Saved by obeying the commandments?

[Behold]

If a person quenches the Spirit too often and/or too long he may find himself out of time [his allotted time before the grace] and end up reprobate or completely dead again.

The verse says to not quench the Spirit.
Nothing else.
The verse just moves on to the next dont do this, also....etc, etc


THEN, here come the Legalists, the self savers, who try to rewrite the verse as..."and if you do quench it, you're done, you're damned, its over", "Kiss heaven goodbye"....

And if you want to see a low comedy of errors erupt into hilarity and nonsense, just ask about 5 of them to define "quench the spirit".

= Let the comedy begin.....

"well, the church father's said, in AD 645, that this means".. and on and on and on.
"Here is what i think"
"my opinion is'.
"but, what Calvin said"
"but, Strong's Says"
"says"
"says'
"this one said, and that one said, and no one said the same thing".

Listen,
The verse does not even HINT that quenching the Spirit affects redemption, salvation, eternal life.
Deceivers make that connection, the bible does not, and never will.

The bible also says, "pray without ceasing" and someone could say..."or, you'll lose your salvation" "or you'll quench the spirit" "or one of your legs will grow longer then the other".

So, reader, you have to be careful, as self righteous people who are spawned out of of the many self righteous Cross Denying cults, all want you to believe that if you are not GOOD.....nearly perfect.... then the Cross of Christ is of no effect, when in fact you came to God as a lifetime sinner and God made you clean, forever., with the Blood of Jesus and the death of CHRIST on The CROSS.

Welcome To : Salvation

Its a GIFT..

"the GIFT of Salvation".

 

[amadeus]

Jesus was entirely sinless and was angry many times at the false teachers.

Jesus was without sin in his anger because he knew the hearts of those false teachers. When our knowledge is so complete and correct about their hearts then we may also not sin in our anger... but who among us always such knowledge of the hearts of others?

Certainly, God may sometimes give us such knowledge, but since coming to God [being born from above?] have we ever reacted violently as a result of our anger against another person without really knowing the heart of that person? Is this not why final judgement against others belongs to God rather than to us?

 

[friend of]

What has become "In Christ" and "One with God".... "seated in heavenly places".... that is going to get a "new body"?

Also,

Sin, is defined as sin, by the LAW.

If there is no law, there is no sin, no transgression, as its the law that defines sin as sin.

Notice.

"the Born again are not under the law, but under Grace".

"Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes".

"Jesus has redeemed the born again, from the curse of the law".

I think you're just beating a dead horse at this point. I don't even think we disagree.

 

[friend of]

You are reading a verse that is directed at unbelievers.

Read 1 John 3:9.... instead, as that is directed to the Born again.

Also, we make God and Christ a liar if we say we have sin, when "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us", because "Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for sin".

Being born again proves that the person has God's Righteousness and Jesus has their sin, on the Cross.

See, its an untruth to define a Christian as a sinner when they are defined as a "Saint" "being now made free from sin".

Only the LAW can define a person as a sinner, and the born again are "not under the Law, but under Grace".

Why would unbelievers read the bible though? If the message is addressed to unbelievers, who don't read the bible, then how are they supposed to acquire that message and realize their state? Being made "free from sin" would indicate sinless perfection imo.

 

[Behold]

I think you're just beating a dead horse at this point. I don't even think we disagree.

The "born again spirit".

So, lets just go right there, and park in this post.

The born again Spirit is the Son/Daughter of God., and exists in the Kingdom of God, as "in Christ" and "One with God".

When you read..."translated from darkness to Light" that is the process of becoming born again.
You wont hear that in your pulpit or in your denomination, and its vital information.

That verse is showing the sinner, being processed as sinless, into the Kingdom of God.

This means that the REAL YOU< is not that body you are wearing, or that mind that is thinking about what you want to eat next.

Why is it so important to see yourself as the Born again Spirit, that is the "NEW Creation in Christ"?
Its because God only sees the born again, as the Born again Spirit, made righteous, "in Christ", "one with God".

Its because if you dont see yourself as God sees you at all times, then you wont be able to understand or believe that sin is not imputed to you ever again, as stated in these verses because you wont understand why these verses are true.

Romans 4:8

2 Corinthians 5:19

When you read those verses, they teach (Paul) that God does not charge sin to you., ever again.
And the reason is because the born again are not under the law, BECAUSE we exist eternally, right now... where no law and 10 commandments exist.

This does not apply to the water baptized religious who believe that the water washed their sin away.

