Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

[pia]

And wanting Jesus to leave? Shouldn't they be overjoyed, and begging Him to stay

Ahh yes,as much as things change they stay the same ! I am overjoyed that you were able to get out of that nightmare, which of course it wouldn't have to be, if medical people and governments stopped passing those problems over to Organized Crime imo....
I will surely take the time and really press into Jesus, and ask for revelation on this matter, if it is a real thing or to understood as a metaphor somehow.
Can't thank you enough for the very precise responses you have given me in these posts you have written to me, and for all the time it must have taken you.....THANK YOU !

 

[pia]

well, staying within that analogy, imo what had to be done was to stop accusing them, or stop listening to the accusations, and dismiss court, or recognize that court has been dismissed, and then give them the Good News. But of course we are all mired in law, swimming in it, we are no different from the Israelites, because human nature has not changed, until a human changes their nature, right. It's just so much easier to dial 911 than to be responsible imo. I'm talking for like cats in trees or whatever there, for most people, although i can't imagine what i would be calling 911 for myself.

As I have understood it, we who believe and receive the reconciliation to God and the restoration of His Life in us are 100% safe in Christ...But when an accusation goes up before God, He is bound to tend to it, if they are not safe in Christ.
This is not something I got from Jesus , but have accepted through other Christians, so of course it could be wrong...But the two people who did see this, are people I do trust completely, not to ever dare make up a thing like that...both are very aware of having to pass before Jesus, before entering the final stage in order to get 'there', wherever 'there' is ?
Yes most are bound up in all sorts of self imposed laws, and that truly is s pity......Doesn't Paul write something about those who revert to the law, has made Jesus' sacrifice in vain for themselves ? Not good.....

 

[pia]

another valid perspective here is, who told one that anything had to be done for these people? Outside of "feed my sheep" iow. Now if one is led to provide some services to people in need then i am all for it, don't get me wrong, but we are a codependent nation of people now, rather than being interdependent, and i'm sure you have had some experience with "helping people?" Iow JW's coming to your door are as legitimate a helper in this sense as any one attempting to alleviate the spiritual suffering of anyone else. Of course the dynamic is different if someone is asking, rather than being braced, but the point is that people also often take advantage, and "service" can easily become codependent enabling, or essentially "works of the law," people doing things to please God instead of actually serve others.

Yes, I have seen that a lot also, and truly it does no good unless it is from a right motive.....Doing these 'works' in order to get God to accept us, is nonsense.....But once accepted by Him, one can hardly turn ones back, on anyone in need....
But all of us I am sure, if we have attended fellowships, get kind of sucked into that belief, that NOW we have to really show God, either by doing tons and tons of studying or doing many works, not from a heart of love, but to 'earn' the precious GIFT we have been given.....

 

[pia]

ya, if he answers google will be edified too lol
When or what did Cain accuse his brother of ? - Google Search

but also in a diff pov murder is the ultimate accusation i guess right.
Of course we are both Cain and Abel, and that is what the parable is really about; the part of us that kills the other part so as to get along in the world

Well that is certainly a very different way of looking at it...so may I ask, do you see the Bible as only dealing with physical things? Do you believe that there is a spirit realm ? I read the account of Cain and Abel yesterday and can only see that Cain talked with his brother and then killed him....I had always assumed he did it our of jealousy ?

 

[pia]

ha, but once you see yourself as a person who prefers to plow their own ground, rather than shepherd others, you realize you already know what they talked about, imo. If only people were sheep, right? Shepherding people is more akin to herding cats

Very good point bbyrd...

 

[bbyrd009]

Exactly ! I have surely had much more action with people I have met, who were at the 'lower' end of our society. Ones who may have heard about religious things and rejected them. But speak to them normally and speak of His unconditional Love, and they actually do listen, or at least most of the ones I have encountered...

i gradually went from active proselytizing (the "i found it!" campaign, etc) to doing what you suggest, to finally not talking about religion at all, and just trying to demonstrate unconditional love as best i could. I wouldn't condemn any of them now, as i guess it takes different approaches for different people, but i have noticed now that it is the third one that seems to have the most impact, and generates the most questions.

 

[bbyrd009]

What you wrote seems correct to me, at least with Jesus. Something odd happens when our eyes meet His...We 'see' that He knows absolutely 100% of everything about us....I assume that would be the exact same for everyone...

imo God is not suddenly going to change His demeanor toward a soul just because they have died, and "Who told you that you were naked?" explains Separation from God completely. Iow one will not be separated because they have not been forgiven, but because one cannot accept forgiveness for unrepented sin. One can go and try to forgive someone for an unrepented sin and see.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well that is certainly a very different way of looking at it...so may I ask, do you see the Bible as only dealing with physical things? Do you believe that there is a spirit realm ?

hmm, don't see It dealing with the physical at all, and curious why i gave you that impression now.
i believe the spirit realm is all there really is...and "i'll kill you if you mess with my things" is about spirit, not things.

 

[bbyrd009]

I read the account of Cain and Abel yesterday and can only see that Cain talked with his brother and then killed him....I had always assumed he did it our of jealousy ?

We are all prone to kill our shepherd and plow our own ground, either to get along better in the world, or as believers to improve ourselves so as to be seen as the authority on God, or to please God with our works, and there are prolly other reflections about "sacrifice" that apply too. Shepherding just does not pay near as well, i guess.

my guess is that that "talked" is really "argued," and if you can imagine a successful son being jealous of a father's love toward the son who only found a lost sheep yesterday, and ignoring that you just won a Nobel prize for making an atom bomb or whatever...ya, i guess jealousy fits there too.

