Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[WPM]

None of the verses used in the OP support the opinion that stars represent angels, nor do they prove "the Bible pattern represents stars as angels."

LOL. Refute it then. Stop avoiding it like the plague.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The passage referenced refers to the mornings stars and sons of God being there while God was creating the earth. No human beings were there when He was creating the earth. They were there even before He created Adam. You need to stop leading others astray with your false teaching.

LOL!!!

No, it is YOU who is being deceived by your own false doctrine.

It is YOU who are forcing church tradition and human imagination into the Word of God instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture. Just because Job 38 speaks about creation does not automatically mean “morning stars” are angelic beings before Adam. That pathetic assumption comes from Sunday school theology, not from the clear testimony of God’s Word. Here is your biblical lesson:

Who does Scripture identify as the Morning Star? Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:16
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And who receives His nature and kingdom? His saints. Not angels!

Rev 2:26-29
(26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
(27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
(28) And I will give him the morning star.
(29) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

See? Christ gives the morning star to those who overcome. Not pre-adam angels as you think! Hello?? The faithful people of God are repeatedly represented as stars, lights, and heavenly bodies because they bear His glory and truth in the kingdom of heaven. They are the messengers (angels). Selah!

The “morning stars” in Job 38:7 rejoicing over the cornerstone points to the spiritual foundation and congregation of God’s kingdom, not some mythical pre-Adamic race of celestial creatures invented by speculative theology based on coloring papers your Sunday School teacher gave you to draw on. The cornerstone throughout Scripture points to Christ and His spiritual house, which is the spiritual congregation of Israel where all morning stars (chosen elect from the Old and New Testament) are found at, not to created celestial beings dancing in outer space over Earth without form and void. Do you realize that God and His Kingdom, where the true cornerstone sits, transcends time? He and His morning stars as eternal - outside of the limitations of past, present and future that govern creation. Selah!

Like you, MANY are so obsessed with proving the existence of pre-human angelic civilizations because they need Satan to fit into their tradition and interpretation. But Scripture never says Satan had to be created before Adam in order to appear in the garden. People are reading assumptions into the text instead of drawing truth out of it. This is why you do not understand exactly what spirit of Satan is. How it begun to exist inside Eve when she lusted after the fruit. Or even what his tail represents in Revelation 12:4 that drew the third part of the stars of heaven. Do you even know what these stars are? What heaven is this? You still have many things to learn.

Beware of those who are always running to Greek philosophy, mystical speculation, and church tradition while neglecting spiritual discernment. They see “stars” or "angels" and immediately imagine celestial beings because their minds are earthly and carnal. But the Bible constantly uses symbolic language for human rulers, messengers, and saints of the congregation, the kingdom of heaven.

Stop forcing your imagination into God’s Word. Let Scripture define Scripture. Christ is the true Morning Star, and His faithful saints shine with Him in His kingdom. Full Stop! Where is your biblical proof of exactly how the morning stars must be your imagination of angels with feathered wings?

Like Christ said... "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". Spiritual discernment by the Spirit of God through the Word of God.

@rwb

 

[rwb]

Jesus said in John 8:44: “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

The phase "the beginning" typically refers to the beginning of creation and earth. Just like the regeneration when Jesus comes refers to "the end" of creation and earth as we know it. Every solid theologian I know believes that Satan rebelled and fell before the beginning of creation and earth. He was a leader of the angelic host in. heaven.

When Jesus said that Satan was a murderer from the beginning, He was not saying that Satan was a murderer from the moment he was created. He was saying that Satan was a murderer from the beginning of creation. The enemy of our souls had already fallen and rebelled against God before that.

Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of the six days of creation when the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea and ALL that is in them.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Here you once again give us a demonstration of your opinions without proving from the Bible what you allege. Satan is indeed the enemy of mankind, desiring to deceive them. How could he have already fallen and rebelled against God before the creation man whom he deceived? Notice when Satan was cursed by God AFTER he beguiled the woman, causing her to disobey God with Adam who was with her, bringing sin and death through sin into creation.

Genesis 3:14-15 (KJV) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[PinSeeker]

I believe Moses and Elijah symbolically represent the written Word and the spoken word (inspired by the Holy Spirit). So the 2 witnesses are the Word and the Holy Spirit.

Both Moses and Elijah were shadows/types of Christ. Just to elaborate a bit on what I said previously, in Revelation 11, the witnesses work miraculous signs of judgment, in a manner reminiscent of Moses and Elijah, two great miracle-working prophets from the Old Testament. Like Moses and Elijah, the church bears prophetic witness. We call people to repentance and warn of coming judgment. Our total message includes not only good news concerning salvation in Christ, but also the revelation of God’s character, which implies that judgment against evil doers is inevitable. Our message is one of power ~ power to save, or power to punish as well. It is not an arbitrary power, to do with as we see fit, but a power that comes from God and that we exercise only as servants who ourselves proclaim a message that we cannot alter. As Jesus said to His disciples ~ and all of us by extension ~ just before His ascension in Acts 1:8, "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Grace and peace to you, WPM.

 

[Rockerduck]

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

This says most everything was accomplished early on.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of the six days of creation when the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea and ALL that is in them.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Here you once again give us a demonstration of your opinions without proving from the Bible what you allege. Satan is indeed the enemy of mankind, desiring to deceive them. How could he have already fallen and rebelled against God before the creation man whom he deceived? Notice when Satan was cursed by God AFTER he beguiled the woman, causing her to disobey God with Adam who was with her, bringing sin and death through sin into creation.

