Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

[bbyrd009]

Could it be that cancer exists so that I can choose either A or B?
Is God like that?

I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life

so i would say 'yes.' God does not make anyone choose 'life.'

 

[Helen]

This is dualism, not Christianity. Good is not dependent on evil to exist; God is not dependent on the Devil to exist. Evil is the broken/misused form of good, it is not an equal or balancing or necessary force. It is not Yin and Yang

I couldn't understand on which side of the 'issue' you were on, in your answer to @GodsGrace ...

Are you also saying that Satan and his demons do not exist ? Your answer was not clear to me.
I can't speak for GG , but I feel it heavily upon me when anyone down plays the Devil and blows him off as " not existing " ....ad face2face is doing...hence my comment.
Bless you....H

 

[Job]

I woke up this morning saying to myself...

I do that all the time. I wake up talking to myself about God. I wonder how many other people do that?

o

 

[amadeus]

face2face posted:

Baker Encyclopedia of Psychology & Counseling

"In recent years some Christian theologians have attempted to demythologize the Bible’s teaching on demons and demonic involvement in human life or have otherwise characterized it as prescientific, superstitious thinking."

And their purpose was? Were they looking for truth or were they looking for a way that science could get its foot in the door to convince people that all that is of God is a myth. That is what it sounds like to me even if some of those theologians were sincere in their error. Were they not sincerely mistaken to tempt God?

In the following verse, the apostle Paul quotes the book of Job. What does it mean to you @face2face ?

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." I Cor 3:19

However, the New Testament includes more than one hundred references to the existence of demons; it is clear that Jesus taught that demons are real and that they cause a variety of physical and mental disorders.

So the flip here is that illness' were characterised as being a demon because its cause was medically unknown. Medicine has come a long way that the superstition surrounding these disorders is not prevalent today. Only a few confused uninformed Christians hold onto the teaching of "evil spirits" and "mythological creatures".

Medically unknown or not, you have presented nothing here to disprove the existence of evil beings even if they look like or are men. Because something is outside of your personal experience or cannot be tested or proven by "acceptable" scientific methods doe not prove that it does not exist, so why pursue it here? Are you against God?
If not, then what is your purpose? To some as you read, some are already questioning your purpose.

Context is King!
F2F

No, context is not king. The King is either God or it is man. What you are trying to do, [whether you realize it or not] is to streamline God's Way with man's ways. This is effectively what the Israelites wanted to do is asking for a king, and God recognizing what was happening gave them what they wanted:

"And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD." I Sam 8:5-6

"And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them." I Sam 8:7

Whether or the adversary is a separate being called "satan" or it is simply the evil nature of every man without God, does not matter in how we deal with it. Your arguments would bring it all into a medical issue that science through medical doctors should be able to solve. Science has advanced tremendously, but it still has not touched the evil heart of men. Now men would bring scripture into its own theoretical realm to dilute God's purposes.

Jesus dealt with satan or the adversary in a way that science [medicine, medical doctors] cannot . God created everything "very good" [Gen 1:31] in the beginning and men almost immediately began perverting it so that the unlearned could not tell the difference between the "very good" of God and the twisted perversions that men have made from those "very good" things by misusing them.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

The adversary remains, whether we name him satan or we use medical terminology with medical definitions. Too many people already trust their doctors more than they trust God. God is the Healer and He may or may not use men to accomplish His healing purposes. Again I would ask, what ultimately is your purpose in this quest to "demythologize" the Bible? What good can it do? What evil on the other hand is it likely to accomplish? Do you know the difference between "Good" and "Evil"?

Do you want to take God out of the equation even more with your new definitions? Who will that help? Will it bring anyone closer to God? Who is our King, but God if we are believers? Do not each of have a spirit of our own? If our spirit is an evil one could not he or she or it be named a demon without changing the truth? What is your purpose?

The Bible really does not say that are to live by science or by medicine does it?

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. " Rom 1:17

 

[Helen]

Excellent and wise post @amadeus . Well said.

 

[aspen]

I couldn't understand on which side of the 'issue' you were on, in your answer to @GodsGrace ...

Are you also saying that Satan and his demons do not exist ? Your answer was not clear to me.
I can't speak for GG , but I feel it heavily upon me when anyone down plays the Devil and blows him off as " not existing " ....ad face2face is doing...hence my comment.
Bless you....H

I see. The Devil exists, but so do bacteria. And before you think I am downplaying the impact of the devil, just remember how deadly bacteria can be. This being said, I do not believe the devil is my worst enemy; not even close. I am my worst enemy - no one is more ‘out to tempt’ me, or knows how to do so more effectively than myself. The Devil is a mere cautionary tale - sort of like the gutter drunk who ends up killing himself - he is a Testament for how far ego can take you from God.

He is the quintessential false self reigning madly and completely over true self.

I think we use the devil (and snakes for that matter) and anything else we can find to blame our transgression on and it does nothing for us because blame shifting resists repentance. Justifying the path to ruin that we are coursing means we are unlikely to turn back towards God. Adam and Eve never repented - the snake made them do it! Then God sowed them egos out of animals skins for them to hide behind so they could delay death and continue humanity for a time in order for Jesus to lead us back to the Tree of Life, which actually represents himself in the Garden.

