Salvation depends on

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zadzial

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For those Christians who say that once saved a person can still become unsaved, I suggest that you consider this verse from Ephesians 1:13-14."And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession - to the praise of his glory."When you accept Jesus as your personal Saviour you receive the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of you. The Spirit guarantees our inheritance, in other words our salvation. Now if after you were saved you were to fall away and become "unsaved" it would mean that you no longer had the Holy Spirit. As Waynemlj has pointed out Romans 8 talks a lot about the role of the Spirit and also about what happens to those God has called, i.e. those who have been saved. Romans 8:29 says "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son". One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to make us more Christ-like. Further, in Philippians 1:6 Paul writes "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Jesus Christ." God will continue to work in us until we are just like Christ. If, once we received the Holy Spirit were able to later forfeit that gift, then the work of the Holy Spirit (making us more Christ-like) would have failed. But God's work does not fail!It is God who initiates salvation, who contiunes it and who will one day bring it to its consummation (when Christ comes again). Those who were "saved" and later fall away were not saved in the first place.
 

His By Grace

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Amen, zadzial! I'm so glad someone understands that. I was beginning to feel like the Lone Ranger! Oh, well. That's okay. I'd rather stand for what I really believe than cave into pressure by others just to say something I don't believe to be true. I haven't seen a good argument yet, except for the Revelation 3:5, which was addressed to the church at Sardis. So...I still believe in eternal security.
 

forgivenWretch

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zadzial
AMEN! PRAISE GOD!
 

forgivenWretch

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Amen, zadzial! I'm so glad someone understands that. I was beginning to feel like the Lone Ranger! Oh, well. That's okay. I'd rather stand for what I really believe than cave into pressure by others just to say something I don't believe to be true. I haven't seen a good argument yet, except for the Revelation 3:5, which was addressed to the church at Sardis. So...I still believe in eternal security.
His, you know that I am on your side, but unfortunately I am not blessed with the flow of speech that you nor zadzial. I just received a warning on another thread for professing my views. It is so saddening that as Christians so many put stipulations on God's Word and refuse to take it as it is. What bothers me most is how the try to use the bible against itself.Uncertainty must be so heart wrenching!
 

forgivenWretch

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Just a really simple reminder to everyone...PLEASE....GOD'S Word DOES NOT contradict itself! So shall we cease trying to force it to do so? There are NO BUTS!
 

His By Grace

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Forgiven, we just need to remember to be Salt and Light. It's okay if we don't have those that agree with us. You are valuable to the Kingdom of God. Use your words wisely. Remember that sometimes we do better to stop, think, then write. I have to do that sometimes. Think about Colossians 3 when dealing with your brothers and sisters-speaking to one another in a positive way, as much as possible.
smile.gif
 

Christina

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(zadzial;42258)
For those Christians who say that once saved a person can still become unsaved, I suggest that you consider this verse from Ephesians 1:13-14."And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession - to the praise of his glory."When you accept Jesus as your personal Saviour you receive the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of you. The Spirit guarantees our inheritance, in other words our salvation. Now if after you were saved you were to fall away and become "unsaved" it would mean that you no longer had the Holy Spirit. As Waynemlj has pointed out Romans 8 talks a lot about the role of the Spirit and also about what happens to those God has called, i.e. those who have been saved. Romans 8:29 says "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son". One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to make us more Christ-like. Further, in Philippians 1:6 Paul writes "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Jesus Christ." God will continue to work in us until we are just like Christ. If, once we received the Holy Spirit were able to later forfeit that gift, then the work of the Holy Spirit (making us more Christ-like) would have failed. But God's work does not fail!It is God who initiates salvation, who contiunes it and who will one day bring it to its consummation (when Christ comes again). Those who were "saved" and later fall away were not saved in the first place.
God has predestined some of his Elect only He has only condemned one Satan the rest have been given free will to believe OSAS or predestination of all to heaven or Hell is to make a mockery of Gods gift of free will you can take verse out of Context to show us the promise of our Lord to us but when taken into context with the contradictory statements the context of the message becomes clear your single verse's mean nothing in context of the whole of his Word unless you believe that Gods Word is full of contradictions therefore it can not be perfect. You can not ignore the contradicting verse to make a doctrine it must be taken in whole so that there are no contradictions.
 

