"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[ScottA]

You are trying to confirm old school secured eternal salvation: those 'really' saved depart from all iniquity to live holy, righteously, and blamelessly in this present life. The saints in Christ Jesus live the life of Not I but Christ that liveth in me, which does not include going on still in sins and trespasses.

The doctrine is still in error by not rightly dividing the word of truth:

Just as Peter, having been "washed clean" by Christ, was embodied by Satan.

You are carnal minded in your doctrine. Peter had His feet literally washed, not His soul. Jesus prophesied of how any washing of His blood will be whole washing of His blood.

Neither Peter, nor anyone else on earth was born again and washed clean in the blood of the lamb before the cross and the resurrection.

What you say from that starting point therefore is false.

After we are born again of the spirit of God we can sin in the flesh without loosing our salvation-- Why? Because "we are alive and remain" in the world.

Interesting concept, but no cigar. Those being saved, cease being saved by going on still in their sins and trespasses, or by returning to their past sins and trespasses.

To say they were never saved is a personal judgment without Scripture.

The real error thinking of were saved, or already saved, as in salvation already obtained in this life, which is false. We are being saved by grace through faith, and we obtain eternal salvation by obeying Him unto the end, to attain to the resurrection of the dead.

At no other time in history, not even those times when most of the scriptures were written, have people died and lived on in the flesh.

Except the first Adam of course. As can now be the case of the brethren of the Second Adam, with even less excuse of course.

it is no longer you who lives, but God who lives...and He is forever. While you remain in the world...your old flesh is still subject to death and decay..and sin.

The mortal body continues as corrupt as ever, but the New Man destroys the law of sin and death by the law ofd the Spirit of Christ, and so sinful flesh no longer obeys the law of sin, even as sin no longer reigns over the mortal body.

You are trying to distance your washed soul from your sinful body, and so also from the sinful deeds of your body, resulting in no judgment for sins of the flesh upon your soul.

You are OSAS trying to at least teach not continuing in sins, and you would no doubt agree with 'if' we sin, and not 'when' we sin.

However, it is a lie to say we are no longer judged for our sins, if we commit them, not when:

For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear.

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been. The example of Peter was (as I said) only "like" what we who are born again experience. The difference is, his example, being on the cusp of salvation by being born again of the spirit of God, was only a foreshadowing when Jesus called him Satan. Yes, even Peter was not, nor could not be saved by being born again of the spirit of God until Jesus went to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit.

Thus (thank you) Paul makes the better example. Having received the Holy Spirit, Paul claimed both not to have attained the sinless perfection of the spirit of God, but also as being among those having passed from death to life and being alive and remaining in the world, a new creation, while still doing what he did not want to do, etc..

Therefore, knowing that all of this is a part of a completely new existence that had never occurred, nor was even possible before, he counseled to rightly divide the word of truth as two separate narratives, one truth pertaining to those who would die in the flesh before receiving the Holy Spirit, and another truth pertaining only to those who had received the Holy Spirit and yet were alive and remained in the flesh. Unlike it is taught in anything Christendom, Paul was the only apostle to be sent by Jesus with the knowledge that the word of truth must be [rightly] divided. And it is still not being divided according to his instructions...which were vague at best, because Paul too was just experiencing it. Even so, it is exactly what Jesus foretold, not as peace, but a sword.

And this is why brothers argue over the scriptures as if any of it is wrong. But it is not wrong-- it is people who are wrong--wrong because the two different narratives, one being for the dead in Christ and the other being for the living in Christ, is not divided..as it should be.

 

[Taken]

Yes that's why he sent his son so we could see him as he is.

I have not seen Him. What does He look like?

 

[ScottA]

You are referring to the times when the gospel was first being preached. Therefore it is right that Paul (and Jesus, and the apostles) continue a message of conversion from unbelief to full belief.

So, those three thousand in Acts 2 didn't get the full belief? Good thing they didn't hear that, else they may have gotten disappointed about their unfull belief.

As the man said, there is no 'superficial' nor 'full' belief spoken of Scripture. Only them that believe, and them that believe not. Enough of the gospel was preached to them to be saved and to live blamelessly to the end.

take away the great amount of the gospel that says it is finished.

