of God, you bet. Do I care if you agree with me, not on your life. Why would I care about that? I want you to come into agreement with the Word of God, not the gospel of man. If you teach, preach, or come into agreement with heresy then you can expect push back. You do not get a pass when promoting heresy just because you think you’re a nice person.

The count is now 2 false witnesses, plus 2 lies.





Barrd: “And now you say I'm lying about you. Show me where I have lied”

zeke: I just did.






Barrd: “you and I both know that you cannot show any such thing.”

zeke: Should we add this to your account?



Barrd: “I will pray for you. Perhaps God will help you sort yourself out.”

zeke: Best save your prayers for yourself. But this is false witness #3 by insinuation. If in your opinion I need sorting out, then show me a Scripture that supports that. Otherwise, your statement is false.

False witnesses 3, lies 2.




Barrd: “I'm counting on you to keep your promise...you're through with me.”

zeke: Hmmm, lie #3. Where did I promise? If I feel I have unfinished business, this is a forum setting, I can address that business. Your insinuation does not bind me to a promise you made up out of thin air. I expressed an intention, a feeling, a probable course of action, even a warning to you, but a promise it was not.

False witnesses 3, lies 3.





Barrd: “No more insulting posts”

zeke: Lie #4. Where are the insults? Is it an insult in your mind if someone points out the truth?

False witnesses 3, lies 4.



From post 1517, page 51.

Barrd: “Then you put yourself on the same level as Jesus Christ”

zeke: Blatant lie 5.



False witnesses 3, lies 5.



Barrd: “YOU ARE NOT GOD.
So, stop trying to put yourself in His place.”

zeke: You have an incredible inability to understand what has been plainly written to you. This is lie #6 and #7. I’ve never made the claim to be God. I have never tried to substitute myself for Him. That’s the Pope’s gig, not mine.


False witnesses 3, lies 7.



Barrd: “who think you have some God-given right to be nasty to people.”

zeke: You’re mind reading again, and you are a miserable failure at it. Take up another hobby. Unless you can come up with a Scripture to support your “nasty” claim, this is false witness (by mind reading) #4.


False witnesses 4, lies 7.




Barrd: “At least ATP is sincere in his belief”

zeke: By implication and comparison, in your opinion I am not sincere. That doesn’t make it true. I suppose you think I’m here to blow my own horn. How sad. But you haven’t supported your contention. It is a figment of your imagination. I do wish you would change this immature junior high mentality. This is why it is uncomfortable to discuss anything with you. You bring the discussion down to the diaper section and spew your confused opinions and fantasies all over the thread. I prefer to discuss doctrine. That separates truth from fantasies. I'll give you a pass on this one. The count remains unchanged.





Barrd: “You, sir, are rude, crude, and not too shrewd”

zeke: Once again, another false witness. Where is your Scripture to support this? You don’t have one. This is not about your erroneous perceptions of another’s characteristics. This thread is about the heresy of current day sabbath keeping, by any one for any reason. Please confine your comments to that. There’s really at least 2 more lies here, but I weary of the count, and I haven’t even finished going through all your posts.

Besides, I’ve given enough in answer your post. Because, there is plenty more to go.


zeke25
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ATP said:
1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Yes, it is "kept in heaven for us, who through faith are shielded" from death, but...

...is that the dead faith of OSAS or the living faith of those who keep the Ten Commandments?

My brother, I appreciate your sincerity, but I asked for a verse that proves OSAS, so please try again...
 

ATP

New Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,264
49
0
U.S.A.
Phoneman777 said:
Yes, it is "kept in heaven for us, who through faith are shielded" from death, but...

...is that the dead faith of OSAS or the living faith of those who keep the Ten Commandments?

Please try again...
I was hoping you would figure it out, but I see you haven't.

Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ATP said:
I was hoping you would figure it out, but I see you haven't.

Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
What I have figured out is that by excluding the context of Ephesians 2:10 KJV, you have rendered Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV a pretext and a pretext is a poor foundation for which to base OSAS.

The "faith" of Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV is the same "faith" of 1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV: "living faith" not dead faith.