Christina

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You only have the promise of salvation through faith if you lose or betray that faith it is you who has broken it not God and free will allows for anyone to break this promise this is the Word of God Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faithFor we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
 

Elf

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Mar 23, 2008
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God has predestined some of his Elect only He has only condemned one Satan the rest have been given free will to believe OSAS or predestination of all to heaven or Hell is to make a mockery of Gods gift of free will you can take verse out of Context to show us the promise of our Lord to us but when taken into context with the contradictory statements the context of the message becomes clear your single verse's mean nothing in context of the whole of his Word unless you believe that Gods Word is full of contradictions therefore it can not be perfect. You can not ignore the contradicting verse to make a doctrine it must be taken in whole so that there are no contradictions.
I see no scripture to back up your words. Not that I disagree or agree, but can you back up theses words with scripture?
 

Elf

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God has predestined some of his Elect only He has only condemned one Satan the rest have been given free will to believe OSAS or predestination of all to heaven or Hell is to make a mockery of Gods gift of free will you can take verse out of Context to show us the promise of our Lord to us but when taken into context with the contradictory statements the context of the message becomes clear your single verse's mean nothing in context of the whole of his Word unless you believe that Gods Word is full of contradictions therefore it can not be perfect. You can not ignore the contradicting verse to make a doctrine it must be taken in whole so that there are no contradictions.
(zadzial;42258)
For those Christians who say that once saved a person can still become unsaved, I suggest that you consider this verse from Ephesians 1:13-14."And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession - to the praise of his glory."When you accept Jesus as your personal Saviour you receive the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of you. The Spirit guarantees our inheritance, in other words our salvation. Now if after you were saved you were to fall away and become "unsaved" it would mean that you no longer had the Holy Spirit. As Waynemlj has pointed out Romans 8 talks a lot about the role of the Spirit and also about what happens to those God has called, i.e. those who have been saved. Romans 8:29 says "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son". One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to make us more Christ-like. Further, in Philippians 1:6 Paul writes "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Jesus Christ." God will continue to work in us until we are just like Christ. If, once we received the Holy Spirit were able to later forfeit that gift, then the work of the Holy Spirit (making us more Christ-like) would have failed. But God's work does not fail!It is God who initiates salvation, who contiunes it and who will one day bring it to its consummation (when Christ comes again). Those who were "saved" and later fall away were not saved in the first place.
Nice job, and backed by scripture!
 

Christina

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and now lets interpt this scriptureEphesians 1:13 "In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,"The "ye" in this verse, are those who heard God's word and believed. They are not the predestined ones. When they believed, God sealed each of them with His Holy Spirit "of promise". That promise is the inheritance of eternal life. There is no difference between the inheritance of the predestined soul, and the soul that heard the Gospel of Christ, then believed and repented. However, there is a difference in the positions that the elect will hold in the Millennium temple. Ezekiel 44 describes the difference in the inheritance; it is in the area of ownership with respects to land, and the location to the throne of Jesus Christ. The "Zadok" simply will not be given land, because they do not need it. They will all be in the priestly services of our Lord Jesus Christ.Ephesians 1:14 "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.""The earnest" is a pledge from God to us. "Our inheritance" is the gift from God to you and I, the Christians, of the "new nature" [our new spirit], and this is a pledge also from God for future gifts in the same kind. It is a total commitment which can not be broken,by God thus making this inheritance different from any other pledge ordinarily given. The pledge in earnest is the same as the term "sealing". It is a legal term. God is creating His contract with us, the Christian, and God will fulfill that pledge, or covenant. The sealing of God's covenant is by giving to us His Spirit to dwell within us, and those other gifts He may also give to us. Our "earnest money", so to speak, is to fulfill our part of the agreement, and our part is to repent and believe in His Son, Jesus Christ; who is the actual one who paid the price to fulfill God's contract between Him and us. And if we break our part of the ageement their is no promise/contract These verse simply explain our inhertance the promise to us if we keep our side of the contract they have nothing to do with OSASNo one ever said God didnt make the believer a promise but when you make a contract you also have an obligation to take part if you do not the contract seal(legal document) is broken as scripture saysMat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Who are these believers they are false teachers/preachers men who follow false doctrines of men those who claim to know Christ and are followers and teachers of falsehoods He will claim he doesnt know them just as they never knew himYou can not say well they were never saved you can not know what they think they believe a a lie is truth how many today do this same thing claim to God but are Luke warm Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. again believers who didnt really care to get to know their father Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.you dont keep the faith you dont receive the promise simple as that no OSAS
 

Keith

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I am one that believes firmly one CAN lose his/her salvation.Becoming saved and getting baptized in my opinion does not mean one can from that point on live his/her life any way they wish and still be guaranteed to enter the kingdom.That is just my opinion.
 

