Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Peanut]

For those that believe they can lose their salvation, is this verse then untrue? John 10:28-30.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Peanut]

Just an aside, as someone here missed what I was trying to say before.
Do you ever wonder how some can be so venomous, their words hate filled, sarcastic, when defending the truth of God in Christ?
Is it fitting that speaking of salvation the Christian would act in such ways as to represent the Holy Spirit within? And the Gospels themselves?
Why do we speak to each other in such ways?

 

[BreadOfLife]

For those that believe they can lose their salvation, is this verse then untrue? John 10:28-30.

Nobody can snatch us out of His hand.
We can jump out by our own doing, however.

Just as nobody but Christ saves you - Nobody but yourself condemns you.

 

[Helen]

Amen, it is to do with faithfulness. If the servant remains faithful he will be rewarded, if not he will be condemned. That is the plain reading of the parable.

In vs. 43-44 the servant is rewarded for being faithful.
In vs. 45-46 the servant is condemned for unfaithfulness.

God bless,
Mick

There you said it...

A Servant is rewarded for faithfulness...

...."But a son remains in the House forever "

John 8:5 " And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever."

 

[ScottA]

I'm afraid that you have lost me entirely.

God bless,
Mick

Okay, you're not tracking with your own example of a parable...so forget the parable, it didn't prove your point anyway.

When a person is "saved" they are not in some "wait upon the Lord" stasis until the final judgement, they are "a new creation." "The old man" cannot be recovered (if it were even possible to lose ones salvation) - because "the old man" is dead, and "free from the law of sin and death." And if "free" then "there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."

...And since the timing wasn't working for you in the parable, I made bold "now", so as not to be confused with previous times.

"It is finished."

 

[ScottA]

For those that believe they can lose their salvation, is this verse then untrue? John 10:28-30.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given themto Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Thank you!

 

[mjrhealth]

For those that believe they can lose their salvation, is this verse then untrue? John 10:28-30.

you left out a bit

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

There are billions in this world who call themslves christians, if you where to ask Jesus HE would tell you not as many this bit,

Mat_15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

That verse 10:28 is only for those who are His as He said to Peter

Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Being a christian does not make you one of His sheep, there is a price to pay for that, this bit

Luk_14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk_14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk_14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

And it is a high price to pay.

But for salvation

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[ScottA]

Just an aside, as someone here missed what I was trying to say before.
Do you ever wonder how some can be so venomous, their words hate filled, sarcastic, when defending the truth of God in Christ?
Is it fitting that speaking of salvation the Christian would act in such ways as to represent the Holy Spirit within? And the Gospels themselves?
Why do we speak to each other in such ways?

John 13:35
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[Stranger]

Eph. 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

NO mention of NOT being able to reject God's grace.
Try again . . .

It is very clear. You are saved by faith. Thus no work can take away your salvation. No work can make you disbelieve.

Now, show me chapter and verse where we lose our salvation because of a work we do.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Not at all.
The son clearly rejects his Father and demands his reward up front.
It's not until he repents that his reward is restored.

The son never quit being the son. He was still the son. A picture of salvation. Not loss of salvation. What a distorted theology.

Stranger

 

[Mick_Alexander]

"there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."

You need to quote the entire verse to get the real meaning. Rom 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". The corollary is that there is condemnation for who walk after the Spirit but after the flesh.

Of course you may well be like most OSAS believers who say that the corollary does not naturally follow even though common English demands it.

"It is finished."

This statement by Jesus was not referring to the finish of our salvation or His propitiatory work or any such thing. If you read it carefully (John 19:28-30) you will see that Jesus was talking about the finish of his earthly work. Note that these verses say that He drank the wine to fulfil scripture and then said, "It is finished".

It was only His earthly work that was finished. To complete His work of atonement/propitiation, He had to die, be buried, rise from the grave three days later and then present His blood on the mercy seat in the heavenly tabernacle. Only then was forgiveness of sin available to mankind through repentance.

"It is finished" has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than the completion of His earth side of things.

God bless,
Mick

 

[Stranger]

You make the common mistake of thinking someone can leave a place they have never been to. To forsake means to depart from or renounce or give up on.

If English words mean anything then to forsake the right way means to depart from it and you can only depart from a place you are at.

God bless,
Mick

They are false teachers and prophets. They have denied the Lord. They have forsaken the right way and gone the wrong way. That doesn't mean they were Christians. It means they have forsaken the right way. See (Rom. 1:19-20)

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Luke 22:3-4
Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.

