Right on brother Matthew....sanctification is over a lifetime not the instant we are justified and declared righteous through God. We MUST mature before we are glorified indeed.
Sanctification is not a Process
- Thread starter Episkopos
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Would like to know your answer, too, if you would like to share?
I know when I was young I hated human beings. At 26 was my journey and process of learning about God. No one could ever say probably they know all the answers. I do not but have a good idea to know that it would be foolish to think that it is not needed for Children to grow from children into mature adults in Christ Jesus; and to conceive it as impossible is not possible for me to grasp; though to receive and to have a new life compared to the old life which is put to death is obtainable according to the scripture.
Does it take time to overcome and put God first in one’s life? Yes.
The flesh is not simply subdued by our own effort it can be sudued by the spirit but the flesh will always mess up from time to time; when evil intent comes into the heart. That is why Paul talked about the spirit and the flesh fight amongst each other.
No, I trust in the Lord....and claim nothing as "mine." But for you...everything is yours already...you have deemed yourself worthy of justification, salvation and righteousness on the level of God Himself. It would make a Pharisee blush.
And now you are on a quest to be holy...climbing the mountain or the tower you are building to get there.
But holiness is a gift of grace received by faith.
So you are into works salvation....and then you say I am. So your world is upside down...
Man, I would never send you to fill up a car with gas...it would take a lifetime!
God can fill an empty vessel with HIS holiness in the blink of an eye.
Pray to God to be filled with His Spirit. God's Spirit is holy. It doesn't take a lifetime...just some faith. But ALL the faith you have.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Dude, your slanderous lies will come back to haunt you
I havre never deemed myself holy. or worthy of salvation. did the tax collector deem himself holy. Nor am I on the level of God. it is WHY I require grace every day of my life. Because of left to my own, i would be cursed forever.
I do not know how you can read my posts and come up with the nonsense you keep coming up with
Also when I first became a Christian I was a highly judgmental Christian looking down on everyone while relishing in my own sinful hateful ways. It took some time but the Holy Spirit really started working more on my heart when hearing the word of God which builds up faith. That is why reading the Bible is very important and studying so that you will be in no need of someone to teach you if you take the time to ask God and allow him to help you in your studies. Not to say all teaching is bad, people may teach how they want to. Will love regardless.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So where are the babes in christ in your belief system?Man, I would never send you to fill up a car with gas...it would take a lifetime!
God can fill an empty vessel with HIS holiness in the blink of an eye.
Pray to God to be filled with His Spirit. God's Spirit is holy. It doesn't take a lifetime...just some faith. But ALL the faith you have.
where are the young adults in your system?
why do we not even see believers in the NT who one second are lost. and the second later they are not only saved, But super mature adult believers who do not need to learn. not need ot be taught. Not need ot go through persecution and trial to help them grow?
The tax collector never claimed to be righteous...that's why God justified him. And I never said you said you were holy...you are trying to build a mountain of self-effort to attain that...which you will never reach...because you are not seeking God by faith.
Exactly what I think about your outrageous claims...that you conveniently deny...which everyone here can read for themselves.
Why the games?
Yes, being set apart by the power of the Spirit we LEARN to cooperate with the Spirit of God, to walk maturely, from a crawler into a runner as Paul indicated in some many words. He knew what being called and being sanctified was all about as he knew it was the core spiritual activity of a believer's walk, as we work out our salvation indeed. Without this growing and maturing sanctification making the world become more distant over time, and to further self-deny ourselves and give ourselves more and more over to the Spirit, we could not walk to the finish of the race of Paul's words. We might be disqualified....if we could not walk in the Spirit we must question our rebirth as being genuine or not. Did we fake it with our carnal mind (outer man) thinking we received and instant mature sanctification, all in vain...and we might then not be saved at all......ranting away here ...
anyway you have some great words in your posts on this subject....
Maybe one day God will fill you with HIS Holy Spirit. Then you will see that holiness is not something to work for...it is a gift of grace through faith.
It’s okay if you disagree friend thank you for hearing me out.
You should understand though I don’t believe anyone works for holiness; but through growing and mature in faith; the spirit of God within them grows, and they store up treasures in heaven and they live off of the everlasting bread and everlasting water, partaking in the flesh and drinking the blood of the messiah in remembrance of his death, and of the things he taught and the things they learned after having received the Holy Spirit.
