"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Eternally Grateful]

I was talking about the gnostics.

They would be considered part of the licentious group.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG- is this your quote...?

yes I did

 

[Taken]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21
These are born again believers

Been over this before....but go ahead...
Explain what you think this quote means.

 

[Taken]

EG- is this your quote...?

Thank you. The post was confusing, of who it was that said that.

 

[Cooper]

Been over this before....but go ahead...
Explain what you think this quote means.

Obviously you do not accept it, and that tells me a lot. If I recognise an unbelieving spirit, I know God will.

 

[Taken]

Obviously you do not accept it, and that tells me a lot. If I recognise an unbelieving spirit, I know God will.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21

WHY do you believe this applies to the Converted/BORN AGAIN ?

 

[Cooper]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21

WHY do you believe this applies to the Converted/BORN AGAIN ?

That is who it is talking to. Born again Christians.

 

[Taken]

Cooper..

That is who it is talking to. Born again Christians.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21


How did YOU conclude that applies to a CONVERTED Born Again Person?

 

[GEN2REV]

The problem is this G...
It might seem popular today when listening to these preachers/teachers....
BUT
The idea of OSAS did not appear in church teachings UNTIL the 1500s.

The early theologians did NOT speak of OSAS....
The Apostles did not believe this and those the Apostles taught did not believe this.


We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise
the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.
Barnabas 70-130AD

Let us then practice righteousness so that we may be saved unto the end.
Clement II 150AD

The apostates and traitors of the church have blasphemed the Lord in their sins. Moreover, they have been ashamed of the name of the Lord by which they were called. These persons, therefore, at the end were lost unto God.
Hermas 150AD

There are pages full of the above type statements.
OSAS is NOT mainline Christianity.
It is a modern invention.

You didn't catch that I was talking about 'right now, today.' MODERN Mainstream churches and TV and Radio, as well as Youtube ALL widely teach OSAS. TODAY.

I am VERY familiar with church, as well as Biblical, history. My contention is that OSAS is a popular trendy doctrine for MODERN MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY.

Renniks recognized this distinction in my claim and responded accordingly, agreeing that it IS popular today, but was not even around until centuries ago. That was not my argument.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, the OVERFLOW of the Spirit had not yet been given to the people of God. That was reserved for people in special offices of service (i.e. Moses, Oholiab, King Saul). And so the Spirit had indeed been given to various people prior to the ascension, even in power, just not in the way of the Day of Pentecost when it was given in power and overflow to all of God's people openly and freely.

that would ver us off topic, and not specifically about salvation...technically.

Technically, the spirit of God only came "upon", "moved" or "filled" people of old...even including some of the enemy. While being reborn of the spirit of God did not come until Jesus returned to the Father and was glorified whereby sending the Holy Spirit for salvation as never before. In salvation God (the Father and the Son) come "into" the person, and the two become One. That never happened before Christ was glorified.

Unless... Unless we are to discuss it in the context of all that occurred before the foundation of the world. In which, all things were in the twinkling of an eye. However, scripture still defines it as "those who are first" vs. "those who are last."

 

[Renniks]

I have not seen Him. What does He look like?

He looks like his Father. In fact, he's the perfect image of his Father.

 

[Renniks]

Sure we can grasp He is invisible, human eyes can not see.
I gave you a parallel example, in the MOON.
Test it for yourself. The MOON hangs in the sky, every night.
You can ONLY SEE parts of it, the fullness of it, WHEN LIGHT from the SUN shines UPON the MOON.
The MOON does not become the SUN.
The MOON has no light of its own.
The MOON appearing lighted, IS ONLY by the LIGHT of the SUN.

THAT ^ is the very basic method in which God Himself, who Can NOT be seen, has taught mankind from the beginning. PARALLELS, of WHAT God is LIKE, to examples of WHAT men “CAN SEE”.