Genesis 3:14-15 (KJV) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Okay, I will jump in to add something for all readers.

This following Scripture should put to bed this leaky doctrine/myth of fallen angels but unfortunately it is not for everyone to see. That which was a murderer and liar from the beginning couldn't possibly fall from grace prior to the beginning could it, or it wouldn't be a beginning?
John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Please understand that:

1. Satan was not created "before the Creation."
2. Satan was not created on Day one.
3. Satan was not created on Day two.
4. Satan was not created on Day three.
5. Satan was not created on Day four
6. Satan was not created on Day five
7. Satan was not created on Day six
8. And Satan was not created, BY GOD, on Day seven when God rested.

So, exactly when was Satan's beginning? How did the Spirit of Disobedience appears in mankind?

God cannot lie, while the Devil was a liar from the beginning, even as God says man goes astray as soon as he is born speaking lies! For example, from the beginning also! See any correlation there between the Devil and unsaved man? Selah!

Psalms 58:3-4

• "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
• Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;"

Here is your Serpent, according to the unadulterated word of God. Here is your liar from the beginning, according to the authoritative word of God. Here is that spirit we are warned not to believe. It is man.

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
• because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Who was a murderer and liar from the beginning? Cain, a man, with the spirit of disobedience? Carnal man, with a spirit he was born with? Yes, but not a angelic super being that possessed him later on. He got this spirit from his mother, Eve, who was disobedience when she was deceived herself by her own spirit which is called, guess what? Satan, that old serpent! Not physical snake that she talked with. She was deceived herself with her own thoughts, temptation and was in rebellion even before she took the bite! This was how Satan begun! God did not create that spirit in her! Selah!

Satan was NEVER in the light of God's Holy Heaven, NEVER a son of God, NEVER was a messenger of Truth, and NEVER a top/chief/arch angel in heaven controlling an army of rebellious spirits against God. NEVER! The light (which God is) cannot dwell with darkness. There is NO darkness in heaven, which necessarily means there is was no Satan there, as he is the epitome of darkness and the Father of lies "from the beginning."

Revelation 22:5

• "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

There was NEVER any night in the place where we will sit with Christ in that heaven, there was never any need for a candle, nor for the light of sun because the Lord God is the light of heaven wherein is no darkness, and always has been, even before the creation. No murderer from the beginning was dwelling there with Him.

The fly in that ointment is that Satan was a murderous, evil and wicked being from the very beginning. That is to say, before there was a the fall of Adam and Eve and before there was a congregation. He was vile, despicable snake right in the garden of Eden when there were only two people in the world, because he is the spirit of evil. If he was not a Son of God in the garden of Eden, how then did he become one in the episode of Job? He was not a angel jumping back and forth from being a snake in the garden on earth and being a angel presenting himself before God in Holy Heaven AGAIN after being kicked out to discuss about Job? Or going back into heaven to fight war with powerful angel called "Michael" before God. HUH!?!

Again:

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

God's word is pure, consistent, true, and has harmony and conformity with itself. When it doesn't, you should know that what's being said is His word is not true. Satan was a adversary spirit within Even when she was tempted by her own thoughts and lusts. How then, "years Later with the episode of Job," was he a "son of God who hadn't fallen yet? Does that really make any sense, or is that a rationalization and justification for those who can't fit him into God's Holy heaven any other way? Moreover, what fellowship has God with the Lord with Satan?

2nd Corinthians 6:14b-15a

• "...for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
• And what concord hath Christ with Belial?..."

I would say none, how about any of you? So Satan was not communing with God in the light of Heaven. Our Lord has no concord with Satan? It's like mixing light with darkness, and it can't be done because either the light will become darker or the dark become lighter. Satan is darkness, not light, so what communion has this wicked agent of darkness with God's holy heaven which is only light? The "correct" answer is...NONE! Therefore, the idea of Satan being in physical Holy Heaven where God is at ANY TIME is absurd!

The spirit of Satan began in the rebellion of Eve. It was the spirit of disobedience and deception working within her that led her to reject God’s command, and Adam followed in the same rebellion. That sinful spirit passed down to all their descendants, including us. We are all born in sin, speaking lies and walking according to the desires of the flesh apart from God.

This is why Jesus Christ came — to set His people free from the spirit of sin, deception, and death. The physical miracles He performed during His earthly ministry were not merely acts of compassion, but signs representing the greater spiritual deliverance He came to accomplish through the Gospel and the Kingdom of God.

 

[WPM]

Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of the six days of creation when the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea and ALL that is in them.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Here you once again give us a demonstration of your opinions without proving from the Bible what you allege. Satan is indeed the enemy of mankind, desiring to deceive them. How could he have already fallen and rebelled against God before the creation man whom he deceived? Notice when Satan was cursed by God AFTER he beguiled the woman, causing her to disobey God with Adam who was with her, bringing sin and death through sin into creation.

Genesis 3:14-15 (KJV) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I have already explained this and you have already totally avoided each point and Scripture. I will repeat.

The phase "the beginning" typically refers to the beginning of creation and earth. Just like the regeneration when Jesus comes refers to "the end" of creation and earth as we know it. Every solid theologian I know believes that Satan rebelled and fell before the beginning of creation and earth. He was a leader of the angelic host in heaven.