 

[pia]

Not sure I understand your comment, BG

Sorry to butt in Aspen but I just wanted to point out to you that God Himself made two parts right from the word go, or rather when He said :" Light BE ! " and Light became ! Not the sun light, as we are told that was not until day 4, but the Light which He separated from the darkness and void which was all about, when The Holy Spirit was hovering over the 'face' of the deep.
At some point it seems , certain members of Gods creation , decided to go their own way, and later got mankind to do likewise..... Away from the true Light and into the realm of darkness.........As you, I have wondered if all types of sickness and diseases could be all the different forms spiritual being may be able to take....There are many varied reports of the many many shapes the 'enemies' of mankind can take, my first thought on this was with the man who was beset by a 'legion' of demons, as if they had been even child size, they could simply not have fit into the man, so they must be able to be very small also....I believe a legion was either 50 or 500, can't recall which, but either way, too many for the size we think them all to be.....
I personally think it best if we concentrate on Jesus, and let Him show and teach us how things really are....

 

[Job]

And their purpose was? Were they looking for truth or were they looking for a way that science could get its foot in the door to convince people that all that is of God is a myth. That is what it sounds like to me even if some of those theologians were sincere in their error. Were they not sincerely mistaken to tempt God?

In the following verse, the apostle Paul quotes the book of Job. What does it mean to you @face2face ?

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." I Cor 3:19



Medically unknown or not, you have presented nothing here to disprove the existence of evil beings even if they look like or are men. Because something is outside of your personal experience or cannot be tested or proven by "acceptable" scientific methods doe not prove that it does not exist, so why pursue it here? Are you against God?
If not, then what is your purpose? To some as you read, some are already questioning your purpose.


No, context is not king. The King is either God or it is man. What you are trying to do, [whether you realize it or not] is to streamline God's Way with man's ways. This is effectively what the Israelites wanted to do is asking for a king, and God recognizing what was happening gave them what they wanted:

"And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD." I Sam 8:5-6

"And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them." I Sam 8:7

Whether or the adversary is a separate being called "satan" or it is simply the evil nature of every man without God, does not matter in how we deal with it. Your arguments would bring it all into a medical issue that science through medical doctors should be able to solve. Science has advanced tremendously, but it still has not touched the evil heart of men. Now men would bring scripture into its own theoretical realm to dilute God's purposes.

Jesus dealt with satan or the adversary in a way that science [medicine, medical doctors] cannot . God created everything "very good" [Gen 1:31] in the beginning and men almost immediately began perverting it so that the unlearned could not tell the difference between the "very good" of God and the twisted perversions that men have made from those "very good" things by misusing them.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

The adversary remains, whether we name him satan or we use medical terminology with medical definitions. Too many people already trust their doctors more than they trust God. God is the Healer and He may or may not use men to accomplish His healing purposes. Again I would ask, what ultimately is your purpose in this quest to "demythologize" the Bible? What good can it do? What evil on the other hand is it likely to accomplish? Do you know the difference between "Good" and "Evil"?

Do you want to take God out of the equation even more with your new definitions? Who will that help? Will it bring anyone closer to God? Who is our King, but God if we are believers? Do not each of have a spirit of our own? If our spirit is an evil one could not he or she or it be named a demon without changing the truth? What is your purpose?

The Bible really does not say that are to live by science or by medicine does it?

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. " Rom 1:17

Thank you for switching fonts. The other was so light I could barely read it.

o

 

[amadeus]

Thank you for switching fonts. The other was so light I could barely read it.

o

I usually try to contrast my font with one of the quote of the person to whom I am responding to make it clearer.

 

[face2face]

In the following verse, the apostle Paul quotes the book of Job. What does it mean to you @face2face ?

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." I Cor 3:19

There are 57 passages from Job quoted or referred to in the NT.
The one you stated is from Eliphaz.
No boasting in mere mortals taking place here amadeus. Only bearing with a little folly here and there.
Maybe you can prove the supernatural being exists – a chapter given to this elusive creature?


F2F

 

[Job]

Maybe you can prove the supernatural being exists – a chapter given to this elusive creature?

Go play with a Ouija board and ask the devil to reveal himself.

o

 

[Helen]

Go play with a Ouija board and ask the devil to reveal himself.

o

Excellent idea.
That's why I have said earlier in these threads...thats it is very obvious to anyone reading , that he/she has never ever encountered demons.....but just spouting some stupid rubbish that the Devil whispered to him/her in their sleep...along with what he/her gets from books!!!

 

[face2face]

Hi F2F
I don't know about arthritis, but I do know that some maladies that we now understand were attributed as possession in times past. I can think of schizophrenia.

I haven't followed along really well, but would you say that Jesus could tell the difference between arthritis and schizophrenia and demon possession?

Good question.

We don't have anywhere in the Bible where information is given about these introduced ideas...hence the reason for this OP.