Jesus finished His work to save us. We do not finish the race until it is finished:

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy.

Those who are actually born again of the spirit of God and are a new creation and live like it unto the end of the their course shall obtain eternal salvation.

I could likewise ask you: Were there only three thousand living at the time that heard the gospel?

No, but you have picked out only those to argue truth against truth. But what I have stated was indeed also true of a thousand times a thousand...whom you left out. For which I may not continue to give respect to anything more you have to say.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

when Jesus called him Satan.

Wasn't he rather addressing satan working in Peter, not Peter himself?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes, even Peter was not, nor could not be saved by being born again of the spirit of God until Jesus went to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit has always been active and available throughout the history of God's people. Even the apostles received the Spirit before Christ's ascension (John 20:22). But not in the measure and power and overflow sent on the Day of Pentecost for ALL of God's people from the least to the greatest. That is what changed. For up to that point that overflow of power was mainly reserved for kings and priests and various individuals called to special offices of service. Now we're all in the ministry in that sense.

 

[ScottA]

We need to remember that the bulk of what Jesus preached was to Israel, who are "the dead in Christ", of whom Jesus was "the Last."

Jesus was the last of the dead in Christ?

The dead in Christ are all them that have and will die in the Lord before the first resurrection of the church:

Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Them that physically die while obeying Christ to the end.

If I am "in Christ" it is finished. To say it is not, is to say that Christ is not finished-- which you just said He was.

Jesus' work on the cross is finished. His work in us in not, while we remain yet alive in this world.

The matter of "enduring to the end", is not what you make of it-- It is not the end of the flesh living in the world. "We who are alive and remain" in the world, have already come to "the End."

Scripture was speaking of the resurrection, which will occur with some saints remaining alive on earth.

Your play on words is just sophistry to removing any enduring necessary in this life to obtain eternal salvation in the end.

You think you've found a cute little Christian Valhalla of no more judgement for 'saved' souls for sins committed in the body.

those captives whom Christ came to set free-- are not free. But, that whole line of thinking is only confusion, for we are free indeed.

Those who are free indeed of their sins and trespasses are free indeed of condemnation for sins and trespasses.

Those who are not free indeed of their sins and trespasses are not free at all of condemnation of sins and trespasses.

You have made multiple errors. But if you want to make a point or have a reasonable discussion, you will need to use the "Quote" function rather than mixing would-be quotes into your own text in bold. Here, I'll show you:

The dead in Christ are all them that have and will die in the Lord before the first resurrection of the church:

Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Them that physically die while obeying Christ to the end.

You error, the first resurrection began with Christ (the First Fruits)...2000 years ago.

 

[ScottA]

Wasn't he rather addressing satan working in Peter, not Peter himself?

Yes.

Sorry, working on my phone and it's hard to spell it all out.

 

[ScottA]

The Spirit has always been active and available throughout the history of God's people. Even the apostles received the Spirit before Christ's ascension (John 20:22). But not in the measure and power and overflow sent on the Day of Pentecost for ALL of God's people from the least to the greatest. That is what changed. For up to that point that overflow of power was mainly reserved for kings and priests and various individuals called to special offices of service. Now we're all in the ministry in that sense.

John 7:39

 

[Ferris Bueller]

John 7:39

Yes, the OVERFLOW of the Spirit had not yet been given to the people of God. That was reserved for people in special offices of service (i.e. Moses, Oholiab, King Saul). And so the Spirit had indeed been given to various people prior to the ascension, even in power, just not in the way of the Day of Pentecost when it was given in power and overflow to all of God's people openly and freely.

 

[Taken]

Yes and no. No one fully understands the infinite. But God isn't hiding himself.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation...
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together...


Of course we can not fully grasp this. But we know enough.

Sure we can grasp He is invisible, human eyes can not see.
I gave you a parallel example, in the MOON.
Test it for yourself. The MOON hangs in the sky, every night.
You can ONLY SEE parts of it, the fullness of it, WHEN LIGHT from the SUN shines UPON the MOON.
The MOON does not become the SUN.
The MOON has no light of its own.
The MOON appearing lighted, IS ONLY by the LIGHT of the SUN.

