Sanctification is not a Process

[marks]

The Lord has taken so much away from my life that I used to rely on for self worth, identity, purpose, etc, that sometimes I feel overwhelmed at just being alive because it's as though I don't know how to "be" alive any more, and in those moments I draw near to God in deeper ways than previously, because I need Him more. I believe He is emptying us of ourselves in order to fill us with more of Him. It's as though we start to draw our life from Him more and more when there is nothing else left to draw our life from.....abiding in the vine in a deeper way.

I keep remembering this post. You've described me here also, especially in the part, as though I don't know how to be alive any more. Your words have resonated in me very much!

Much love!

 

[APAK]

Two points. (and then some more....)

First, the corrupt post-modern church teaches that SIN is a disease. It isn't. SIN is offense against God. SIN is no more a disease than bank robbery is a disease or battlefield killing is a disease. SIN is what is DONE against the LAW of the Most High. In that we have all committed violation of God's LAW we are SINNERS. SIN is more of a verdict than a sickness, for the consequence of the verdict is imprisonment and death. The consequence of an illness is a doctor's bill.

Second, I continually hear arguments about the LAW from people who KNOW IT NOT. Everyone who's heard the reiterations of some backwater Biblically illiterate preacher echos the same thing. The LAW cannot save. WHY? Nobody seems to know, but they wail and rant and parrot empty phrases about licentious grace even as they seek to justify their own SIN.

Again - everyone parrots scripture, as satan did to Jesus, to justify their ignorance or their willful desire to justify their guilt.

Why doesn't the LAW save? It doesn't save because it says it doesn't save. Can we move past this point? Apparently not.

Everyone wants to justify their position - right or wrong. Nobody knows the LAW. Everybody hates the very mention of it. Even a large number of Jews have rejected it (Torah - the 1st 5 books of the Bible known as the LAW). Did you know that? Church types can reject the LAW and tell themselves they've got licentious grace to justify every filthy thing they touch. Jews have their tradition - similar to the church's pagan traditions I may add.

Matthew 24:12 is one of many scriptures that predict the rise of lawLESSness in the last days. This doesn't refer to crime and violence although such things are predicted as well. It speaks to a general DISREGARD and REJECTION of God's Holy LAW. Guess what, dear reader.......we have arrived in the days of lawLESSness. The fact that many now argue against the LAW is proof positive. The fact of widespread ignorance of the LAW is proof positive. The fact that many disregard it and justify SIN by calling it a sickness is proof positive of the work of satan in the hearts and lives of Christians and Jews alike.

The church has followed the pharisees into the same spiritual self-righteous muck that Jesus warned us about - the leaven of the pharisees (Mark 8:15) - religious TRADITIONS that become self-important to the point the Bible, Jesus and salvation itself are thrown to the wind.

Why doesn't the LAW save? It doesn't save, in and of itself, because the purpose of the LAW is to instruct the man as to his condition before God - as in offense of SIN, not a disease. Nobody is excused, even if they're Jewish. Nobody is excused even if they're self-righteous church types. Nobody is excused because SIN is as much a part of the man as his head and his heart. The man IS SIN and that's why the man must DIE.

What hope then do we have? There is no real hope in traditions, lovely and important as we think they may be. There is no real hope in the LAW because it leaves us by the roadside when we refuse to walk in it. There is no real hope in religion because it has become shallow and empty and devoid of anything worthy of attention, much less respect. THIS IS WHY the church has become a joke. The people inside don't really know why they're there. The people outside don't know either and they laugh because they understand the joke is on us all.

The LAW tells us the way to go and what we'll find at the end of the road. It is for us to walk in it. Somewhere along the way we may encounter the cross if we don't get distracted by something. The LAW tells us what the cross is for and the LAW begins to teach us how we should walk on the rest of the journey, as we carry our cross with us. (Luke 14:27) For those who walk in the LAW, the sight of the cross isn't the end of things, but the beginning of a conscious desire to follow Jesus.