The beginning

We see a reference to the beginning of time in Isaiah 41:4: “Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning [Heb. rô'sh]? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.”

Isaiah 41:4 corresponds with what is taught in Revelation 22:6 and

Revelation 22:13. It presents the same great truth. This word indeed describes the commencement of time.

As for the New Testament word for “the beginning,” the word archē is employed throughout to describe the creation week. We see Jesus employing it in Matthew 19:4: “Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female.”

So, these three original words ably describe the beginning of human existence, time and creation as we know it.

Heaven and earth created at the beginning

So, according to Scripture, what happened at the beginning?

• It was the beginning of natural creation.
• It was the beginning of human life.
• It was the beginning of time.

Genesis 1:1 tells us: “In the beginning [Heb. rê'shı̂yth] God created the heaven and the earth.”

I want you to see something very important here: the beginning is often identified in Scripture with creation. You will notice that throughout the Word of God. We will be highlighting that as we progress in our studies.

Natural creation commenced at the beginning.

In Isaiah 40:21 we learn: “Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning [Heb. rô'sh]? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?”

What is this telling us? The exact same thing, only in different terms. This is called synonymous parallelism. It is telling us that to know “from the beginning” is to know from “the foundations of the earth.” These are synonymous realities.

Solomon places both occurrences together in Proverbs 8:23 in his succinct statement: “I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning [Heb. rô'sh], or ever the earth was.”

This word rô'sh takes us back to the start, when the earth was created, the genesis of man and creation began, which saw the origin of life as we know it and the commencement of time.

Believers through the years have little difficulty with grasping this great truth. This is not just restricted to the Old Testament pages. We find it throughout the New Testament.

Believers through the years have little difficulty with grasping this great truth. This is not just restricted to the Old Testament pages. We find it throughout the New Testament. For example, Hebrews 1:10-12 reinforces this thought, only in greater detail, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning [Gr. archē] hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old [Gr. palaioo] as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed [Gr. allasso]: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”

Here we see the duration of this current earth and the whole span of time outlined from the beginning till the end. This corresponds with the current creation around us. It describes the forming of the earth (which was originally perfect), followed by the gradual decay after the Fall (because of the bondage of corruption), and its final replacement at the end to a new glorified eternal incorrupt status.

The two words that are used in the New Testament to describe the start and finish of this current temporal state of time are archē meaning “beginning” and telos meaning “end.” They are the antithesis of each other. The word archē basically means the origin or the commencement. The word telos means the termination, completion or that by which a thing is finished. Notably, the Bible continually relates this phrase “the end” [Gr. telos] to the second coming. The Lord’s return is shown to usher in the completion of this age and of time.

Scripture constantly shows the creation of this earth and the beginning of this world to be the beginning of this age. Likewise, the end of this world and the regeneration of this earth is repeatedly shown to correspond with the end of this age. Time and history find themselves sandwiched in between these two great events. Simply put: “this age” refers to “time” and “the age to come” or the “hereafter” refers to “eternity.”

This corrupt earth is not going to last forever. It has an expiration date. You will discover that it is the glorious return of Jesus Christ.

Scripture constantly shows the creation of this earth and the beginning of this world to be the beginning of this age. Likewise, the end of this world and the regeneration of this earth is repeatedly shown to correspond with the end of this age. Time and history find themselves sandwiched in between these two great events.

 

[WPM]

Who was a murderer and liar from the beginning? Cain, a man, with the spirit of disobedience? Carnal man, with a spirit he was born with? Yes, but not a angelic super being that possessed him later on. He got this spirit from his mother, Eve, who was disobedience when she was deceived herself by her own spirit which is called, guess what? Satan, that old serpent! Not physical snake that she talked with. She was deceived herself with her own thoughts, temptation and was in rebellion even before she took the bite! This was how Satan begun! God did not create that spirit in her! Selah!

More false teaching! Satan was an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16), was at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13), he protected "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14), he was created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15).

The King of Tyrus was not so. Adam was not so. Cain was not so.

Satan was NEVER in the light of God's Holy Heaven, NEVER a son of God, NEVER was a messenger of Truth, and NEVER a top/chief/arch angel in heaven controlling an army of rebellious spirits against God. NEVER! The light (which God is) cannot dwell with darkness. There is NO darkness in heaven, which necessarily means there is was no Satan there, as he is the epitome of darkness and the Father of lies "from the beginning."

Not true! Your greatest enemy is not we Bible believing Christians, it the Word of God. It forbids your error.

Isaiah 14:12-17 states, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning [Heb. hêylêl bênor shachar shining one (or the morning star) son of the dawn]! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?”

Ezekiel 28:12-19: “Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Revelation 12:1-4 shows Satan and his devils being eternally evicted from heaven. Interestingly the demonic angels are depicted as “stars.” It reads: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ... And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[PinSeeker]

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

This says most everything was accomplished early on.

..."must soon take place..." Couldn't you possibly understand that as soon starting to take place, Rockerduck? And I'm not necessarily saying, at least right now, that you should or shouldn't. But can you not think that is possibly a valid way to understand that? And 'soon' is used in various ways in Scripture, sometimes synonymous with being very soon and completely done, and sometimes... not so much...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[WPM]

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

This says most everything was accomplished early on.

What has that to do with the Op?

 

[rwb]

I have already explained this and you have already totally avoided each point and Scripture. I will repeat.