Their mindset is a heavenly focused one and not so much on the earth and it’s ways they focus to have a godly devoted life and to live for God and the Lord.
It takes some time for people to decide to grow and read and learn; but when they do; the more the spirit of Christ with-in comes forth rather than the nature of the flesh.
Why else would Jesus talk about the sower who went out to spread seed, and the four heart conditions found with-in, it takes time to forgive and to love your neighbor and let go of things people may have done to you, or you have done to other people; and through time by that building up of faith, and growing and mature in spirit a person lives all the wiser walking in the spirit and walking by faith that God is helping them progress through their lives in which he was not there before in such a way that is like a Father.
Holiness is by a gift of grace through faith. Entering into Jesus, He becomes our sanctification and wisdom and righteousness. It is a gift. Entering into Christ is not a long process. Winning our own soul for Christ is a long arduous process. In that process we become mature in righteousness...as we learn righteousness.
But not holiness. Holiness is to be in God's presence.
Actually not to be naive or smug, I really do not understand what you just said Epi. I really do not know what to do with it...at this time anyway...Man, I would never send you to fill up a car with gas...it would take a lifetime!
God can fill an empty vessel with HIS holiness in the blink of an eye.
Pray to God to be filled with His Spirit. God's Spirit is holy. It doesn't take a lifetime...just some faith. But ALL the faith you have.
.. empty vessel? I do not think so........so God will zap me instantly with the exact 'level' of sanctification as Christ..I do not think so....even as a believer of many decades..am I warm or is there some decoding of the mind that is needed?
Thank God for process after all man. Have a good day, thank you for the talk.
Because of Jesus people are brought the place of being able to stand before the throne of grace, his works are mighty indeed.
If of course they desire that or not.
Some people don’t care, or haven’t learn that information yet,
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 42 hagiōsýnē (another feminine noun derived from 40 /hágios) – holiness(sanctification) which focuses on the Holy Spirit's influence of preparing the believer for eternity. (The suffix, -synē, expresses this transformation as a character-qualitythat comes by the grace of God.) See 40(hagios).
42 /hagiōsýnē ("holiness/sanctification") is "the brand" of God's sanctification that brings His gift of holiness so the believer can fully enjoy eternal life now and in the hereafter. This specific "holiness results from (the process of) 38 /hagiasmós" (Abbott-Smith).
[42 (hagiōsýnē) shares the same essential meaning as its root 40 /hágios ("holy, see there).]
Here is the definition of holy.
Human beings build on the foundation of the word of God and they are rewarded accordingly in heaven for their decision to live for God and love God and others; and it was Jesus who makes them right with the Father, @Episkopos.
Therefore remember there are rewards coming to everyone that is a believer and will receive what the Father gives you as a spiritual body when one gets to heaven; and those who are unbelievers are said to be given spiritual condemned bodies placed on the outside.
A choice, and a decision to live for God and in faith, and walk by the spirit is all the choice we have.
Of course it’s a choice to even read the Bible and learn about God or Jesus anyway, therefore most of these things revolve around mainly believers; they will be rewarded, for serving God, by worship God in spirit and truth.
Have a good one.
Cognate: 42 hagiōsýnē (another feminine noun derived from 40 /hágios) – holiness(sanctification) which focuses on the Holy Spirit's influence of preparing the believer for eternity. (The suffix, -synē, expresses this transformation as a character-qualitythat comes by the grace of God.) See 40(hagios).
42 /hagiōsýnē ("holiness/sanctification") is "the brand" of God's sanctification that brings His gift of holiness so the believer can fully enjoy eternal life now and in the hereafter. This specific "holiness results from (the process of) 38 /hagiasmós" (Abbott-Smith).
[42 (hagiōsýnē) shares the same essential meaning as its root 40 /hágios ("holy, see there).]
Here is the definition of holy.
Human beings build on the foundation of the word of God and they are rewarded accordingly in heaven for their decision to live for God and love God and others; and it was Jesus who makes them right with the Father, @Episkopos.
Therefore remember there are rewards coming to everyone that is a believer and will receive what the Father gives you as a spiritual body when one gets to heaven; and those who are unbelievers are said to be given spiritual condemned bodies placed on the outside.