Paul wrote chapters 6, 7 & 8 in the book of Romans, but nobody seems to have the intelligence or the intestinal fortitude to read it. These chapters have been described by some as the Grand Canyon of the Bible (to which I would personally add Genesis 3). These chapters discuss in great detail the process of SANCTIFICATION, which some here deny. Apparently these brain dead morons believe they're better at writing scripture than St. Paul.

WHY READ THE THING when all we wish to do is dispute it?

If one doesn't understand scripture then one tends to interpret it.

Including God's Holy LAW, which has NOT been abolished at all. (Matthew 5:17)

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

A well thought-out post and it shoots a bullseye as to the cause and effect of sin in our lives and unfortunately so many deal with it STILL, by running under the covers of grace, without understanding that the law even of the law of Christ still reveals genuine sin. Christ came to fulfil or complete the law that still exists indeed for human beings. This Law makes many religious folks uncomfortable, as it gets in the way of their own perfection or even self-righteousness. All they want to hear is how they are saved by grace and then somehow sin is not as a serious of an offence to God, especially if they have Christ. Fortunately they are not alone to deal with sin if they are in Christ..... Although real sin needs to be confessed even though justified and being righteous because of Christ as their imputed righteousness. As an un-repented sin does usually ruin one's holiness and righteous development or walk with our Father God.

You have no doubt lived this post I see, with personal experiences, and this is what this type of site sorely needs. Someone to speak truth in scripture from someone that has lives in the Spirit of the Father, and without adding any sugar-coating or presenting words that releases a sweet smelling holy aroma into the audience just to keep many folks happy in their 'sinless' lives and without having to address their problem with sin.

I agree that we must all know of the Law (revisited - AGAIN) first and its purpose and reason for it existence today, to face it head on as it does steer us to the Cross, eventually. The Law DOES SAVE as it brings us to the Father and the Son. Then we MUST carry our cross if we have truly met Christ there at his Cross and of his death and resurrection as the human life-giving spirit given to him by his Father. To all that have this saving faith and believe in his works and shows his cross in 'suffering' then they too have this same spirit infused into them upon rebirth as our Savior.....

Thanks for your input, and it's a refreshing one.

//So do you live close to Clermont on/off Hwy 50, by any chance?

 

[marks]

Everyone wants to justify their position - right or wrong.

Including you?

The Law cannot save because it cannot remove your corruption. It can only condemn you in your corrupted state.

Much love!

 

[[email protected]]

Including you?

The Law cannot save because it cannot remove your corruption. It can only condemn you in your corrupted state.

Much love!

You ought to have read my post about the LAW. Many read only the first sentence or two and then react with a knee-jerk response without reading or considering the rest of my post.

You asked "including you" after quoting my statement that 'everyone wants to justify their position right or wrong'.

Do you not know the name of the forbidden fruit mentioned in Genesis 3 - the garden of Eden story? The name of the fruit is Opinion and that's what I was referring to. Man in his fallen state HAS AN OPINION. Women change theirs constantly, but they have one nonetheless. Both oppose God. We know this because God has given us His LAW - which nobody wants to hear about......NOBODY.

The LAW cannot save BECAUSE IT SAYS IT CANNOT SAVE. How many times have people knee-jerked their way out of understanding the LAW. Indeed they do so because they refuse to understand it - because they love SIN more.

"This is the judgment, that light has come into the world but men loved darkness because their deeds were evil." (Jesus quoted by John 3:19)

The words of the Bible predict that in the Last Days lawlessness would abound. That lawlessness isn't necessarily violence and criminality, though that too is predicted. No, the lawlessness predicted is that of REJECTION OF GOD'S HOLY LAW. It's THAT lawlessness.

Even many Jews don't want to bind themselves to it any more.

Struggle to understand it for the LAW is also a guide to sound doctrine. Many say they stand on sound doctrine taught by the Bible and reject the LAW at the same time. One cannot pick and choose what foundation one stands on for a windy day may soon come along and sweep away all the houses built on the shifting sand of lawlessness. (The parable of the houses built on sand and rock refers to LAW vs. lawlessness. Go back and read it in Luke 6.)