The phase "the beginning" typically refers to the beginning of creation and earth. Just like the regeneration when Jesus comes refers to "the end" of creation and earth as we know it. Every solid theologian I know believes that Satan rebelled and fell before the beginning of creation and earth. He was a leader of the angelic host in heaven.

The beginning

We see a reference to the beginning of time in Isaiah 41:4: “Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning [Heb. rô'sh]? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.”

Isaiah 41:4 corresponds with what is taught in Revelation 22:6 and

Revelation 22:13. It presents the same great truth. This word indeed describes the commencement of time.

As for the New Testament word for “the beginning,” the word archē is employed throughout to describe the creation week. We see Jesus employing it in Matthew 19:4: “Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female.”

So, these three original words ably describe the beginning of human existence, time and creation as we know it.

Heaven and earth created at the beginning

So, according to Scripture, what happened at the beginning?

• It was the beginning of natural creation.
• It was the beginning of human life.
• It was the beginning of time.

Genesis 1:1 tells us: “In the beginning [Heb. rê'shı̂yth] God created the heaven and the earth.”

I want you to see something very important here: the beginning is often identified in Scripture with creation. You will notice that throughout the Word of God. We will be highlighting that as we progress in our studies.

Natural creation commenced at the beginning.

In Isaiah 40:21 we learn: “Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning [Heb. rô'sh]? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?”

What is this telling us? The exact same thing, only in different terms. This is called synonymous parallelism. It is telling us that to know “from the beginning” is to know from “the foundations of the earth.” These are synonymous realities.

Solomon places both occurrences together in Proverbs 8:23 in his succinct statement: “I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning [Heb. rô'sh], or ever the earth was.”

This word rô'sh takes us back to the start, when the earth was created, the genesis of man and creation began, which saw the origin of life as we know it and the commencement of time.

Believers through the years have little difficulty with grasping this great truth. This is not just restricted to the Old Testament pages. We find it throughout the New Testament.

Believers through the years have little difficulty with grasping this great truth. This is not just restricted to the Old Testament pages. We find it throughout the New Testament. For example, Hebrews 1:10-12 reinforces this thought, only in greater detail, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning [Gr. archē] hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old [Gr. palaioo] as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed [Gr. allasso]: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”

Here we see the duration of this current earth and the whole span of time outlined from the beginning till the end. This corresponds with the current creation around us. It describes the forming of the earth (which was originally perfect), followed by the gradual decay after the Fall (because of the bondage of corruption), and its final replacement at the end to a new glorified eternal incorrupt status.

The two words that are used in the New Testament to describe the start and finish of this current temporal state of time are archē meaning “beginning” and telos meaning “end.” They are the antithesis of each other. The word archē basically means the origin or the commencement. The word telos means the termination, completion or that by which a thing is finished. Notably, the Bible continually relates this phrase “the end” [Gr. telos] to the second coming. The Lord’s return is shown to usher in the completion of this age and of time.

Scripture constantly shows the creation of this earth and the beginning of this world to be the beginning of this age. Likewise, the end of this world and the regeneration of this earth is repeatedly shown to correspond with the end of this age. Time and history find themselves sandwiched in between these two great events. Simply put: “this age” refers to “time” and “the age to come” or the “hereafter” refers to “eternity.”

This corrupt earth is not going to last forever. It has an expiration date. You will discover that it is the glorious return of Jesus Christ.

Scripture constantly shows the creation of this earth and the beginning of this world to be the beginning of this age. Likewise, the end of this world and the regeneration of this earth is repeatedly shown to correspond with the end of this age. Time and history find themselves sandwiched in between these two great events.

Genesis is a record of the beginning of ALL things in heaven and earth. Including the serpent whom God says has a beginning in creation of mankind along with everything else that God created in six days. The serpent that God says "was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made". God, from before creation had provided Himself to be the answer for the problem of sin and death through sin that man would bring into creation through fleshly desires enticed in them through the subtilty of the serpent, called Satan.

Colossians 1:16-17 (KJV) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Human emotions must be experienced to be understood. As long as man obeyed God and did not eat of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would never have known sorrow, pain, suffering or death/evil, but they also would never have known all that is good or know about love, how to receive and to give love. This explains why God allowed man's heart to be tempted by allowing the serpent (Satan) to deceive them into believing things they had no knowledge of. That's how lust/pride developed, coming from within the mind/heart of man. The power of suggestion, especially in innocence was too great to be resisted, so man became of the same nature as that of the serpent, cunning, and sly learning deception and soon knowing how they too would become liars and murderers.

But by the grace of God, man would also now know of the love that God has for man. The act of shedding the blood of animals to cover their nakedness which now brought man shame is symbolic of the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world to offer forgiveness and everlasting life to all who would trust and believe on Him.

The question remains, did God create Satan, or is he the product of the fallen mind and heart of mankind? God credits Himself with forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil. But with the darkness and evil God also pours down His righteousness unto the earth, bringing salvation together with the darkness and evil.

Isaiah 45:7-8 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

This is why I believe the darkness that was before God spoke light into the darkness is a metaphor for evil that would be called Satan, the great dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world. Through this murderer and father of lies man would receive knowledge of evil, but through God who is greater in power man would also learn of forgiveness and love through the Redeemer who gave His life to save His people so that God's glorious creation would be forever and ever for whosoever believes on Him.

A truer statement could never be said of Satan and fallen mankind:

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[rwb]

More false teaching! Satan was an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16), was at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13), he protected "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14), he was created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15).