Again, OSAS is a deception which convinces commandment breakers that through their dead faith (James 2:17 KJV) they may obtain the gift of eternal life which can be obtained only by living faith.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
74
...following a Jewish carpenter...
ATP said:
Prove me wrong by using scripture. Heb 10:26-33 NIV.
You have already twisted that passage all out of proportion. I can't see how you could possibly get OSAS out of that passage, but somehow, you managed to do it. You take the prize for some of the finest dance steps I've ever seen.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

For if we sin willfully....seems pretty straightforward to me. If we deliberately do something we know to be a sin...like steal, or commit adultery, or lie about someone, or some such thing...if we do it knowing good and well that it is a sin, Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

after that we have received the knowledge of the truth...also seems pretty straightforward. This isn't the same thing as the sins we committed BEFORE we knew Jesus...we repented of those, and He sent His spirit to dwell within us, but now we choose to deliberately sin, knowing exactly what we are doing.

there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. You had accepted His sacrifice, and you were saved...but you willfully sinned, even though you had received the knowledge of the truth.

there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. IOW, you blew it, bub. Your only recourse now is to get down on your knees and beg His forgiveness...and then, with His help, to turn away from that sin. But remember, He knows your heart. If you think you can do this over and over again, thinking that, you'll just repent and everything will be okay...well, I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.

ATP, this verse is the exact opposite of "once saved always saved". I don't see how it could be any clearer.
But, as I said, you have already twisted this verse beyond all recognition...so I'm pretty sure you will tell me all about how wrong I am and explain patiently how this verse could not possibly mean what it is obviously saying...

Even though the rest of this passage is in the very same vein, and in spite of several other passages that describe such behavior as a dog returning to his vomit (eww), or a sow that had been washed back to her wallowing in the mud.
Now, I don't know about you, but I would rather that the Lord not see me as a dog licking up vomit (double eww!) or a dirty pig wallowing in filth.
 

ATP

New Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,264
49
0
U.S.A.
Phoneman777 said:
Again, OSAS is a deception which convinces commandment breakers that through their dead faith (James 2:17 KJV) they may obtain the gift of eternal life which can be obtained only by living faith.
Well, let's go to something more simple.

2 Cor 1:10 NIV He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us,

2 Cor 3:12 NIV Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.
 

ATP

New Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,264
49
0
U.S.A.
The Barrd said:
You have already twisted that passage all out of proportion. I can't see how you could possibly get OSAS out of that passage, but somehow, you managed to do it. You take the prize for some of the finest dance steps I've ever seen.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

For if we sin willfully....seems pretty straightforward to me. If we deliberately do something we know to be a sin...like steal, or commit adultery, or lie about someone, or some such thing...if we do it knowing good and well that it is a sin, Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

after that we have received the knowledge of the truth...also seems pretty straightforward. This isn't the same thing as the sins we committed BEFORE we knew Jesus...we repented of those, and He sent His spirit to dwell within us, but now we choose to deliberately sin, knowing exactly what we are doing.

there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. You had accepted His sacrifice, and you were saved...but you willfully sinned, even though you had received the knowledge of the truth.

there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. IOW, you blew it, bub. Your only recourse now is to get down on your knees and beg His forgiveness...and then, with His help, to turn away from that sin. But remember, He knows your heart. If you think you can do this over and over again, thinking that, you'll just repent and everything will be okay...well, I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.

ATP, this verse is the exact opposite of "once saved always saved". I don't see how it could be any clearer.
But, as I said, you have already twisted this verse beyond all recognition...so I'm pretty sure you will tell me all about how wrong I am and explain patiently how this verse could not possibly mean what it is obviously saying...

Even though the rest of this passage is in the very same vein, and in spite of several other passages that describe such behavior as a dog returning to his vomit (eww), or a sow that had been washed back to her wallowing in the mud.
Now, I don't know about you, but I would rather that the Lord not see me as a dog licking up vomit (double eww!) or a dirty pig wallowing in filth.
I've posted enough scriptures that are in contradiction in Heb 10:26-33 NIV. God is not contradictory. He is either one or the other.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
74
...following a Jewish carpenter...
ATP said:
I've posted enough scriptures that are in contradiction in Heb 10:26-33 NIV. God is not contradictory. He is either one or the other.
ATP, do I have to tell even you that the Bible does not contradict itself?
You have taken those scriptures out of context, thinking that they proved something that you want desperately to believe...but they don't.
 

ATP

New Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,264
49
0
U.S.A.
The Barrd said:
ATP, do I have to tell even you that the Bible does not contradict itself?
You have taken those scriptures out of context, thinking that they proved something that you want desperately to believe...but they don't.
The words "believe" and "eternal life" are in the same sentence, passage for that matter. Explain that one Barrd.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
8,124
2,765
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ATP said:
Well, let's go to something more simple.

2 Cor 1:10 NIV He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us,

2 Cor 3:12 NIV Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.
Brother ATP, you seem to be avoiding my "dead faith" versus "living faith" point. Do you see the distinction and that the "faith" versus you point to for support for OSAS are "living faith" versus?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.