Whooa up there pardner. Are you saying Judas was a believer? A child of God?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Once is enough thanks.

Apparently not.

Stranger

 

[Mick_Alexander]

There you said it...

A Servant is rewarded for faithfulness...

...."But a son remains in the House forever "

John 8:5 " And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever."

Amen, a servant is rewarded for faithfulness and condemned for unfaithfulness.

Repentance to be saved is not works, Jesus commanded it.
In Luk_13:3, "repent" is Present Active Subjunctive means that we must continue in repentance otherwise perish. In Mar_1:15, both "repent" and "believe" are Present Active Imperatives meaning that Jesus commands mankind to repent and actively continue to repent, as well as believe and actively continue to believe in order to inherit eternal life.

I'll ask you this -
In Luk_13:3, the word "repent" is Present Active Subjunctive, meaning that Jesus said we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish in hell. So, here is a question, "Does a Christian need to continue in repentance to be saved and not perish?"

There are only two possible answers -
If you believe Jesus and say "Yes" then your belief in Once Saved is wrong.
If you say "No" then you believe that Jesus is wrong.
It must be one way or the other.
What do you say?

God bless,
Mick

 

[Stranger]

Nobody can snatch us out of His hand.
We can jump out by our own doing, however.

Just as nobody but Christ saves you - Nobody but yourself condemns you.

So...you're a nobody?

Well, if Christ doesn't condemn me, then I am saved.

Stranger

 

[Mick_Alexander]

They are false teachers and prophets. They have denied the Lord. They have forsaken the right way and gone the wrong way. That doesn't mean they were Christians. It means they have forsaken the right way. See (Rom. 1:19-20)

Stranger

Forsake means to leave, abandon, renounce, give up etc. You can only forsake that which you had at one time. Jesus is the Right Way so to forsake the right way is to forsake Jesus.

A common OSAS error is along the same lines. They say that an apostate is someone who never believed but the word means a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle or whatever.

Just like forsake, apostates leave a position they once held. A Muslim who become a Buddhist is an apostate Muslim; a Hindu who become a Christian is an apostate Hindu and someone who apostatises from Christianity to another religion, even atheism, is an apostate Christian.

God bless,
Mick

 

[ScottA]

You need to quote the entire verse to get the real meaning. Rom 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". The corollary is that there is condemnation for who walk after the Spirit but after the flesh.

Of course you may well be like most OSAS believers who say that the corollary does not naturally follow even though common English demands it.

I wouldn't know about OSAS believers. But you misunderstand. Paul is not saying "if" one walks after the flesh or not...he is stating a fact referring to: "them...who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This statement by Jesus was not referring to the finish of our salvation or His propitiatory work or any such thing. If you read it carefully (John 19:28-30) you will see that Jesus was talking about the finish of his earthly work. Note that these verses say that He drank the wine to fulfil scripture and then said, "It is finished".

It was only His earthly work that was finished. To complete His work of atonement/propitiation, He had to die, be buried, rise from the grave three days later and then present His blood on the mercy seat in the heavenly tabernacle. Only then was forgiveness of sin available to mankind through repentance.

"It is finished" has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than the completion of His earth side of things.

You have much to learn about the times:

"but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."

There is no "earthly works" vs. "His work of atonement/propitiation." It is one work:

"the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages" ...Meaning, indeed, then - which was "the end of the ages", "It is finished."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Whooa up there pardner. Are you saying Judas was a believer? A child of God?

Stranger

Judas drive out demons and healed the sick in the name of Christ (Mark 6:12-13) - did he not??

 

[Stranger]

Forsake means to leave, abandon, renounce, give up etc. You can only forsake that which you had at one time. Jesus is the Right Way so to forsake the right way is to forsake Jesus.

A common OSAS error is along the same lines. They say that an apostate is someone who never believed but the word means a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle or whatever.

Just like forsake, apostates leave a position they once held. A Muslim who become a Buddhist is an apostate Muslim; a Hindu who become a Christian is an apostate Hindu and someone who apostatises from Christianity to another religion, even atheism, is an apostate Christian.

God bless,
Mick

Did you read the verses in (Romans) I gave you? Of course you did. Which is why you didn't comment on them. (19-20) "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

These know the way. They know the truth. But they are not saved. They reject the truth knowingly. Read also (Rom. 1:32)

They knew the way but forsook the way. They were never saved just as those in (2 Peter) were never saved.

Stranger