THAT ^ is the very basic method in which God Himself, who Can NOT be seen, has taught mankind from the beginning. PARALLELS, of WHAT God is LIKE, to examples of WHAT men “CAN SEE”.

God established the RELATIONSHIPS, For mankind. Father, head, Mother next, Children, Sons, Siblings, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins, etc.

Why do men CALL the UNSEEN God in Heaven.......FATHER?
WHO said so? And WHY? Do you know?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

It is truly amazing to see how OSAS dumbs down and belittles the sinfulness.

Not that repentance is needed for salvation anyway. Though it is good to repent, just not necessary to repent.

wow!! It gets worse and worse.
Repentance is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation. Ok, clearly you dont get how this whole salvation thing works.
1. Repentance is a gift from God. This is why not everyone can repent ie. Esau and judas.
2. Repentance is not a one time event.
3. Proof that repentance is genuine is the continuing repentance of the believer.
4. The repentance of say a 5 yr christian will not be the same as the repentance of a 40 yr christian.
5. Repentance follows along OSAS.
6. Repentance is not the same as confessing your sins. Confessing them is part of it though.
7. Repentance is a turning from sin.
8. Repentance and faith go hand in hand. You cant have one without the other.

now you have been told about repentance. But your lack of understanding of repentance explains why you dont understand OSAS.

 

[Taken]

True. The one thing OSAS does not have is fear of the Lord. They do not fear His wrath ...

You are quite confidant in deciding what another Believes and then Lambasting what you say for an other. <—— called Gaslighting!

OSAS believers are NOT in FEAR of God...
Secularly, which means AFRAID....(as you describe, what it means to you)

OSAS believers ARE in FEAR if God...
Spiritually, which means HIGHEST REVERENCE Unto God Himself.

OSAS....correct, are NOT AFRAID of God.
OSAS....DO FEAR God, in absolute HIGHEST REVERENCE.

Do you BELIEVE IN God, because YOU ARE AFRAID of God, AFRAID of the Consequence of NOT CONFESSING BELIEF?

OSAS...Believers DO NOT BELIEVE IN God, because they are AFRAID of the Consequence TO NOT Believe.
OSAS...Believers BELIEVE IN God, because they BELIEVE IN their Heart, God IS ABSOLUTE Supreme POWER and AUTHORITY over ALL Things.

OSAS....afraid of God? No.
OSAS....Fear God in Highest Reverence? Yes

Speaking for others, what is not true, is a fail on your part.

 

[Taken]

OSAS....They do not fear His wrath nor His judgment against sins

Correct. OSAS ~
Not AFRAID of Gods Wrath.
Not AFRAID of Gods Judgement against sins.

because

they delude themselves into thinking the blood of the Lamb only covers sins like a goat, so that they are n't washed cleanof unrighteousness, and yet are no more judged judged for going on still in them.

UTTERLY FALSE

Gaslighting again!
Not ONE OSAS believer has made such a ridiculous CLAIM.

....blood of the Lamb only covers sins like a goat...

Do you seriously NOT KNOW, you are revealing YOUR OWN THOUGHTS, and then ACTUALLY revealing YOUR OWN WEIRD THOUGHTS for all to READ, WHAT “YOU THINK”....?

It is OBVIOUS, your thoughts come from your own THINKING, and you are desperately TRYING to make “YOUR THINKING”, what an other thinks and believes.... Sorry ..... YOUR “THINKING” belongs TO YOU...Only YOU are accountable for YOUR THOUGHTS....

Since “YOU THINK”, and “YOU WRITE”...

....blood of the Lamb only covers sins like a goat...

UH...I do not agree with what YOU THINK and YOU WRITE and YOU BELIEVE.
....utter nonsense.

You want to ACTUALLY KNOW, what a OSAS, believer thinks and believes...
Open your ears and listen.

* Yes, I was SAVED ONCE by Accepting Gods Offering OF His Gift of Salvation.
* Yes, I TRUST God IS FAITHFUL, and His Gift KEEPS me forever WITH Him.
* No, I am not AFRAID of Gods Wrath;
because
His Wrath is NOT appointed to men WITH Him.
* No, I am not AFRAID of Gods Judgement against sins.
because
I Trust His Judgements ARE Right and Just.


