Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

[face2face]

You don't even know what that passage means. You're just a parrot. You have no real knowledge of your own. All you can do piggyback off of someone else.

o

Once you commit to a path of ignorance as you have the only way back is humility.

 

[face2face]

Funny how it was quoted in a movie, something along teh lines of, " the greatest lie ever created was when satan convinced the word he doesnt exist. One cannot fight an enemy one doesnt beleieve exists, thats why so many christians are deceived. One must know ones enemy , we may be our own worst enemy but teh devil has his hand in it, his finger prints are all over this forum, his dna in every church that man has ever built, you cant escape it. You cannot defenf yourself againt an illusion....

Its all smoke and mirrors.
Some here want to see Satan advocates prove this supernatural evil Being really exists.
We haven’t seen it in Job...the adversary there is present for 2 chapters and not heard of again.
Every single person within the book of Job testifies the trials were God's doing and yet you and others would say "No!", we want to cling to a mythological creature conjured up in the minds of Greek philosophers.
What's sad is the posts are filled with opinions and not Scripture. We have @Job thinking a cut and paste with bolded text is enough.
It wont do. If you reply, and doubtless you will, how about a little substance rather than quoting a movie script.
Let's see if you can speak to Job and show your Evil Satan.

 

[mjrhealth]

Its all smoke and mirrors.

No smoke and mirrors

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

you cant fight an enemy that you dont believe exists.

 

[pia]

@pia

Respectfully, your thoughts have nothing to do with Job, the true nature of Biblical adversaries, or the contextual consideration of the first two chapters of the book. If this post was in another section of the forum titled “The Resurrected Jesus” then by all means let's chat, but you must appreciate the OP “Satan - who was he in the book of Job?” is the subject matter.

Many here have not proven he exists…they “say so”, but show nothing in their explanation of where this imaginary being came from (book, chapter and verse) they copy and paste a few scriptures and think because the word satan appears in that verse “Bobs your uncle”, we have supernatural evil.

The forum members who believe in this being are doing a terrible job of proving him from Scripture.

Just saying.

F2F

He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.....

 

[Job]

Its all smoke and mirrors.
Some here want to see Satan advocates prove this supernatural evil Being really exists.
We haven’t seen it in Job...the adversary there is present for 2 chapters and not heard of again.
Every single person within the book of Job testifies the trials were God's doing and yet you and others would say "No!", we want to cling to a mythological creature conjured up in the minds of Greek philosophers.
What's sad is the posts are filled with opinions and not Scripture. We have @Job thinking a cut and paste with bolded text is enough.
It wont do. If you reply, and doubtless you will, how about a little substance rather than quoting a movie script.
Let's see if you can speak to Job and show your Evil Satan.

Your time here is short. You might want sling a few more insults before you're given the boot. Can't say I'll be sorry to see you go.

o

 

[face2face]

Is this one of the un-scriptural notions you intend to remove from the Word? Good luck with that.

Luke 13

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

o

and a woman was there who had been disabled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten herself up completely. 12 When Jesus saw her, he called her to him and said, “Woman, you are freed from your infirmity.”

So we have a woman who is disabled with a medical condition for 18 years. Jesus acknowledges it is an "infirmity" where the connected phraseology is indicative of trained medical knowledge on the part of the writer (Luke). The knowledge of the day was limited.

13 Then he placed his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.

Jesus does not conduct some exorcism but heals the woman of her condition.

But the president of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, said to the crowd, “There are six days on which work should be done! So come and be healed on those days, and not on the Sabbath day.”

The opposing president called it a "work" and a "healing" and no mention of supernatural evil.

Then the Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from its stall, and lead it to water?

The Lord defends his healing work by comparing it to the care they showed their animals.

Then shouldn’t this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen long years, be released from this imprisonment on the Sabbath day?”

Jesus is saying this woman has been bound by an adversary for eighteen years, referring to the illness and not some evil creature afflicting her over this time.

17When he said this all his adversaries were humiliated, but the entire crowd was rejoicing at all the wonderful things he was doing.

So the infirmity being a physical (or mental) weakness was removed and corrected in this woman on the Sabbath day, which offended the religious ruler because he failed to understand the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath, as per Isaiah 58.

Jesus' adversaries were humiliated not because of the conquering of a demon or evil spirit - that has NOTHING to do with the context of this passage. They were offended because Jesus had healed (did a work) on the Sabbath deemed forbidden by their customs. The crowds viewed the miracle as "wonderful" because it released a woman who was bound by an adversary 18 years i.e severe arthritis.

The focus in the story is those key words "Daughter of Abraham” - she is of faithful disposition!

Her presence in the synagogue testified that the Abrahamic covenant frees us from the bondage of law Galatians 2:10-14

A cause for great rejoicing.