King of Tyrus was not so. Adam was not so. Cain was not so.



Not true! Your greatest enemy is not we Bible believing Christians, it the Word of God. It forbids your error.

Isaiah 14:12-17 continues, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning [Heb. hêylêl bênor shachar shining one (or the morning star) son of the dawn]! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?”

Ezekiel 28:12-19: “Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Revelation 12:1-4 shows Satan and his devils being eternally evicted from heaven. Interestingly the demonic angels are depicted as “stars.” It reads: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ... And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Your doctrine comes from believing folklore/fables that many biblical scholars believe originate from the teaching and writings of Enoch.

​

 

[TribulationSigns]

More false teaching! Satan was an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16), was at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13), he protected "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14), he was created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15).

Typical traditonal teaching from your favorite Sunday School teacher.

King of Tyrus was not so. Adam was not so. Cain was not so.

LOL. That is the typical church tradition teaching that “Lucifer” is Satan, even though the Bible itself never plainly teaches that doctrine. People repeat what they learned from Sunday school, commentaries, and tradition instead of carefully examining the Scriptures.

Ezekiel 28 is speaking symbolically about man in his exalted state and fall into sin. The description matches Adam far more than some fallen angel theory. Adam was in Eden, the garden of God. Adam was created perfect until iniquity was found in him. Adam was placed in God’s holy dwelling and lost his position through disobedience.

The passage never says “Satan was once a holy angel named Lucifer.” That idea is read into the text by tradition. The word “Lucifer” itself only appears once in Isaiah 14:12 in the KJV and refers to the king of Babylon in the context.

You need to stop allowing church tradition to interpret Scripture for you and start letting the Word of God speak for itself.

Not true! Your greatest enemy is not we Bible believing Christians, it the Word of God. It forbids your error.

Gal 4:16
(16) Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Isaiah 14:12-17 continues, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning [Heb. hêylêl bênor shachar shining one (or the morning star) son of the dawn]! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?”

Allow me to teach you what God actually says:

The Lucifer that weakens or discomfits the nations is the MESSENGER of the church who has the spirit of Antichrist to usurp God's Word and rule by his own means. He is the SINFUL MAN, or as 2nd Thessalonians calls him, the man of lawlessness. The ruler who doesn't obey God's law becasue he has the spirit of disobedience. God did not talk about favorite angel as you think!

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4

• "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
• Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

A falling away or separation "from" the truth of God's law to believe Satan's lies concerning what God said. Just as Adam and Eve did in the garden! Here is your Lucifer or falling star. The name Lucifer applies to the man who sins. The man not of righteousness, but of sin. The messenger (not your precious angel) of the kingdom of heaven who has this spirit of disobedience to believe whatever he wants. You've all seen the Pastors and Ministers of the church who have gone astray teaching for doctrines of God the doctrines of men. This is no new thing.

Ezekiel 28:12-19: “Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

Ahem...
It was through the corporate head of mankind (Adam) that we all started out in God's likeness of being created without sin, but man soon lost it. Mankind and his particular dilemma is summed up in the portrait of King Tyrus.

Ezekiel 28:14-15

• " Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
• Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

King Tyrus is a representation of mankind as he was created in the righteous likeness of God (without sin) and perfect, and remained that way in God's paradise until the day that he committed iniquity. God did NOT talk about angel in physical heaven. MAN! Right here on Earth! It was sin that brought death and the end to Adam/Mankind's perfection/righteousness in communion with God, and it can only be through rebirth from that dead that he can have that communion and creation image restored.

Genesis 1:27

• "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

If by "created" God had meant only believers, then Adam and Eve would have never sinned unto death and fallen from communion with God. Not "angels". Moreover, by God saying male and female He created THEM, it's clear God is speaking about the creation of mankind, not a specific angel beings! Duh! As all have their genesis in Adam. It is also clear that mankind couldn't retain that perfection in which God said was good, so Adam was not created saved/a believer. It was sinlessness in which he was created. Thus God in referring to Adam couldn't be talking about creating a believer because believers don't fall unto death. He may have been created elect, but not a believer because he fell and death was the result.

Genesis 2:17

• "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

And die mankind did! God created them in His image, saw that all that He created was good, but warned the day they disobeyed (that iniquity/lawnessness was found in them) would be the day they would cease being righteous/perfect/lawful and come under sentence of death. Thus Adam and Eve were not created as eternal believers, they could really only be that in regeneration after the fall Only then would they be brought permanently back into the image of God. The same way we (mankind through him) is. When created, man and woman were in the image of God, they were perfect and thus worthy to be in God's Paradise of Eden until the day that they sinned. It was by that sin that mankind lost the image or likeness of God. In losing it, they were then forbidden to remain in the Paradise of God. They were cast out by their iniquity.

(Contiune to next post)

 

[TribulationSigns]

(Continue from previous post)

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

I already explained my position on Job 1:6–12. The problem is that you are reading church tradition into the passage instead of asking what the text actually means.

Who are the “sons of God”? Are they believers belonging to God, or angels casually roaming around heaven? How do God’s people present themselves before the Lord? And how did Satan come among them?

What does “going to and fro in the earth, and walking up and down in it” mean spiritually? These are the questions you should be examining instead of automatically assuming this is about Satan physically traveling into heaven after supposedly being cast out.

If you refuse to consider these things and only repeat traditional teaching, then there is nothing more for me to explain. Search the Scriptures carefully instead of relying on inherited doctrines.

