Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

[bbyrd009]

I would be interested in the Christians response?

as it appears Stranger is about to reinforce there, scapegoats are useful, and serve a purpose quite similar to the "skin" given Adam and Eve. And as i am sure becomes more apparent upon reading his post, it does little good to...disabuse people of scapegoats before they are ready, with apologies to Stranger here.

 

[bbyrd009]

@Stranger didn’t get the meaning of this comment. The actual books and letters where written with first audience listeners in mind. They were later recorded, being written into a culture foreign to ours today, though for our learning. We need to understand the language, especially how words were used and particularly their worldview at the time.

the comment is subject to interpretation, and not as clear as it might be in any case. I didn't really understand it like you mean it at first read either.

i agree with you in the middle there, but tbh i don't believe that i need to learn koine greek or aramaic to understand spiritual lessons, and in fact watching little kids interacting might do as well or better. Although granted, some wisdom might surely be gained from that knowledge, don't get me wrong, imo understanding that one's logic needs to be suspended is likely more fruitful.

And we even have a parable or two on the matter, something noticeably absent, and arguably even parabled against, in your end pov there

 

[bbyrd009]

It is fine because the verses do support the existence of Satan.

and they also personify him so that you have a scapegoat to use if you need it, see.

 

[bbyrd009]

If the translators you speak of were of my faith, then they would not be denying that Satan is being spoken of.

yet we have plenty of Bible about scribes, don't we? So now go find one praising them as you are, and we can proceed

 

[bbyrd009]

Did the Holy Spirit understand the language and the world view when He was busy writing the Scriptures?

amen, and also did the Spirit maybe set you up so as to allow you to perceive yourself as...not one of "them?" So that Isaiah's prophecy is fulfilled? Iow pride is often being appealed to, so that the prideful might have a place to perceive from in these parables, and thus be revealed

hopefully it is understood that i was, am a proud guy, ok, and this understanding was hard won

 

[bbyrd009]

I would be interested in the Christians response?

"I would be interested in hearing from the Wide Path on this," lol. I mean, what do we got now, like billions of Christians, right, Christians thanking God for touchdowns and home runs now, lol. Christian rock stars.

 

[bbyrd009]

Two people in particular who have had this, I trust completely with this, as neither would DARE to make up stuff about Jesus, and both I have known for more than 10 years.

and i don't mean to imply that they are wrong, or that you should not listen to them, nothing like that, ok; but it might be seen that an explanation is given to fit your understanding at the time, and later the explanation becomes less relevant, and is superseded by a better explanation. When the song "Evidence" came out, particularly, i just became convicted of "Christians. dragging me into court" by these.

See, if you are envisioning a courtroom, as Scripture might even be interpreted as encouraging you to do, it is because you are still legal-minded, under the law, awaiting some verdict or something, when the verdict has already been given.

 

[face2face]

i agree with you in the middle there, but tbh i don't believe that i need to learn koine greek or aramaic to understand spiritual lessons, and in fact watching little kids interacting might do as well or better. Although granted, some wisdom might surely be gained from that knowledge, don't get me wrong, imo understanding that one's logic needs to be suspended is likely more fruitful.

And we even have a parable or two on the matter, something noticeably absent, and arguably even parabled against, in your end pov there

Agree.
F2F

 

[pia]

I asked myself the other day "how will Christians respond to Jesus Christ when he informs them there was no supernatural evil being?

So you are taking that as a Truth ? Found this one which I wanted to ask you about......
Paul states that we don't fight against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in the Heavenly places, and that he doesn't want us to be ignorant of the enemies devices........That certainly seems to say otherwise.
He also writes that God has used us to reveal His manifold Wisdom to those principalities and powers...
Can you equate that with your position ? Please don't take this as a 'dig' at you, it is not....I have never seen a devil or satan, I simply cannot say that I KNOW this, so I am ever learning, and am interested in how you see this ? Thank you...

 

[face2face]

So you are taking that as a Truth ? Found this one which I wanted to ask you about......
Paul states that we don't fight against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in the Heavenly places, and that he doesn't want us to be ignorant of the enemies devices........That certainly seems to say otherwise.
He also writes that God has used us to reveal His manifold Wisdom to those principalities and powers...
Can you equate that with your position ? Please don't take this as a 'dig' at you, it is not....I have never seen a devil or satan, I simply cannot say that I KNOW this, so I am ever learning, and am interested in how you see this ? Thank you...

Okay so I assume the phrase "Heavenly Places" you believe to be in Heaven i.e. God's dwelling place?

Can you see how Heavenly Places can be symbolic of something else? Something relevent to the text and the time in which Paul preached?

Leave it with you.

F2F

 

[pia]

well, imo you were spared a huge lesson because of your heart, that being that churches re-lay the foundation, over and over, sin and death, death and sin, because they are mostly all death-cults, waiting to literally die to be with the Lord.

imo.