F2F

 

[face2face]

No smoke and mirrors

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

you cant fight an enemy that you dont believe exists.

Okay...if you must

Firstly the passage nowhere mentions the terms "devil", "satan" or "fallen angel". Your argument in support of a fallen angel is an inferred argument.

Inferred means considerable notions are required to make your argument work.

Secondly, Lucifer is identified in the narrative, but not with a rebel angel. It is explicitly stated:

"Take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased!" (Isaiah 14:4).

You have no context and I believe if you were honest you would admit that the preceding chapter is a prophecy against Babylon itself, but now the prophecy is directed against the king of Babylon.

I could explain the meaning of Lucifer and how it relates to the context of the chapter (and the King) but this should be enough.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Even the Pupil Comentary understands the true meaning of this section of Scritpure.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer! Babylon’s sudden fall is compared, with great force and beauty, to the (seeming) fall of a star from heaven. The word translated “Lucifer” means properly “shining one,” and no doubt here designates a star; but whether any particular star or no is uncertain. The LXX. translated by ἑωσφόρος, whence our “Lucifer.” The subjoined epithet, “son of the morning” or “of the dawn,” accords well with this rendering. How art thou cut down to the ground! One of Isaiah’s favourite changes of metaphor. It is a favourite metaphor also to which he reverts—that of representing the destruction of a nation by the felling of a tree or of a forest (comp. ch. Isaiah 2:12 Isaiah 2:12 Isaiah 10:33,34 etc.).

 

[GodsGrace]

Good question.

We don't have anywhere in the Bible where information is given about these introduced ideas...hence the reason for this OP.

The meaning of satan (adversary) - the following are referred to as "satan" or "adversary":

God in 2 Samuel 24:1 cf. 1 Chronicles 21:1.

An obedient divine angel in Numbers 22:22.

Hadad the Edomite in 1 Kings 11:14.

Peter in Matthew 16:23.

We have established that the true identity of the adversary in Job is not stated though we suspect it was a member of Job's community who was envious at his position and wealth before God.

One of the definitions for devil is "adversary".
There are many:

Bibliography Information
Elwell, Walter A. "Entry for 'Devil'". "Evangelical Dictionary of Theology". . 1997.

Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Devil
Devil [N]
(Gr. diabolos), a slanderer, the arch-enemy of man's spiritual interest ( Job 1:6 ; Revelation 2:10 ; Zechariah 3:1 ). He is called also "the accuser of the brethen" ( Revelation 12:10 ).

In Leviticus 17:7 the word "devil" is the translation of the Hebrew sair , meaning a "goat" or "satyr" ( Isaiah 13:21 ; 34:14 ), alluding to the wood-daemons, the objects of idolatrous worship among the heathen.

In Deuteronomy 32:17 and Psalms 106:37 it is the translation of Hebrew shed , meaning lord, and idol, regarded by the Jews as a "demon," as the word is rendered in the Revised Version.

In the narratives of the Gospels regarding the "casting out of devils" a different Greek word (daimon) is used. In the time of our Lord there were frequent cases of demoniacal possession ( Matthew 12:25-30 ; Mark 5:1-20 ; Luke 4:35 ; 10:18 , etc.).
There are many places in the N.T. where the word "devil" is used...
GREEK WORD STUDIES διάβολος 'diabolos' meaning 'Devil' 1228

Why would you NOT think the devil is a real entity if the bible speaks of it and Jesus mentions this entity and even casts him out of persons.

My question to you would be this:
I'm willing to assume for a moment that the devil does not exist - which is your premis, correct?

Then where does evil come from?

P.S.
I don't know where this line comes from !!
Please ignore.

 

[GodsGrace]

mistake...

 

[GodsGrace]

Wow a Christian who openly admits God's existence cannot be proven. Just feel the weight of that...you are without excuse!

Job is right.
How do you PROVE the existance of God???

If you could, everyone would become Christian IMMEDIATELY !

God's existance and satan's existance can only be proven by the effects that they have in our world.

How would YOU prove the existance of God??

 

[Helen]

Agree ....all this person is doing over and over again is defending Satan, who he/she obviously admires. BUT has never encountered ....saying stupid things learned from some other Satan defender.
I'm done, this is a silly , waste of time thread , this person has no idea at all about the realm of the Spirit.
Unwatching and unresponding to this stupid thread any more.
Satan is getting too much air-time on this thread. I'm out.

TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY....GOD IS AN AWESOME GOD AND THE VICTORY IS HIS.

