"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[theefaith]

Yes, opposites are opposites. Why do you ask?

I was going to ask him about a few verses

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

so the opposite is true?

 

[theefaith]

It refers to "John's baptism" as opposed to "Jesus' baptism"--water, as opposed to the Holy Spirit. Acts 19

how? John’s baptism was for repentance and did not wash away sin, but pointed to Christ and Christian baptism

 

[ScottA]

before justification there is nothing

after justification by faith and baptism we are a new creation
In Christ with sanctifying grace
Our actions are meritorious before God

You are separating what God has joined together...which He also does, but only for explanation--not because they are actually separate. It is not good that you separate them...you are just confusing yourself as did those who went before you, who and made a doctrine of it. It is a doctrine of errors.

 

[ScottA]

there is only one Christian baptism Matt 28:19 in the name of the father and of the sun and of the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one Lord. one faith, one baptism.

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

Since you say there is only one baptism and refer to this in the scriptures, why then do you hold onto water baptism, why do you not drop the water baptism and only refer to the baptism of Christ by the Holy Spirit?

I suspect you only do so to defend your doctrine which prefers water baptism as if it were the same. It is not--just as Paul clarified.

Nonetheless, I have identified both baptisms and why water baptism still points to the actual baptism of Jesus, of which water baptism is only a sign.

 

[ScottA]

I was going to ask him about a few verses

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

so the opposite is true?

I have already answered about opposites. What is your point--what are you getting out?

 

[ScottA]

how? John’s baptism was for repentance and did not wash away sin, but pointed to Christ and Christian baptism

Exactly...as I said, water baptism is a sign, and Jesus's baptism by the Holy Spirit is what it points to.

Why then, have you been arguing the point?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

you insist on “faith alone”?

You still can not respond to my post.

Sorry bro. I don’t play that game, You respond to what I said about sin and death. Then maybe I will answer your question.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

yes it does

Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for sheloved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.


1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.


Grace alone? Heb 11;6

So the penalty of sin is to show mercy.

If someone gets the death penalty because they committed murder. What Good will showing mercy be for them> They will still suffer the debt they owe for being found guilty of a crime.

 

[theefaith]

You are separating what God has joined together...which He also does, but only for explanation--not because they are actually separate. It is not good that you separate them...you are just confusing yourself as did those who went before you, who and made a doctrine of it. It is a doctrine of errors.

Are redemption, justification, sanctification, and salvation the same or different?

please define each

 

[theefaith]

Since you say there is only one baptism and refer to this in the scriptures, why then do you hold onto water baptism, why do you not drop the water baptism and only refer to the baptism of Christ by the Holy Spirit?

I suspect you only do so to defend your doctrine which prefers water baptism as if it were the same. It is not--just as Paul clarified.

Nonetheless, I have identified both baptisms and why water baptism still points to the actual baptism of Jesus, of which water baptism is only a sign.

because the Christian sacrament of baptism requires water!

Three requirements

intention: to do what the church always does, to fulfill the commandment of Jesus to baptize

form: must conform to the command in Matt 28:19
I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit.

matter: water flowing over the forehead three times

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

 

[theefaith]

I have already answered about opposites. What is your point--what are you getting out?

that’s all I wanted to know

 

[theefaith]

I have already answered about opposites. What is your point--what are you getting out?

Are we required to keep the commandments?

 

[theefaith]

Exactly...as I said, water baptism is a sign, and Jesus's baptism by the Holy Spirit is what it points to.

Why then, have you been arguing the point?

see #1670

there is no “faith alone”
Spiritual baptism

it’s a covenant not a Bible study

 

[theefaith]

Exactly...as I said, water baptism is a sign, and Jesus's baptism by the Holy Spirit is what it points to.

Why then, have you been arguing the point?

“Faith alone”?
1 cor 13:13 three things
Faith hope and charity!

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit

they did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as your personal Lord and savior!

vs 22 they went to the river (water) and baptized!!!


Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Receive the spirit and a new heart
Ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 

[theefaith]

You still can not respond to my post.

Sorry bro. I don’t play that game, You respond to what I said about sin and death. Then maybe I will answer your question.

I said yes we must die!

 

[theefaith]

So the penalty of sin is to show mercy.

If someone gets the death penalty because they committed murder. What Good will showing mercy be for them> They will still suffer the debt they owe for being found guilty of a crime.

So the penalty of sin is to show mercy.

If someone gets the death penalty because they committed murder. What Good will showing mercy be for them> They will still suffer the debt they owe for being found guilty of a crime.

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

 

[ScottA]

Are redemption, justification, sanctification, and salvation the same or different?

please define each

Each defines a different part of salvation which is one thing. If you want more, look them up.

The point is God has broken it down for understanding--not that they should be considered things that come on a timeline. The same is true of history...it just the story of all that is timeless with God. This is just Him revealing "all truth." But it all [actually] occurred in the twinkling of an eye--His eye.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I said yes we must die!

Your already dead. (unless your justified)

and if your debt is not redeemed, You will continue to remain dead for all eternity

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

the penalty of sin is DEATH.

The GIFT of God is life

what part of death and gift do you not understand?

 

[ScottA]

because the Christian sacrament of baptism requires water!

Three requirements

intention: to do what the church always does, to fulfill the commandment of Jesus to baptize

form: must conform to the command in Matt 28:19
I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit.

matter: water flowing over the forehead three times

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

I couldn't even read all that...it all starts out as manmade religious nonsense. The gospels define it correctly, but you and your fathers have made a religion out of your own practice which have gone far beyond--off the path of what is written and called for.

Stick with the gospels and scripture.