A choice, and a decision to live for God and in faith, and walk by the spirit is all the choice we have.
Of course it’s a choice to even read the Bible and learn about God or Jesus anyway, therefore most of these things revolve around mainly believers; they will be rewarded, for serving God, by worship God in spirit and truth.
Have a good one.
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When a person is filled with the Spirit there is a flow of life...a holy life flow that comes out of our "belly" as Jesus said. That's how we are to be holy as our Father in heaven is holy.
When we are broken as a vessel....then God can fill us. Even to overflowing.
Entering INTO Christ provides instant sanctification. Then we can say....As He is, so are we in this world.
How long did it take for the temple to be sanctified to the Lord? Or all the holy vessels within? A lifetime? No, anything that is holy is so instantaneously.
What about the ground around the burning bush? God told Moses to take his shoes off because the ground was holy. How long did it take for the ground to be holy? Was it not instantaneous according to God's presence?
So then what we as believers need in our lives is God's presence. If you delay that for a lifetime....then you are living a life without God in it.
You shouldn’t do that to me, @Episkopos[/USEbut I’ll accept it.
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@Episkopos, I personally don’t care what you may believe is right or wrong but this is the last message I’ll send your way. As I couldn’t hate you just because you may view things differently.
I’m not trying to battle anyone here; because your saved by faith through grace and the learning process can only be done if a person desires to learn anyway a total choice.
Not to say you need to learn anything but there are people out there who are still learning and growing into knowing who God is and who the Lord is out there today.
You know there is a process.
Would you like to share your testimony?
I use to hate people. And sometimes I still have that hate in me; but through the PROCESS of TIME; one learns through the mistake that are made; and when the Process of taking time to read the Bible comes on the scene.
It’s needed.
It’s important.
It renews the mind.
Let me ask you a question; even though when you first became a believer in Christ and received the Holy Spirit and you gave your life to God.
Was you just suddenly perfect? Or Mature? I know I wasn’t.
I can honestly say when I started really reading and learning about Jesus by myself I started becoming judgmental on everyone around me; thankfully though a teacher taught me that it’s not about being judgmental; it’s about growing into the vine who is Christ.
If you abide in him he will abide in you, which brings forth compassion, kindness, forgiveness, love, joy, forbearance, carrying others burdens and over all these are naturally not in our ability to do; they are form the spirit.
Therefore why do you question the understanding that; no one comes to God perfect or mature. They all come as children of God into the kingdom by faith; children meaning they have the spirit but they also get into their flesh and have arguing and bickering. Those who continue to grow in the spirit dying to the flesh and dying to sin; make and effort and choice to ask God to help by the spirit to overcome their natural tendencies of the heart which are all self predicated and not focused on God and others instead which is where a person should be in their heart.
Therefore how is there no process?
I’m not trying to battle anyone here; because your saved by faith through grace and the learning process can only be done if a person desires to learn anyway a total choice.
Not to say you need to learn anything but there are people out there who are still learning and growing into knowing who God is and who the Lord is out there today.
You know there is a process.
Would you like to share your testimony?
I use to hate people. And sometimes I still have that hate in me; but through the PROCESS of TIME; one learns through the mistake that are made; and when the Process of taking time to read the Bible comes on the scene.
It’s needed.
It’s important.
It renews the mind.
Let me ask you a question; even though when you first became a believer in Christ and received the Holy Spirit and you gave your life to God.
Was you just suddenly perfect? Or Mature? I know I wasn’t.
I can honestly say when I started really reading and learning about Jesus by myself I started becoming judgmental on everyone around me; thankfully though a teacher taught me that it’s not about being judgmental; it’s about growing into the vine who is Christ.
If you abide in him he will abide in you, which brings forth compassion, kindness, forgiveness, love, joy, forbearance, carrying others burdens and over all these are naturally not in our ability to do; they are form the spirit.
Therefore why do you question the understanding that; no one comes to God perfect or mature. They all come as children of God into the kingdom by faith; children meaning they have the spirit but they also get into their flesh and have arguing and bickering. Those who continue to grow in the spirit dying to the flesh and dying to sin; make and effort and choice to ask God to help by the spirit to overcome their natural tendencies of the heart which are all self predicated and not focused on God and others instead which is where a person should be in their heart.
Therefore how is there no process?
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