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Wrangler]

Everyone wants to justify their position - right or wrong.

Including you?

The Law cannot save because it cannot remove your corruption. It can only condemn you in your corrupted state.

Much love!

Mark, @[email protected] was not talking about salvation but ego-centricism. Why do you change the subject like that?

And why, when he says 'everyone' do you immediately ask if he meant to exclude someone?

If you don't want to respond to his post, just leave it. There is no reason to invoke all these Appeal to Diversions, creating rabbit holes, etc. Is there?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A well thought-out post and it shoots a bullseye as to the cause and effect of sin in our lives and unfortunately so many deal with it STILL, by running under the covers of grace, without understanding that the law even of the law of Christ still reveals genuine sin. Christ came to fulfil or complete the law that still exists indeed for human beings. This Law makes many religious folks uncomfortable, as it gets in the way of their own perfection or even self-righteousness. All they want to hear is how they are saved by grace and then somehow sin is not as a serious of an offence to God, especially if they have Christ. Fortunately they are not alone to deal with sin if they are in Christ..... Although real sin needs to be confessed even though justified and being righteous because of Christ as their imputed righteousness. As an un-repented sin does usually ruin one's holiness and righteous development or walk with our Father God.

You have no doubt lived this post I see, with personal experiences, and this is what this type of site sorely needs. Someone to speak truth in scripture from someone that has lives in the Spirit of the Father, and without adding any sugar-coating or presenting words that releases a sweet smelling holy aroma into the audience just to keep many folks happy in their 'sinless' lives and without having to address their problem with sin.

I agree that we must all know of the Law (revisited - AGAIN) first and its purpose and reason for it existence today, to face it head on as it does steer us to the Cross, eventually. The Law DOES SAVE as it brings us to the Father and the Son. Then we MUST carry our cross if we have truly met Christ there at his Cross and of his death and resurrection as the human life-giving spirit given to him by his Father. To all that have this saving faith and believe in his works and shows his cross in 'suffering' then they too have this same spirit infused into them upon rebirth as our Savior.....

Thanks for your input, and it's a refreshing one.

//So do you live close to Clermont on/off Hwy 50, by any chance?

The law can not and will not help you be sanctified. The law is a few sins. given to expose that we have sinned and fallen short.

If we go to the law as a means of seeing what sins we are or not committing, we will think we are righteous when we are not. Much like the pharisee did.

If we want to overcome sin, we need to look to the law of love.. For only this can help us overcome sin.

 

[Wrangler]

If we go to the law only.

Not sure what kind of sentence this is but I don't recall anyone making a statement remotely like, 'go to the law only.' What's up with that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You ought to have read my post about the LAW. Many read only the first sentence or two and then react with a knee-jerk response without reading or considering the rest of my post.

You asked "including you" after quoting my statement that 'everyone wants to justify their position right or wrong'.

Do you not know the name of the forbidden fruit mentioned in Genesis 3 - the garden of Eden story? The name of the fruit is Opinion and that's what I was referring to. Man in his fallen state HAS AN OPINION. Women change theirs constantly, but they have one nonetheless. Both oppose God. We know this because God has given us His LAW - which nobody wants to hear about......NOBODY.

The LAW cannot save BECAUSE IT SAYS IT CANNOT SAVE. How many times have people knee-jerked their way out of understanding the LAW. Indeed they do so because they refuse to understand it - because they love SIN more.

"This is the judgment, that light has come into the world but men loved darkness because their deeds were evil." (Jesus quoted by John 3:19)

The words of the Bible predict that in the Last Days lawlessness would abound. That lawlessness isn't necessarily violence and criminality, though that too is predicted. No, the lawlessness predicted is that of REJECTION OF GOD'S HOLY LAW. It's THAT lawlessness.

Even many Jews don't want to bind themselves to it any more.