God established the RELATIONSHIPS, For mankind. Father, head, Mother next, Children, Sons, Siblings, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins, etc.

Why do men CALL the UNSEEN God in Heaven.......FATHER?
WHO said so? And WHY? Do you know?

1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4:6 - One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matthew 23:9 - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Psalms 68:5 - A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

Ephesians 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Malachi 2:10 - Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

John 14:9-11 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (Read More...)

Luke 10:21-22 - In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. (Read More...)

Isaiah 64:8 - But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Isaiah 63:16 - Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 - Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; (Read More...)

James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:10 - Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

[ScottA]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21
These are born again believers

What you have presented here does not reconcile all scripture.

That is not salvation.

A "partaker" of a "taste" of the Holy Spirit, is not the same as hearing Christ knock and opening the door and having the Father and the Son "come into him".

The two have not become One.

 

[Taken]

He looks like his Father. In fact, he's the perfect image of his Father.

Really....? That is like saying...
Taken....what do you look like?
Renniks....my dad.

 

[Taken]

1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4:6 - One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matthew 23:9 - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Psalms 68:5 - A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

Ephesians 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Malachi 2:10 - Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

John 14:9-11 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (Read More...)

Luke 10:21-22 - In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. (Read More...)

Isaiah 64:8 - But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Isaiah 63:16 - Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 - Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; (Read More...)

James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:10 - Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

I have a Bible. Do you have a point you are trying to make?

 

[Renniks]

I have a Bible. Do you have a point you are trying to make?

You asked where God as Father comes from... remember?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We only sin against our own will, when we're being stupid. There's sins smartly done, and there's sins stupidly done.

False argument- we must give consent to all of our actions unless you are a zombie.

No, no, not at all. Jesus was just commanding her to go and do no hooking sin no more.

The rest of the sins were still cool for her.

Amazing.

Wow presume much? But if you think the adulteress never sinned again in her life- you are extremely naive. But then of course you think you have attained perfection in every though word and deed 24/7 in you rown life.

What does it matter, since we're all going to sin anyway? We're just all sinners, what does God expect us to do? It's not our fault we were born in sins. God's not an unjust God to judge us for sin we can't stop doing.

Juvenile answer from juvenile emotions. If you think that just because we are imperfect we should just go ahead and sin- you are either a fool or ignorant. And though I am sure that there are som ewho think that, if you think many who follow Scripture think that you are either a fool or ignorant. That is a lsoing argument for a losing position.

So, stop worrying about such meaningless questions and Ceeeeeelebrate that Grace, C'mon!

Yes I do celebrate grace, but not in teh twisted embittered way you accuse me of by implication.

What do we care about any Scripture suggesting otherwise?? After all, we're not expected to be doers of all the word anyway, right?

Do you not eat pork? do you not eat shellfish? do you not wear mixed fabrics or do you think it is okay to disobey those parts of the Word???

Once again, why bother? We got all the Scriptures we need to perfectly prove that we will sin again and again, and we will not be judged for it, because God cannot see it under the blood.

The last part is correct! God judged all men's sins when He punished Jesus in our place! That is the mystery of grace! But if instead of getting on your high horse of the sin of presumption and making your snide little ad-hominems , you bothered to ask me further you might learn something for a change instead of making such terribly false assumptions. But hey you have self declared yourself perfect in thought word and deed so you are incapable of making mistakes called sin in the bible.

 

[Renniks]

Really....? That is like saying...
Taken....what do you look like?
Renniks....my dad.

No it's not. Because you aren't exactly like your Father.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

That's different than just looking like Dad.

I and the Father are one.”

If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.

 

[Renniks]

What you have presented here does not reconcile all scripture.

That is not salvation.

A "partaker" of a "taste" of the Holy Spirit, is not the same as hearing Christ knock and opening the door and having the Father and the Son "come into him".

The two have not become One.

So you can see partake of God as a pagan? Where's that in scripture?

 

[Taken]

You asked where God as Father comes from... remember?

No.