Jackie D

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I am one that believes firmly one CAN lose his/her salvation.Becoming saved and getting baptized in my opinion does not mean one can from that point on live his/her life any way they wish and still be guaranteed to enter the kingdom.That is just my opinion.
I'm not in dispute with you Keith, but I have to wonder....why is it that people assume that because there are folks who believe they cannot loose salvation that those people think that they can live life any way they wish and still be guaranteed to enter the kingdom? It doesn't make sense...I have seen this topic be beat to death now for 2 years and as far as I can see, OSAS believers are NOT saying they can live as they wish.
 

Keith

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Point well taken.I believe it is assumed, or why else believe you can't lose it no matter what? If you are saying, you believe you can't lose your salvation, BUT you can't live your life however you wish, you are contradicting yourself.That is just the way it looks to me.God Bless
 

Jackie D

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Point well taken.I believe it is assumed, or why else believe you can't lose it no matter what? If you are saying, you believe you can't lose your salvation, BUT you can't live your life however you wish, you are contradicting yourself.That is just the way it looks to me.God Bless
I does seem to be contradictory, but let's look at it like this..The majority of children know that even when they do disobey their parents that their parents will love them and keep them regardless...children don't live by the rules all the time. Why? Well, because they are people and they make mistakes. They do however fear their parents disappointment and wish not to feel their wrath upon them when they have done something wrong, but that love never leaves them. They for the most part are secure in knowing that no matter what, their parents will always be their parents. AND it would take an awful lot, IF it would take anything at all, for their parents to disown them and cut them off for the things they might do. The love never stops...(please everyone look at this as if all families are like this)Paul is convinced that there is absolutely nothing on or under the earth that can separate us from the LOVE of GOD...but Paul also seemingly contradicts himself by saying that we should not take that for granted either for in our complacency is where we could and possibly would fall away, for complacency would most likely lead us into sin. But it still comes down to the fact that nothing we can do will sever the love God has for us...for His love is infinite. This does not necessarily equal security, just that God's love does not die. AND we must never forget that in God's ultimate plan even the natural branch that has been cut off for a time WILL be grafted back on.Now there are those who believe they can lose their salvation. But it comes down to the same fears and realities of the above examples. Yet is looked at from a different perspective. As we know full well that Paul states if even the natural branches were cut off then who are we that are grafted in to think that we would not be cut off, therefore do not be haughty for our placement with God is of His choosing and was not accomplished by anything we did in and of ourselves. The healthy fear and respect of this knowledge is looked at no differently than those who believe they cannot lose their salvation. IMHO
 

Keith

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The children may disobey and mess up every once in awhile, as you said. But they also always come back to their parents.I do not believe a person can get saved into Christ, and live rotten the rest of their life and enter the kingdom. I do believe one can get saved then do some bad things and repent and be fine.I am referring to the people who never go back to God after becoming a Christian.Maybe you and I are talking about 2 different things. I am not at all saying we can't make any mistakes or we will miss out on Heaven. I am saying we can't turn our back on God completely and still expect Heaven because we were saved one time long ago.
 

Jackie D

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I am referring to the people who never go back to God after becoming a Christian.
these you speak of are described in Matthew 13. I do not disagree with this. The children do return...and the parent is always there waiting for them to return willing to forgive and forget all sin...I don't refute that there are those who fall away or who had seed sown on infertile or rocky soil and that the root does not take.My point is that we must bring the whole of it together in the complete doctrine of salvation and look closely at what appears to be contradiction when it really isn't. That's my point altogether. I am not in the camp of OSAS nor am I in the camp that opposes it. I am in the camp of the complete doctrine, that neither refutes or disputes either side. This is a topic that should hold middle ground and like mindedness to all aspects of it. Salvation is an issue of some understandings that are hard for the mind to wrap itself around...but it has a completeness that is being ignored when we decide we are going to stand on one side or the other of it.
 

Elf

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I agree. Only the 72 inspired books of the Bible are true scripture.
72? Someone told me there were only 66 or something like that. How many are there?
 

Elf

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Catholic Crusader;40429]I agree. Only the 72 inspired books of the Bible are true scripture.[/QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE=waynemlj;41486]Hi Shan Missions said:
Interesting!
They saw religion as external. Jesus came to destroy that notion and to teach that the important truth is internal. Matthew 5:27-28, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."People may be able to fool other people by putting on a good show outwardly, but they don't fool God (who sees their hearts) for one minute!waynemlj
I looked up these scriptures you posted, they make a lot of sense to me.
 
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