Struggle to understand it for the LAW is also a guide to sound doctrine. Many say they stand on sound doctrine taught by the Bible and reject the LAW at the same time. One cannot pick and choose what foundation one stands on for a windy day may soon come along and sweep away all the houses built on the shifting sand of lawlessness. (The parable of the houses built on sand and rock refers to LAW vs. lawlessness. Go back and read it in Luke 6.)

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Its one thing to know the law

It is a far other thing to misrepresent or to fail to understand the purpose of the law. And try, like the jews, to use it beyond its purpose.

The law was given to lead to Christ. Thats it, there is no purpose for one who has come to christ. they are no longer under the schoolmaster

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not sure what kind of sentence this is but I don't recall anyone making a statement remotely like, 'go to the law only.' What's up with that?

well since it was not written to you. I do not know why you think it was directed to you

 

[APAK]

The law can not and will not help you be sanctified. The law is a few sins. given to expose that we have sinned and fallen short.

If we go to the law as a means of seeing what sins we are or not committing, we will think we are righteous when we are not. Much like the pharisee did.

If we want to overcome sin, we need to look to the law of love.. For only this can help us overcome sin.

You are forgetting that anyone breaking the perfected laws of Christ that are all that can be conceived or known and made for any human being is based on the spirit of the original laws of God. And that breaking any one of them against a person or God directly can hamper our holiness (sanctification) indeed, if only temporarily. So even under grace, the law of Christ cannot boost or improve you sanctification with God either if you break the law as recognized by the spirit of Christ through the Father.

And the law is never only a few. With this kind of mentality it's no wonder you have not studied how and why the original law reveals all types of genuine sin placed within our heart. Today, the law and much more 'of it' is not written in the book of God, it is in our hearts. And I do not count the ceremonial and other cultural holy laws that God gave to the Hebrews here either.

I think you are missing the entire point here EG. I believe you are are so quick to identify yourself as for assurance I might add, as if you might be scared of the consequences of 'the law,' as to say you are saved by grace and you have an automatic 'get of sin card,' without any consequences. And further, you forget why you are forgiven today away for the harsh penalties when the imperfect law was the only devise God used on people, before Christ.

And then you brush it off as if the law was some prerequisite or an earlier experiment of God, in the past, and never to be spoken of again. You do know that because of God's grace we have the spirit of Christ. Without it we have the Law and no law under Christ? And where did you think that law came form? Yes, the law and more are written in our hearts today and we have a true Savior working in us to bring us or keep us holy and righteous. And we can truly thank the Father for that precious grace indeed.

The law is still standing there today as one of the witnesses of God for our age and not just the one before Christ, and is being killed off today in the churches and trodden underfoot. And this is where we get the hyper-grace theologies from and other extreme views that trivialize sin and the normalization and easy peasy formulation under grace to salvation. If you have faith and know you are saved from your sins, do you then bear your own cross today because of what the Savior did for you by paying with his own life and extracting you from your personal sin nature and imminent death?

The law will never go away as long as we are in the flesh. Have you ever stole anything directly or truly by accident or because of the error of an employee of a store.....so is this not the 'old' Law today still revealing sin in our hearts to Christ? And I do not weigh this upon you as I've been there several times, even a couple of months ago this happened to me.

 

[Lizbeth]

I keep remembering this post. You've described me here also, especially in the part, as though I don't know how to be alive any more. Your words have resonated in me very much!

Much love!

Bless you brother. I believe that is the old false self dying, the one that was living a lie....like Adam and Eve in the Garden when they ate from the wrong Tree. In my case, occasionally feeling like I don't know how to "be", how to exist, without that false persona. Sometimes feeling "neked as a jaybird" without that false covering, so a little feeling of almost panic ensues. And needing to learn how to live/exist as I was created in innocence before I ate the lie. False persona was trying to add my own to God's work (as if!) in order to feel "good enough." (We all follow the same pattern as Adam and Eve, so it's good to look deeply at how things went with them.)