Open your ears, and stop opening your mouth in Gaslighting.

 

[Taken]

Michiah-Imla said: ↑
The New Testament teaches how to be saved and how to stay saved.

Yep, agree.

It is certainly possible for a born again believer to be lost.

Utterly FALSE.

The New Testament warns the believers about the consequences of willingly returning to sin after receiving the gospel.

Yes. But what does ^ have to do with a BORN AGAIN man?

You’re position does not incline men to the fear of God. The fear of God is essential in keeping men from sinning.

Are you saying men MUST BE AFRAID OF GOD, to keep from sinning?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Leta try again, My quoting was messed up

EG,
You're obsessed with works.

Nope I am obsessed with the false teaching of grace plus works for salvation. Please get it right

I never mention works.
I do say that we must obey God.

Obeying God is works. Yet you say you never mention works.

I've posted some writings for you...It would be good to learn some church history
and know what the first Christians believed.
Who do you think knows more about what Jesus taught the Apostles?
Them or your pastor??

lol. Are you catholic?

Do you think I blindly follow my pastor? I do not blindly follow any person. I take what they say, and test by using the word of God. to test and see if what they say is true.

Why don’t you try that? The jews listened to their leaders and fathers. And look at what it did for them. they crucified their messiah

so I am looking and learning from history. I am making sure I do not make the same mistake people have been making for 4000 years now. (probably more)

I'm very sorry that you and others are not interested in early Christianity.

I am interested in the bible and what Jesus and the biblical writers (OT and NT) words which were inspired by God himself.

I am sorry you would rather listen to men, who have written outside the word of God and gave their opinion. which are not inspired

And, as always, we will have to agree to disagree.
Re OSAS that is. I think we agree on most other doctrine.

Sadly, NOSAS or OSAS is the gospel. You can get all the other doctrines correct. if you do not get the gospel correct.... Well as paul said, if anyone teaches any other gospel than what I have taught, let him be accursed.

 

[Taken]

Two questions taken:

WHY will some that cry LORD LORD not make it to heaven?
The answer is in Matthew 7:23 (last few words, you posted it above)

Bottom line...Because the TRUTH is not IN them.

The fact is:
During OT days, the TRUTH IN a man was LIMITED TO a man BELIEVING the Truth of God, via Hearing and Reading the Gods Word.

Men; “BY the mans POWER” ....WHO...Continued Hearing, Reading, Believing...continued Having the TRUTH “IN” him. <—- that has NOT Changed, to this DAY.

From OT days to NT days, to this DAY....MEN; “By the mans POWER”...
CAN KEEP Gods Truth “IN” him.........OR WHAT?.....OR NOT!

And WHAT “IF” a man begins BELIEVING, other Truths?
And WHAT “IF” the “other Truths” are Opposite of Gods TRUTH?
Does that man “STILL” have...by his Power, Gods TRUTH “IN” him?
No.

And WHAT HAPPENS, when A man “by his own POWER”, trades Gods TRUTH, for a mans TRUTH ?
QUITE SIMPLY....That man WILL become the servant of the man.
QUITE SIMPLY....Scripture IS FULL of the NEGATIVE consequences (warnings)
Of WHAT WILL happen WHEN a man “by his own Power”, rejects Gods Truth, for a mans Truth.

Example...men who had God as their KING, begged for an Earthly man to BE their king...Here is Gods Warning...

1 Sam 8:
4] Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
[5] And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
[6] But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
[7] And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
[8] According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
[9] Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
[10] And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
[11] And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
[12] And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
[13] And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
[14] And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
[15] And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
[16] And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
[17] He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
[18] And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
[19] Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;

Again in Jer 5:
[11] For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the LORD.
[12] They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine:
[13] And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them.
[14] Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
[15] Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
[16] Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all mighty men.
[17] And they shall eat up thine harvest, and thy bread, which thy sons and thy daughters should eat: they shall eat up thy flocks and thine herds: they shall eat up thy vines and thy fig trees: they shall impoverish thy fenced cities, wherein thou trustedst, with the sword.