Revelation 12:1-4 shows Satan and his devils being eternally evicted from heaven. Interestingly the demonic angels are depicted as “stars.” It reads: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ... And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

So Satan was supposedly eternally cast out of literal heaven… yet somehow casually returned back to heaven again in Job? LOL. That is the kind of confusion tradition creates when people force literalism into symbolic passages without spiritual understanding.

And you still cannot explain Revelation properly. What does the dragon’s tail signify? How did he draw a third part of the stars of heaven? What is the “third part”? Who are the “stars”? And what “heaven” is this where the woman dwells? Literal outer space? Seriously? LOL.

People keep repeating popular church theories but cannot define the symbols the Bible itself uses. Scripture interprets Scripture — not imagination, movies, or Sunday school tradition.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

What “heaven” is it exactly? Do you even know what the name Michael means before assuming this is about heavenly superhero fighting in outer space?

What place in heaven was Satan supposedly cast out from? And what does “cast out into the earth” actually mean spiritually? Literal dirt and rocks? Or something deeper in the biblical language?

And who are “his angels” — or messengers — that were cast out with him? Cast out of what heaven exactly? You quote Revelation 12:7–9, but quoting verses is not the same thing as understanding the symbols and spiritual meaning behind them.

Too many people read apocalyptic symbolism like a Hollywood action movie instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL!!!

LOL!!!!!

No, it is YOU who is being deceived by your own false doctrine.

Says the false teacher who tries to claim that a created spirit being named Satan, created spirit beings called demons (or devils), and created spirit beings called angels don't exist! LOL!!!!!!

As if anyone should take you seriously at all when you believe extreme nonsense like that. No. Think again.

It is YOU who are forcing church tradition and human imagination into the Word of God instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture.

LOL!!! Keep the laughs coming.

Just because Job 38 speaks about creation does not automatically mean “morning stars” are angelic beings before Adam.

Who else was there and singing for joy while God was creating the earth? If you actually understood that there are such thing as angels, then you should have no trouble understanding who the morning stars represent, but of course you're not going to see that when you don't even believe they exist.

That pathetic assumption comes from Sunday school theology, not from the clear testimony of God’s Word. Here is your biblical lesson:

LOL!!!!!!! As if you could ever teach me anything? You couldn't be more delusional if you tried. No one who denies the existence of Satan, demons and angels can teach me anything.

Who does Scripture identify as the Morning Star? Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:16
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Yes, He is THE Morning Star. Sure. This proves nothing in relation to what we're talking about. Is this all you have? The passage in Job 38 refers to mulitiple morning stars, not just one.

And who receives His nature and kingdom? His saints. Not angels!

Rev 2:26-29
(26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
(27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
(28) And I will give him the morning star.
(29) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

See? Christ gives the morning star to those who overcome. Not pre-adam angels as you think! Hello??

HELLO??? Is anyone home? We're talking about morning stars who were singing for joy and existed while God was creating the earth? Hello?? Hello?? Beuller? Beuller? Did you forget the timing of what we're talking about here?

The “morning stars” in Job 38:7 rejoicing over the cornerstone points to the spiritual foundation and congregation of God’s kingdom, not some mythical pre-Adamic race of celestial creatures invented by speculative theology based on coloring papers your Sunday School teacher gave you to draw on.

Why are you completely ignoring the context of the verse? The timing of it relates to when God was creating the earth. There were no humans yet when God began creating the earth. Why do you ignore context? Why do you prefer to instead make things up in your imagination than to pay attention to the context of scripture?

The cornerstone throughout Scripture points to Christ and His spiritual house, which is the spiritual congregation of Israel where all morning stars (chosen elect from the Old and New Testament) are found at, not to created celestial beings dancing in outer space over Earth without form and void. Do you realize that God and His Kingdom, where the true cornerstone sits, transcends time? He and His morning stars as eternal - outside of the limitations of past, present and future that govern creation. Selah!

Like you, MANY are so obsessed with proving the existence of pre-human angelic civilizations because they need Satan to fit into their tradition and interpretation. But Scripture never says Satan had to be created before Adam in order to appear in the garden. People are reading assumptions into the text instead of drawing truth out of it. This is why you do not understand exactly what spirit of Satan is. How it begun to exist inside Eve when she lusted after the fruit. Or even what his tail represents in Revelation 12:4 that drew the third part of the stars of heaven. Do you even know what these stars are? What heaven is this? You still have many things to learn.

Beware of those who are always running to Greek philosophy, mystical speculation, and church tradition while neglecting spiritual discernment. They see “stars” or "angels" and immediately imagine celestial beings because their minds are earthly and carnal. But the Bible constantly uses symbolic language for human rulers, messengers, and saints of the congregation, the kingdom of heaven.

Stop forcing your imagination into God’s Word. Let Scripture define Scripture. Christ is the true Morning Star, and His faithful saints shine with Him in His kingdom. Full Stop! Where is your biblical proof of exactly how the morning stars must be your imagination of angels with feathered wings?

Like Christ said... "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". Spiritual discernment by the Spirit of God through the Word of God.

@rwb

Such foolishness. All those words to say nothing just because you refuse to look at the actual context of Job 38. Unbelievable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of the six days of creation when the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea and ALL that is in them.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Here you once again give us a demonstration of your opinions without proving from the Bible what you allege. Satan is indeed the enemy of mankind, desiring to deceive them. How could he have already fallen and rebelled against God before the creation man whom he deceived? Notice when Satan was cursed by God AFTER he beguiled the woman, causing her to disobey God with Adam who was with her, bringing sin and death through sin into creation.