 

[bbyrd009]

I will surely take the time and really press into Jesus, and ask for revelation on this matter, if it is a real thing or to understood as a metaphor somehow.

ok, and i would like to say here that i have gotten some revelation on other passages, but not really about that one, so i was just posting possibilities, ok, i do not know. I have been trying to read the Bible logically my whole life, so i am still pretty unfamiliar with some of the symbology. A lot of it is already acknowledged and pretty obvious, while some others are more obscure. "Towns" reps "belief systems," as near as i can tell, something like that, and "possessed people" i am guessing about there ok.

That one person = two people or even three i am pretty sure about, as this theme is repeated throughout Scripture. "Two people" is a still-conflicted person, while "three people" or for that matter "three" period indicates someone who is established, has a "witness," etc. These may also be subject to discussion though, and someone else may have a better perspective there too.

 

[bbyrd009]

Can't thank you enough for the very precise responses you have given me in these posts you have written to me, and for all the time it must have taken you.....THANK YOU !

ha pls i love to plow my own ground lol, but ty. Just hope it isn't all crap lol

 

[bbyrd009]

As I have understood it, we who believe and receive the reconciliation to God and the restoration of His Life in us are 100% safe in Christ...But when an accusation goes up before God, He is bound to tend to it, if they are not safe in Christ.
This is not something I got from Jesus , but have accepted through other Christians, so of course it could be wrong

what i have got recently on that--which is why i repeat it so much right now--is that "Who told you that you were naked?" is all the condemnation one is ever going to get from God, and "Here, have a skin then" is all of the response that God has for sin.

As to the accusation part, that is kind of a different subject, i see improper accusation, that does not follow the remedy for offense that has been laid out for us ("first, go privately to your brother who offends you..."), and then that might be termed "proper accusation," and i'm not sure at what point that might even come before God, meaning that "Accusation going up before God" might universally indicate that an "accuser" is involved, or not, and i don't know, never thought about these. Prolly be a good thread i guess.

i like to set up thought experiments for these; and if i were to come to you as a child of yours that you might consider "not safe in Christ," and accuse one of my siblings that you considered "safe" of murder or something, would you be bound to tend to it? I guess you would, yes, but we can already see how the perceptions would significantly alter the likely "tending," right?

 

[bbyrd009]

But the two people who did see this, are people I do trust completely, not to ever dare make up a thing like that...both are very aware of having to pass before Jesus, before entering the final stage in order to get 'there', wherever 'there' is ?

understand that that might be completely true, or it might only be true in a sense, and we maybe get the explanation that we can comprehend at the time, until we mature or understand better and a better explanation can now be understood. We are plainly told that our works will be judged, after many passages of assurance that works will not save us.

And of course this "judgement" is stated as being "in the future" (or is it? actually, that is an assumption imo), but if you go look the Book does not say that. Don't we judge people by what they do, and not so much by what they say, right now? So i am suspicious of this judgement, tomorrow, tbh, and i suggest that it is at least possible that a literary device is being used whenever "tomorrow" is intimated, to indicate when a seeker has changed their minds, or however you might like to put it; got committed iow.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes most are bound up in all sorts of self imposed laws, and that truly is s pity......Doesn't Paul write something about those who revert to the law, has made Jesus' sacrifice in vain for themselves ? Not good...

ya, unfortunately that describes most people, even believers, as imo it is designed to. As soon as you say "You have to _______" (in order to be "saved" or whatever, anything), you have just admitted to being under the law. imo. We all revert to the law i think, and forget our "first love." Or maybe some people don't, but i sure did

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, I have seen that a lot also, and truly it does no good unless it is from a right motive.....Doing these 'works' in order to get God to accept us, is nonsense.....But once accepted by Him, one can hardly turn ones back, on anyone in need...

ha well there is need and then there is need, i guess. I am conflicted there tbh, and easily get judgemental even when i don't want to. I'm anxious to help an old lady who professes to be too broke to afford an oil change, until i see the car is a Bentley lol. So to speak.

 

[pia]

the third one that seems to have the most impact, and generates the most questions.

Not quite sure what that means, or have I forgotten something again?...

 

[pia]

imo God is not suddenly going to change His demeanor toward a soul just because they have died, and "Who told you that you were naked?" explains Separation from God completely. Iow one will not be separated because they have not been forgiven, but because one cannot accept forgiveness for unrepented sin. One can go and try to forgive someone for an unrepented sin and see.

Believers are no longer naked though....Also we have been given the right to forgive people, as indeed He had..
When someone wrongs me, I try to be as quick as at all possible in forgiving them...they may not know, but God does....Whether other people will forgive that same person is another matter, and if of course the person repents..

 

[pia]

hmm, don't see It dealing with the physical at all, and curious why i gave you that impression now.
i believe the spirit realm is all there really is...and "i'll kill you if you mess with my things" is about spirit, not things.

Oh good, I wasn't sure I had understood you....sorry, there was just so many to reply to yesterday and I had a bunch of things I had to attend to, so I may have skimmed a little over some of the texts...sorry bout that

 

[pia]

ha pls i love to plow my own ground lol, but ty. Just hope it isn't all crap lol

I much prefer this to someone who only posts 50 lines of what I can readily read in my bible.... I also like things which make me think !

 

[pia]

ha well there is need and then there is need, i guess. I am conflicted there tbh, and easily get judgemental even when i don't want to. I'm anxious to help an old lady who professes to be too broke to afford an oil change, until i see the car is a Bentley lol. So to speak.

Ha Ha....Yes of course....I did mean an actual NEED....