 

[GodsGrace]

Agree ....all this person is doing over and over again is defending Satan, who he/she obviously admires. BUT has never encountered ....saying stupid things learned from some other Satan defender.
I'm done, this is a silly , waste of time thread , this person has no idea at all about the realm of the Spirit.
Unwatching and unresponding to this stupid thread any more.

TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY....GOD IS AN AWESOME GOD AND THE VICTORY IS HIS.

The poster can be very sincere. Not all Christians believe in satan.
How they could not is a mystery to me when Jesus Himself mentioned him.

I'm going to leave this thread because I hate talking and/or thinking about the enemy.

I do hate the idea that there won't be anyone here to speak up for his existance.

 

[GodsGrace]

@face2face

P.S.
So you also believe hell does not exist?

 

[DPMartin]

So who was Job's Adversary? (called Satan)

He was a mortal member of the community, who harbored envious thoughts of Job’s prosperity and happiness, not unlike similar situations today. He was not the devil (false accuser) of apostate Christianity, or an evil angel in heaven. He was outwardly religious, but he came to the general assembly with his own form of worship, exactly like Cain, whose envy of Abel led to hatred and murder. He was a personal adversary to Job, who despised and rejected his humility and craven submission to God, and was bent on exposing His presumed hypocrisy, and bringing him to ruin.

The Lesson we take — We are not all equal now in talents or temporal possessions. We must trust God and believe that the angels know what they are doing in our individual situations, and that we are being trained by it for eternity.

your posting is way off base for a host of reasons, do people like you make up these lies for your own entertainment or what?


Satan is mentioned through out the scriptures as a angel that is the father of lies according to Jesus.

man this is one of the most deliberate removal of scripture from the rest of the bible I have ever seen.

 

[amadeus]

There are 57 passages from Job quoted or referred to in the NT.
The one you stated is from Eliphaz.
No boasting in mere mortals taking place here amadeus. Only bearing with a little folly here and there.
Maybe you can prove the supernatural being exists – a chapter given to this elusive creature?


F2F

My friend, I cannot prove for you any more than you can disprove. Believers live by faith, which means "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" [Heb 11:1]

Or as Jesus put it, "... Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Actually I do have proof of the existence of God, but I cannot share it with a closed heart.

If you are only speaking of satan, then read more carefully what I wrote in my post to you. The Bible clearly teaches there is an adversary. What you are trying to do is put forth your definition of that adversary as being the ailments as they are named and described by the medical profession. Such definitions, even if correct, would not prove that they do not exist or that they are not subject to Jesus as shown in scripture.

 

[pia]

Sicknesses and ailments are the symptoms, the Adversary is the cause........

 

[face2face]

Sicknesses and ailments are the symptoms, the Adversary is the cause........

That's true pia.
The adversary as it relates to illness is the flesh nature. You only need to go back to the Law of Moses where all those skin conditions deemed a person unclean. Did you know the entire Law of Moses does not mention "once" the name Satan, Devil, or any other misunderstood name given. No warning - not one! We can comfortably conclude the OT is silent on a supernatural evil creature.

 

[face2face]

My friend, I cannot prove for you any more than you can disprove. Believers live by faith, which means "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" [Heb 11:1]

That's correct substance and evidence...prove all things!

Or as Jesus put it, "... Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Correct believed in things hope for things which have plenty of evidence to support belief.

Actually I do have proof of the existence of God, but I cannot share it with a closed heart.

If you are only speaking of satan, then read more carefully what I wrote in my post to you. The Bible clearly teaches there is an adversary. What you are trying to do is put forth your definition of that adversary as being the ailments as they are named and described by the medical profession. Such definitions, even if correct, would not prove that they do not exist or that they are not subject to Jesus as shown in scripture.

You can look upon the heart? to discern through the internet a closed heart?
Sorry this is much of the same fluff 8 pages into this thread.
Luke 13 - the adversary was the illness which caused a daughter of Abraham to be bent over for eighteen years...if you believe some evil supernatural being "somehow" afflicted her with this disease, well that’s your prerogative, but I am here to show forth the truth concerning the word satan, its variety of uses in Scripture, and how it grammatically should be understood.
I sense there are a few genuine believers giving these thoughts sincere consideration.
F2F

 

[pia]

That's true pia.
The adversary as it relates to illness is the flesh nature. You only need to go back to the Law of Moses where all those skin conditions deemed a person unclean. Did you know the entire Law of Moses does not mention "once" the name Satan, Devil, or any other misunderstood name given. No warning - not one! We can comfortably conclude the OT is silent on a supernatural evil creature.

When it came to the old mans understanding, yes, but he certainly was mentioned in the old testament.With Jesus coming as man/God , The new man, we now get to understand through everything He shows us and indeed did then....
He brought down a curtain of sorts between the spiritual side and the world of the flesh of man.....