 

[ChristisGod]

When you know a brother is truly called and equipped by God...there is no need to try quibbling over doctrines as you know that God will reveal everything to His own in His time.

Philippians 3:15 ... “Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”

Are you called and equipped ?

 

[Wrangler]

And this is where we get the hyper-grace theologies from and other extreme views that trivialize sin and the normalization and easy peasy formulation under grace to salvation.

My non-dominational congregation recently admitted to being a hyper-grace church. They don’t believe it is their job to point out sins. Rather, they believe it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict people of their sin.

Regarding the law & OT, the say it is good for learning history but not application. I’ve written to the pastor pointing out the ONGOING applicability of the law. As I see it, it remains necessary training wheels of behavior until people grow sufficiently in Christ.

That is, many deceive themselves as acting in love but their actions betray them. Our confidence in the fact is revealed ONLY by the ONGOING applicability of the law.

The retired pastor strongly disagreed. No coherent reason was given as far as I could tell.

 

[Episkopos]

Bless you brother. I believe that is the old false self dying, the one that was living a lie....like Adam and Eve in the Garden when they ate from the wrong Tree. In my case, occasionally feeling like I don't know how to "be", how to exist, without that false persona. Sometimes feeling "neked as a jaybird" without that false covering, so a little feeling of almost panic ensues. And needing to learn how to live/exist as I was created in innocence before I ate the lie. Trying to add my own to God's work (as if!) in order to feel "good enough." (We all follow the same pattern as Adam and Eve, so it's good to look deeply at how things went with them.)

Luther went through the same ordeal. He came out of it...not truly covered by God's anointing... but rather with an altered interpretation of the bible to suit a religious covering that can be seen as a justification of sorts for a belief in God.

And that is what I see with so many here. The bible is being used improperly in a bid for self-justification. The Pharisees did the same thing with the Torah. All they had to do was to compare themselves with those pesky carnal sinners....those Publicans and prostitutes...in order to elevate themselves in their own esteem. One would think Jesus' warning against these kinds of antics would be good enough for those who would come later and claimed to be His followers??? Not at all.

We see that very same thing with modern believers who justify themselves based on what they think is accuracy of their beliefs.

It is no wonder that God has hidden the truly deep and wonderful victory that is found only among the humble and the God-fearers.

 

[[email protected]]

The law can not and will not help you be sanctified. The law is a few sins. given to expose that we have sinned and fallen short.

If we go to the law as a means of seeing what sins we are or not committing, we will think we are righteous when we are not. Much like the pharisee did.

If we want to overcome sin, we need to look to the law of love.. For only this can help us overcome sin.

Absolute carnal secular bovine excrement.

There is no such thing as the law of love.

Human love is nothing more than hormonal secretions and social conditioning.

THIS IS WHY so many in America are confused about themselves. They have no standard by which they may define love.
The Bible tells us THAT STANDARD is the LAW of Moses.

"I did not come to abolish the LAW. I came to fulfill it." (Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17)
Please do not attempt to tell anyone how Jesus fulfilled the LAW if you don't know the LAW in the first place.

We are self-righteous "like the pharisees did"?

The pharisees had rejected the LAW of Moses even as the post-modern church today has rejected it. The church, like the pharisees before it, has adopted satanic pagan traditions to justify their wickedness even as they claim God smiles happily when they put their hands upon every filthy thing they desire - as the pharisees did before them.

THERE ARE TWO LAWS.

One is the LAW of Moses, also called the law of Grace because it was written by God's own hand.
One is the law of works, composed by the Jewish rabbinate during their captivity in Babylon. This is the law which has also spawned Jewish tradition, which even Jews today may bind themselves to - mostly.

Jesus lived every day of His life, ministered, died and walked out of His own tomb, by the LAW. So did the apostles - every one of them.

IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR JESUS, THEN IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.

Those who object to the LAW of Moses are more eager to defend SIN, which they falsely define, than they are to embrace that which God has given to us. These are lawless winds of despair and destruction that sweep across our land and lead us to ruin and decimation and death.