* Review History...of men who have been; “kings, emperors, presidents, popes”, whatever title they go by.....ALL the same... TAKING FROM THE PEOPLE for their OWN BENEFIT!
* Review the Present...of men who ARE; “kings, emperors, presidents, popes”, whatever title they go by....ALL the same....TAKING FROM THe PEOPLE for their OWN BENEFIT!

WHAT HAS CHANGED....IS a new Offering WAS Given mankind.
2,000 years ago, a New Testament, A Better Testament, A NEW Covenant, A NEW Promise.

THE NEW OFFERING....IS “A COMPLETE CHANGE OF POWER” reliance.
Meaning....Men, who “rely on their OWN POWER”... to HEAR, LEARN, or KEEP Gods TRUTH IN them...............FAIL!
* The majority of men IN the OT....FAILED.
* The majority of men IN the NT....FAILED
* The majority of men IN THIS PRESENT DAY....FAIL.

The NEW OFFERING.....IS “FULLY RELYING ON GODS POWER” to KEEP Gods TRUTH IN a man............

^ THAT IS absolutely Every single mans FREEWILL option TO CHOOSE...
Or NOT.

^ THAT “Offering”, is GIVEN, by God, of God, through Christ (the POWER of God)...TO every single person.

^ THAT “Offering”, is EFFECTED, and “APPLIES ONLY” to men, WHO freely, heartfully, “ACCEPT” Gods OFFERING.

^ A man WHO, freely, heartfully ACCEPTS Gods OFFERING...IS ONCE AND FOREVER, “WITH GODS TRUTH IN THEM”....Gods TRUTH KEPT “IN” THEM...exclusively;
BY THE POWER OF GOD.

^ THAT IS: the meaning of “BORN AGAIN”.
^ THAT IS: the meaning of “FOREVER WITH GOD”.
^ THAT IS: the meaning of OSAS.

That IS the EXPRESS FULL and COMPLETE confidence OF a man, IN the Lord God Almighty.

And what, “kings, emperors, presidents” DO, standing on their soapbox Pointing their Fingers, Wagging their Tongues, Dictating, Demanding Men MUST DO AS THEY SAY, labor for their benefit, give their sons and daughters to labor for their benefit....
* And as we see TODAY...in the ENTIRE WORLD....mask your mouths, stop talking, get off the airways, stop mingling with other people, stop traveling, hugging, touching, shut the church doors, stop listening to the gospel, stop listening to YOUR God.....
* THEY, THEY, THEY...listen only to THEM...and DO AS THEY SAY....
Get in the FREEBIE LINE and LET THEM PUMP POISON into your BODY...
THEY DEMAND IT...YOU MUST, YOU MUST....THREATS if you DO NOT DO as THEY DEMAND...

It IS NOT, NEW phenomenon .... Scripture WARNED repeatedly ...
MEN ARE CORRUPT,
and MEN with ABSOLUTE POWER ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRUPT.

Men have freewill.
Support corrupt men. Follow and do as corrupt men demand.
Accept Gods Offering, for His keeping, Teach Your children the same and not worry about what corrupt men do, preach, demand.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Obeying God is works. Yet you say you never mention works.

EG- is this your quote...?

 

[Cooper]

Utterly FALSE.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21
These are born again believers

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think you got your quotes messed up....

Yes I did forgive me, I corrected it. Please look at it

Must leave now.

You said obeying God is a work.
That's pretty unbelievable EG.

Unbelievable? So what do you think works of righteousness is. Not obeying? Come on man.

Even Paul said that obeying the law was called works.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You say OSAS or NOSAS is the gospel....

Isn't the good news that Jesus died so that we may live with Him forever?

Here is the gospel in miniature form:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


1 Corinthians 15:1-5
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

No speaking of OSAS there...

The gospel speaks about HOW to be saved....
a doctrine you believe or do not believe does not save a person.
Belief in Jesus saves.


ooops!
this is for @Eternally Grateful

Yes, OSAS or NOSAS is the gospel

Osas teaches salvation by Grace through faith. not of work

NOSAS teaches that we must earn, maintain or keep from losing salvation by works.

We also have licentiousness (I believe they claim OSAS) whihc believe you can say a sinners prayer and your saved no matter what with no true repentance or faith.

But yeah they are the gospel