The meaning of satan (adversary) - the following are referred to as "satan" or "adversary":

God in 2 Samuel 24:1 cf. 1 Chronicles 21:1.

An obedient divine angel in Numbers 22:22.

Hadad the Edomite in 1 Kings 11:14.

Peter in Matthew 16:23.

We have established that the true identity of the adversary in Job is not stated though we suspect it was a member of Job's community who was envious at his position and wealth before God.

 

[Job]

Excellent idea.
That's why I have said earlier in these threads...thats it is very obvious to anyone reading , that he/she has never ever encountered demons.....but just spouting some stupid rubbish that the Devil whispered to him/her in their sleep...along with what he/her gets from books!!!

I think he's just another atheist who thinks he's clever. He believes he has us stumped. Anyone reading his posts can clearly see he knows nothing of the spiritual nature of God.

o

 

[face2face]

Sadly that what I was thinking about you. Look to Jesus, the way He was, the way He presented and carried Himself..the things He showed that the Father was telling Him to do.....Mostly, the way He so tried to tell the religious rulers and appointed teachers of the Law, of the day, how much they had misunderstood, He also mentions all the extra burdens MEN had added to the Law.

Jesus says He is the EXPRESS 'image' of the Father, so get to KNOW the Resurrected Jesus FIRST, and then you shall get to know your Father...Receive His Holy Spirit, who will teach you and bring you into ALL the truth.

The Bible bring far too much confusion among men, as they don't know how to rightly divide the word of Truth, that takes Gods help, but most prefer to lean on their own understanding of what has been written.

Look to the beginning of Genesis, how our Father wisely separated the Light from the darkness, right off the bat. His 'Kingdom of Light' is a purer form of Light than you can even imagine, and No darkness, No evil, No sin CAN ever enter into it. the two CANNOT mix, like oil and water here on earth.

That is why it tells us, that certain things cannot enter into the Kingdom of God, it's not that God wouldn't want you to enter ( not you personally, but people ), He just made it that way from the beginning, and has tried ever since, to show mankind how to avoid exclusion.

If God has as you claim, darkness and evil in Him for personal use, He would be excluded by His own Word and His own creation.......Simply not so !

If you would take the time to do what Paul suggested...Take everything you think, everything you have achieved and regard it as dung, in comparison to KNOWING Him in the power of His Resurrection.....NOT knowing something about Him someone else wrote about, no, KNOWING Him, it's an offer to all believers, but few it is, who are willing to find it.....

Think on this also. Is The Bible above God ? Or is God above The Bible ? He says :" Have No other gods before me.", so we must make up our minds whether to do as Jesus said and COME to HIM, or stick our noses in a book we have no where near enough 'smarts' to fully comprehend, without Him.

How about it? Care to truly get to Know Him ? Or will you, like so many others, turn your back on that part, and pretend it doesn't exist ? That the fully Resurrected Jesus, doesn't exist ?

All the very best

@pia

Respectfully, your thoughts have nothing to do with Job, the true nature of Biblical adversaries, or the contextual consideration of the first two chapters of the book. If this post was in another section of the forum titled “The Resurrected Jesus” then by all means let's chat, but you must appreciate the OP “Satan - who was he in the book of Job?” is the subject matter.

Many here have not proven he exists…they “say so”, but show nothing in their explanation of where this imaginary being came from (book, chapter and verse) they copy and paste a few scriptures and think because the word satan appears in that verse “Bobs your uncle”, we have supernatural evil.

The forum members who believe in this being are doing a terrible job of proving him from Scripture.

Just saying.

F2F

 

[Job]

The forum members who believe in this being are doing a terrible job of proving him from Scripture.

Proving Satan exists is the same as proving God exists. It can't be done.

If you were believer you would know that. You have no faith, therefore you have no knowledge where spiritual matters are concerned.

o

 

[face2face]

Proving Satan exists is the same as proving God exists. It can't be done.

If you were believer you would know that. You have no faith, therefore you have no knowledge where spiritual matters are concerned.

o

Wow a Christian who openly admits God's existence cannot be proven. Just feel the weight of that...you are without excuse!

 

[face2face]

@Job

9 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

But some in their ignorance say "God's existence cannot be proven" I will be interested to see how many throw there lot in with your rash statement.

F2F

 

[Job]

@Job

9 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

But some in their ignorance say "God's existence cannot be proven" I will be interested to see how many throw there lot in with your rash statement.

F2F

You don't even know what that passage means. You're just a parrot. You have no real knowledge of your own. All you can do piggyback off of someone else.

o

 

[mjrhealth]

For me this is why I have come to the conclusion the adversary in Job is a human adversary who is manifesting fleshly characteristics.

Funny how it was quoted in a movie, something along teh lines of, " the greatest lie ever created was when satan convinced the word he doesnt exist. One cannot fight an enemy one doesnt beleieve exists, thats why so many christians are deceived. One must know ones enemy , we may be our own worst enemy but teh devil has his hand in it, his finger prints are all over this forum, his dna in every church that man has ever built, you cant escape it. You cannot defenf yourself againt an illusion....