NOBODY who looks into the LAW will think of themselves as righteous. Nobody. Try it some time. Make an honest effort.

Have you never lied? Have you never cheated? Have you ever stolen something that didn't belong to you? Have you ever killed an innocent person? (Many have done so - we call them patriots.)

Everybody who looks into the fake traditions they've invented for themselves, including post-modern church types, will believe they are justified before God WHEN THEY ARE NOT. Hypocrites they are and carnal minded they've become. These are they who cannot see the kingdom of God. They will die in their SIN because they refuse to REPENT of it. (Romans 2:12)

Why do you so wickedly? Why do you defend SIN and hate the LAW?

These are the days predicted by our forebears the prophets of Israel, when men would forsake the good and just LAW of Moses and love passion and self rather than God. They are already living in the lake of fire that will eventually consume them in their own wickedness.

IT IS TIME TO REPENT.

The Day of the Lord is quite near. Indeed it's already at the door. Time is running out. REPENT.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[ChristisGod]

Luther went through the same ordeal. He came out of it...not truly covered by God's anointing... but rather with an altered interpretation of the bible to suit a religious covering that can be seen as a justification of sorts for a belief in God.

And that is what I see with so many here. The bible is being used improperly in a bid for self-justification. The Pharisees did the same thing with the Torah. All they had to do was to compare themselves with those pesky carnal sinners....those Publicans and prostitutes...in order to elevate themselves in their own esteem. One would think His warning was good enough for those who would come later and claimed to be His followers??? Not at all.

We see that very same thing with modern believers who justify themselves based on what they think is accuracy of their beliefs.

It is no wonder that God has hidden the truly deep and wonderful victory that is found only among the humble and the God-fearers.

All believers have the anointing of God, not some upper class select few, some group called the "higher" walk.

1 John 2:20-21- But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

See what happens when a person is grounded in the truth, they teach the truth not lies, personal opinions, their false ideas etc.....


But ye have an unction from the Holy One - The apostle in this verse evidently intends to say that he had no apprehension in regard to those to whom he wrote that they would thus apostatize, and bring dishonor on their religion. They had been so anointed by the Holy Spirit that they understood the true nature of religion, and it might be confidently expected that they would persevere. The word "unction" or "anointing" (χρίσμα chrisma) means, properly, "something rubbed in or ointed;" oil for anointing, "ointment;" then it means an anointing. The allusion is to the anointing of kings and priests, or their inauguration or coronation, (1 Samuel 10:1; 1 Samuel 16:13; Exodus 28:41; Exodus 40:15; compare the notes at Matthew 1:1); and the idea seems to have been that the oil thus used was emblematic of the gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit as qualifying them for the discharge of the duties of their office. Christians, in the New Testament, are described as "kings and priests," Revelation 1:6; Revelation 5:10, and as a "royal priesthood" 1 Peter 2:5, 1 Peter 2:9; and hence they are represented as "anointed," or as endowed with those graces of the Spirit, of which anointing was the emblem. The phrase "the Holy One" refers here, doubtless, to the Holy Spirit, that Spirit whose influences are imparted to the people of God, to enlighten, to sanctify, and to comfort them in their trials. The particular reference here is to the influences of that Spirit as giving them clear and just views of the nature of religion, and thus securing them from error and apostasy. Barnes

hope this helps !!!

 

[Lizbeth]

Luther went through the same ordeal. He came out of it...not truly covered by God's anointing... but rather with an altered interpretation of the bible to suit a religious covering that can be seen as a justification of sorts for a belief in God.

And that is what I see with so many here. The bible is being used improperly in a bid for self-justification. The Pharisees did the same thing with the Torah. All they had to do was to compare themselves with those pesky carnal sinners....those Publicans and prostitutes...in order to elevate themselves in their own esteem. One would think His warning was good enough for those who would come later and claimed to be His followers??? Not at all.

We see that very same thing with modern believers who justify themselves based on what they think is accuracy of their beliefs.