Genesis 3:14-15 (KJV) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

When do you believe that Satan was created in relation to when the earth was created? Do you believe he was created before God started creating the earth or while God was creating the earth?

Tell me why you think Satan will be eternally tormented if all he does is what God created him to do? Why would he be punished for fulfilling God's purpose for him?

Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What “heaven” is it exactly? Do you even know what the name Michael means before assuming this is about heavenly superhero fighting in outer space?

LOL!!! More nonsense. Michael is the archangel and is one of the chief princes. You'd know that if you actually read your Bible without your Wacky Nonsense Goggles on.

Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

If I recall correctly, you believe that Michael is Jesus. But, Jesus is not an archangel and Jesus would not be afraid to bring "a reviling accusation" against the devil while instead saying "The Lord rebuke you!". Jesus is also not just "one of the chief princes".

What place in heaven was Satan supposedly cast out from?

The place where he accused believers before God. He was cast out and no longer able to accuse believers before God long ago around the time of Christ's resurrection. After Satan and his angels were cast out, Jesus ascended to heaven. Satan no longer had any basis for accusing anyone before God with Jesus Our Advocate there. He no longer could make any accusation against believers after that. Paul asked in Romans 8:33 "Who shall bring a charge against God's elect?" with the implied answer being "No one". Including Satan. And that's because the blood of Jesus covers the sins of unbelievers so Satan can't accuse us of things that we have been forgiven for.

 

[WPM]

LOL. That is the typical church tradition teaching that “Lucifer” is Satan, even though the Bible itself never plainly teaches that doctrine. People repeat what they learned from Sunday school, commentaries, and tradition instead of carefully examining the Scriptures.

Ezekiel 28 is speaking symbolically about man in his exalted state and fall into sin. The description matches Adam far more than some fallen angel theory. Adam was in Eden, the garden of God. Adam was created perfect until iniquity was found in him. Adam was placed in God’s holy dwelling and lost his position through disobedience.

The passage never says “Satan was once a holy angel named Lucifer.” That idea is read into the text by tradition. The word “Lucifer” itself only appears once in Isaiah 14:12 in the KJV and refers to the king of Babylon in the context.

You need to stop allowing church tradition to interpret Scripture for you and start letting the Word of God speak for itself.

When did the king of Babylon fall from heaven? Honestly!

Talk about spiritualization gone crazy. That is your mindset. Tony Warren has planted those Origenistic seeds in you. Thankfully, this error was quickly banished from the early church. It is only for the gullible.

Who else holds the nonsense you, Tony and rwb teach in Church history?

 

[WPM]

The Lucifer that weakens or discomfits the nations is the MESSENGER of the church who has the spirit of Antichrist to usurp God's Word and rule by his own means. He is the SINFUL MAN, or as 2nd Thessalonians calls him, the man of lawlessness. The ruler who doesn't obey God's law becasue he has the spirit of disobedience. God did not talk about favorite angel as you think!

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4

• "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
• Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

A falling away or separation "from" the truth of God's law to believe Satan's lies concerning what God said. Just as Adam and Eve did in the garden! Here is your Lucifer or falling star. The name Lucifer applies to the man who sins. The man not of righteousness, but of sin. The messenger (not your precious angel) of the kingdom of heaven who has this spirit of disobedience to believe whatever he wants. You've all seen the Pastors and Ministers of the church who have gone astray teaching for doctrines of God the doctrines of men. This is no new thing.



Ahem...
It was through the corporate head of mankind (Adam) that we all started out in God's likeness of being created without sin, but man soon lost it. Mankind and his particular dilemma is summed up in the portrait of King Tyrus.

Ezekiel 28:14-15

• " Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
• Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

King Tyrus is a representation of mankind as he was created in the righteous likeness of God (without sin) and perfect, and remained that way in God's paradise until the day that he committed iniquity. God did NOT talk about angel in physical heaven. MAN! Right here on Earth! It was sin that brought death and the end to Adam/Mankind's perfection/righteousness in communion with God, and it can only be through rebirth from that dead that he can have that communion and creation image restored.

Genesis 1:27

• "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

If by "created" God had meant only believers, then Adam and Eve would have never sinned unto death and fallen from communion with God. Not "angels". Moreover, by God saying male and female He created THEM, it's clear God is speaking about the creation of mankind, not a specific angel beings! Duh! As all have their genesis in Adam. It is also clear that mankind couldn't retain that perfection in which God said was good, so Adam was not created saved/a believer. It was sinlessness in which he was created. Thus God in referring to Adam couldn't be talking about creating a believer because believers don't fall unto death. He may have been created elect, but not a believer because he fell and death was the result.

Genesis 2:17

• "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

And die mankind did! God created them in His image, saw that all that He created was good, but warned the day they disobeyed (that iniquity/lawnessness was found in them) would be the day they would cease being righteous/perfect/lawful and come under sentence of death. Thus Adam and Eve were not created as eternal believers, they could really only be that in regeneration after the fall Only then would they be brought permanently back into the image of God. The same way we (mankind through him) is. When created, man and woman were in the image of God, they were perfect and thus worthy to be in God's Paradise of Eden until the day that they sinned. It was by that sin that mankind lost the image or likeness of God. In losing it, they were then forbidden to remain in the Paradise of God. They were cast out by their iniquity.