Hi there 'bbyrd' ..... thank you so very much for all the time you spent putting all that together for me, and I am with you....Mostly though I just get people upset at me if I even suggest that people have 'corrupted' the use of the Bible, and that because of the time differences, in when some of it was written and the various people who decided which was which and the translators etc... I am amazed that other Christians take it so seriously they'd die to protect it, even when it is very clear that God could not have 'penned' it...As an example there are four different accounts of what happened resurrection morning....So which one did God 'write' or inspire ? All four can't be right, so there is a huge problem already, and the Old Testament, good Lord, I could go on for hours on that. No wonder God is quoted as saying that His Name was being blasphemed all the day long...People do get confused on that also, Gods name.....it was never meant to be as we refer to as a 'first' name....With God it is more the way it was in older times. A man was known by his 'name', his reputation...'This man has a good name' (f.ex.) meant he was trustworthy and usually a 'good' man. So no wonder God wasn't happy with all the things they accused Him of, not KNOWING Him.....
Having said all that though, I still find such treasures of Truth in the Bible, and Jesus often uses the Bible for me now, I guess as my questions now, mostly pertain to what has been written.....I might actually be better off, just forgetting all that and just go on, and not engage those who are already converted but go to those who are not, and just speak to them normally, not just quoting scriptures at them, which they have no understanding of anyway...
Thanks again 'bbyrd' I truly appreciate the time you took with all of this, and it is something I truly believe we need to get set straight, and we can only do that by asking Him to reveal the Truth to us, but most won't even think of doing that
Peace and joy in Him Pia

 

[pia]

ha, there is no place called hell with flames, ok,

I must say I have trouble believing this also, but I have also seen a lot of testimonies from other peoples near death experiences....One was a brain surgeon, who had not been a believer...he was shown a terrible place, he said.....Many others too....Me however, it was just a pitch blackness with zero sound, that was frightening enough.....it is so hard to understand all the differences...One thing though which I have not seen different in all the accounts I have seen, and that is the Love..

 

[pia]

"pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name."

Thanks, got a nice big belly laugh here

 

[pia]

The law has been fulfilled

This is exactly what these people saw though, the two I know.....However they both saw other people standing in front of a tall bench like structure, and both got the truth, of how bad it is for others, when we insist on judging them.
They were both aware that they were safe in Christ...

 

[pia]

ha amen. We have some clues; you will of course not be "you" any longer, at least in a sense, because you would have had to die to self to even attain this vision, right? You get a new name, the whole bit, yes? See the sales job inherent in suggesting that your "self" can go to heaven after you die, as opposed to participating in the kingdom of heaven right beside yourself by denying or dying to yourself.

That is certainly right ! No part of us can survive, only that which we have already allowed the Lord to change into His 'image' ( within us )....

 

[pia]

without further offending your sensibilities than i already have lol

Ha, ha...You have not offended me one bit...I welcome your writings.....
In regard to what else you wrote above, I'm sorry I can't quite see that the two are the same...I was asking about a man, before Jesus death and before the Holy spirit was given, having been able to receive revelation from above as to who Jesus actually was....How would that have been possible ? And what did it mean " Have you ( Jesus ) come to torment us BEFORE our time."........Like you I need to pray about this.. I really think it's about time I started seeking the Lord about this matter...I haven't really wanted to before..
Thanks a whole bunch for everything you have written in these posts, it's terrific.... A blessing...

 

[pia]

and i don't mean to imply that they are wrong, or that you should not listen to them, nothing like that, ok; but it might be seen that an explanation is given to fit your understanding at the time, and later the explanation becomes less relevant, and is superseded by a better explanation. When the song "Evidence" came out, particularly, i just became convicted of "Christians. dragging me into court" by these.

See, if you are envisioning a courtroom, as Scripture might even be interpreted as encouraging you to do, it is because you are still legal-minded, under the law, awaiting some verdict or something, when the verdict has already been given.

Both of those people were well aware of the law being fulfilled in Christ...What they saw was their own freedom, but what had to be done to those who were under 'accusations' by other humans or perhaps even fallen ones ???

 

[pia]

Cain was a false accuser toward Abel his brother

I am not aware of this....When or what did
Cain accuse his brother of ?

 

[pia]

Okay so I assume the phrase "Heavenly Places" you believe to be in Heaven i.e. God's dwelling place?

Can you see how Heavenly Places can be symbolic of something else? Something relevent to the text and the time in which Paul preached?

Leave it with you.

F2F

I'm really not sure on that......What about the statement that we don't fight against flesh and blood ?

 

[face2face]

I'm really not sure on that......What about the statement that we don't fight against flesh and blood ?

That's right...it's spiritual wickedness...who do you think qualified?