It is no wonder that God has hidden the truly deep and wonderful victory that is found only among the humble and the God-fearers.

Brother, I don't know what you're saying or how it applies to what I was saying. I would think if the Lord is "undoing" the lie in a person's life, that should be considered a good thing, and the next thing would be to learn to despise the shame and trust the Lord to be covering enough. (Think it's a bit like how the flesh also craves a flesh and blood "king" like Israel did, instead of trusting in a spiritual King that can't be touched or seen.)

 

[Episkopos]

Brother, I don't know what you're saying or how it applies to what I was saying. I would think if the Lord is "undoing" the lie in a person's life, that should be considered a good thing, and the next thing would be to learn to despise the shame and trust the Lord to be covering enough. (Think it's a bit like how the flesh also craves a flesh and blood "king" like Israel did, instead of trusting in a spiritual King that can't be touched or seen.)

Exactly what motivated Luther. He trusted that his new interpretation was equivalent to "power" from heaven. Think...intellectual religious "power."

The kingdom of God is about scale and depth....not emotional triggering and human logic.

 

[[email protected]]

My non-dominational congregation recently admitted to being a hyper-grace church. They don’t believe it is their job to point out sins. Rather, they believe it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict people of their sin.

Regarding the law & OT, the say it is good for learning history but not application. I’ve written to the pastor pointing out the ONGOING applicability of the law. As I see it, it remains necessary training wheels of behavior until people grow sufficiently in Christ.

That is, many deceive themselves as acting in love but their actions betray them. Our confidence in the fact is revealed ONLY by the INGOING applicability of the law.

The retired pastor strongly disagreed. No coherent reason was given as far as I could tell.

Interesting testimony.

"They don't believe it is their job to point out sins."

In today's hedonistic society REPENTANCE is thought to cause people to walk away from the church. Fewer people in the pews equates to smaller donation$ and THIS IS what the whole thing is really about. It's not about spiritual edification. It's about commercial religion and the profits that may derive from it. There's a lot of money to be made in the god business if one knows how to milk the gullible masses of their ca$h.

The position of the Methodist church is to call it the "soft gospel". A Methodist minister told me this personally.

It is this 'soft gospel' that denies SIN altogether, that leads to overt and embraced SIN, by the church and its leaders.
It is this 'soft gospel' that refuses to warn those who may hear of the dangers of denying God, of not knowing what God requires of each of us, by the LAW.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. (Romans 10:17) If it isn't spoken they will not hear the warnings and the promised blessings, by the LAW.

No coherent reason given? I doubt you will ever encounter one because the evil one usually confuses its disciples.

Thank you for posting. I really enjoyed reading your words, really really.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

 

[[email protected]]

Its one thing to know the law

It is a far other thing to misrepresent or to fail to understand the purpose of the law. And try, like the jews, to use it beyond its purpose.

The law was given to lead to Christ. Thats it, there is no purpose for one who has come to christ. they are no longer under the schoolmaster

Once one is led to Christ the Holy Spirit indwells the man. The purposes of the indwelling spirit are many. Some of them are TO ENABLE US TO LIVE LIVES PLEASING UNTO GOD, by the LAW.

We aren't given the Holy Spirit to lead lives of hedonistic purpose are we? What standard then do we adhere to?

We live BY THE LAW, which is written upon the hearts of those who surrender to Christ. The LAW isn't gone at all because we LIVE IT and become a LIVING SACRIFICE unto God (Romans 12:1).

Either one embraces the LAW & GRACE of God or one doesn't. God isn't willing that any should perish, but that all should come to REPENTANCE, by the LAW.

The post-modern church today is withering on the vine because it has denied both the LAW and the savior to whom it directs us for salvation. Many churches today won't even mention the name of JESUS. They are, however, quite vehement in their support of overt SIN.

Which is it SIN or LAW? One cannot sit on the fence and be saved. Choose sides.

Christianity isn't a spectator sport.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...