(Contiune to next post)

• Was the king of Tyrus real?
• How was he "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?

What you are attributing to him never happened. To be the symbol, he must fulfil what the sacred text applies to him. But it does not fit. Only Satan fulfils this.

• Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
• Was he at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
• Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
• Was he created
• Do you not believe in the total depravity of man anymore

Only Satan fulfills this.

 

[WPM]

Okay, I will jump in to add something for all readers.

This following Scripture should put to bed this leaky doctrine/myth of fallen angels but unfortunately it is not for everyone to see. That which was a murderer and liar from the beginning couldn't possibly fall from grace prior to the beginning could it, or it wouldn't be a beginning?
John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Please understand that:

1. Satan was not created "before the Creation."
2. Satan was not created on Day one.
3. Satan was not created on Day two.
4. Satan was not created on Day three.
5. Satan was not created on Day four
6. Satan was not created on Day five
7. Satan was not created on Day six
8. And Satan was not created, BY GOD, on Day seven when God rested.

So, exactly when was Satan's beginning? How did the Spirit of Disobedience appears in mankind?

God cannot lie, while the Devil was a liar from the beginning, even as God says man goes astray as soon as he is born speaking lies! For example, from the beginning also! See any correlation there between the Devil and unsaved man? Selah!

Psalms 58:3-4

• "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
• Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;"

Here is your Serpent, according to the unadulterated word of God. Here is your liar from the beginning, according to the authoritative word of God. Here is that spirit we are warned not to believe. It is man.

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
• because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Who was a murderer and liar from the beginning? Cain, a man, with the spirit of disobedience? Carnal man, with a spirit he was born with? Yes, but not a angelic super being that possessed him later on. He got this spirit from his mother, Eve, who was disobedience when she was deceived herself by her own spirit which is called, guess what? Satan, that old serpent! Not physical snake that she talked with. She was deceived herself with her own thoughts, temptation and was in rebellion even before she took the bite! This was how Satan begun! God did not create that spirit in her! Selah!

Satan was NEVER in the light of God's Holy Heaven, NEVER a son of God, NEVER was a messenger of Truth, and NEVER a top/chief/arch angel in heaven controlling an army of rebellious spirits against God. NEVER! The light (which God is) cannot dwell with darkness. There is NO darkness in heaven, which necessarily means there is was no Satan there, as he is the epitome of darkness and the Father of lies "from the beginning."

Revelation 22:5

• "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

There was NEVER any night in the place where we will sit with Christ in that heaven, there was never any need for a candle, nor for the light of sun because the Lord God is the light of heaven wherein is no darkness, and always has been, even before the creation. No murderer from the beginning was dwelling there with Him.

The fly in that ointment is that Satan was a murderous, evil and wicked being from the very beginning. That is to say, before there was a the fall of Adam and Eve and before there was a congregation. He was vile, despicable snake right in the garden of Eden when there were only two people in the world, because he is the spirit of evil. If he was not a Son of God in the garden of Eden, how then did he become one in the episode of Job? He was not a angel jumping back and forth from being a snake in the garden on earth and being a angel presenting himself before God in Holy Heaven AGAIN after being kicked out to discuss about Job? Or going back into heaven to fight war with powerful angel called "Michael" before God. HUH!?!

Again:

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

God's word is pure, consistent, true, and has harmony and conformity with itself. When it doesn't, you should know that what's being said is His word is not true. Satan was a adversary spirit within Even when she was tempted by her own thoughts and lusts. How then, "years Later with the episode of Job," was he a "son of God who hadn't fallen yet? Does that really make any sense, or is that a rationalization and justification for those who can't fit him into God's Holy heaven any other way? Moreover, what fellowship has God with the Lord with Satan?

2nd Corinthians 6:14b-15a

• "...for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
• And what concord hath Christ with Belial?..."

I would say none, how about any of you? So Satan was not communing with God in the light of Heaven. Our Lord has no concord with Satan? It's like mixing light with darkness, and it can't be done because either the light will become darker or the dark become lighter. Satan is darkness, not light, so what communion has this wicked agent of darkness with God's holy heaven which is only light? The "correct" answer is...NONE! Therefore, the idea of Satan being in physical Holy Heaven where God is at ANY TIME is absurd!

The spirit of Satan began in the rebellion of Eve. It was the spirit of disobedience and deception working within her that led her to reject God’s command, and Adam followed in the same rebellion. That sinful spirit passed down to all their descendants, including us. We are all born in sin, speaking lies and walking according to the desires of the flesh apart from God.

This is why Jesus Christ came — to set His people free from the spirit of sin, deception, and death. The physical miracles He performed during His earthly ministry were not merely acts of compassion, but signs representing the greater spiritual deliverance He came to accomplish through the Gospel and the Kingdom of God.

So, the devil, is now Cain? LOL. Talk about delusional! In an earlier post you had him as Adam. LOL.

You guys are growing more and more ridiculous by the post. No one takes you and your teacher Tony serious. You are cranks.

I showed you "the beginning" in Scripture relates to the formation of the creation. You ducked around that. Well, hello, Cain was not found then. He was born later. Yet, the real demonic Satan is alive and kicking and tempting a perfect Adam and Eve in the Garden (before the Fall and before Cain). You are tying yourself in knots with your convoluted nonsense.