 

[Behold]

Why would unbelievers read the bible though?

I was not talking to an unbeliever.
I was talking to a person who defines themselves as born again, whose faith is not working for them because of that verse, and a particular cult teaching that has caused their understanding of "being now made free from sin", to not exist at all.

 

[amadeus]

What you just stated is not found in a bible or a K. greek text.

The verse says to not quench the Spirit.
Nothing else.
The verse just moves on to the next dont do this, also....etc, etc


THEN, here come the Legalists, the self savers, who try to rewrite the verse as..."and if you do quench it, you're done, you're damned, its over", "Kiss heaven goodbye"....

And if you want to see a low comedy of errors erupt into hilarity and nonsense, just ask about 5 of them to define "quench the spirit".

"Let the comedy begin"..

"well, the church father's said, in AD 645, that this means".. and on and on and on.
"Here is what i think"
"my opinion is'.
"but, what Calvin said"
"but, Strong's Says"
"says"
"says'
"this one said, and that one said, and no one said the same thing".

Listen,
The verse does not even HINT that quenching the Spirit affects redemption, salvation, eternal life.
Deceivers make that connection, the bible does not, and never will.

The bible also says, "pray without ceasing" and someone could say..."or, you'll lose your salvation" "or you'll quench the spirit" "or one of your legs will grow longer then the other".

So, reader, you have to be careful, as self righteous people who are spawned out of of the many self righteous Cross Denying cults, all want you to believe that if you are not GOOD.....nearly perfect.... then the Cross of Christ is of no effect, when in fact you came to God as a lifetime sinner and God made you clean, forever., with the Blood of Jesus and the death of CHRIST on The CROSS.

Welcome To : Salvation

Its a GIFT..

"the GIFT of Salvation".

If we are 'quenching' the Holy Spirit within us, who is leading us? Our flesh? If we not 'praying without ceasing' what is our mind and our heart doing? Perhaps doing the logical carnal things that men perform when they are not connected to God? Where does that lead us?

Ro 8:5

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

I believe that a person still has a choice after receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit... to follow the new Way by the power of God or the old way by the power of carnal man which leads to sin and death. God may indeed be merciful and allow us to repent when we choose the wrong one, but is there not limit put on us according to the period of time that God has allotted to each of us? Is there not a limit on the number of times God will accept our repentance again? We do not know the limit for us, so we must continue to lean on God and follow Him. Saying we are saved in this moment may be OK, but to say that we cannot backslide while we still have time left in this carnal body seems to be very presumptuous and to be actually be tempting God. When we have finished our time with Him then He may well say unto us, "enter thou into the joy of thy Lord".

Many times each us may stumble and then look again to God and ask for mercy as one more time we seek to repent. We do not know when it will be the last time left to us.

@Behold

You may sincerely disagree with me, but I believe it as I have stated it. [Forgive for any typos,] I do not condemn anyone as that is not my job. However, I must live as God has shown and is showing me to live. If He shows me I need to change, I certainly am willing. I have over the decades that I served Him changed on quite a few things. I continue to talk with Him daily and to ask Him to lead me rightly opening my heart to correction when and if needed. I go to Him as the pliable clay to the Master Potter. No one else's hand will do although God has used available vessels to redirect at times.

Only God gives the increase!

 

[Behold]

If we are 'quenching' the Holy Spirit within us, who is leading us?

The same one who is leading when they choose to watch Netflix, and get a piece of Chocolate.
The same one who is deciding that "this year i want to trade the Chevy in for a Audi"

Quenching the spirit is to resist it until you can't be led by it, because you have lost spiritual sensitivity.

Its also the idea of "when the spirit is moving, move with it". vs, "setting it aside" or "in a few mins i will".

It can be like this.. You are sitting on the sofa, and are flipping through the 200 Cable channels again, and you hear in your inner man.... "Romans 3:21-28 will help you to get out of the cult you are in".
So, the person thinks... "im not in a cult,"
They just quenched the Spirit.

I believe that a person still has a choice after receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit... t is there not limit put on us according to the period of time

Our Death has an appointment : Hebrews 9:27

The unbeliever is able to receive Christ for as long as they are able to be drawn by the Holy Spirit into Faith.
Protestant churches teach this as the "conviction of the Holy Spirit or the convicting power of the Holy Spirit".
There is a line that can be crossed in a person's hearing, (unbeliever) where they are so conscience seared that the Holy Spirit is =.They can't hear it. And that one, that person, is lost.
Kinda rare. And "Death bed conversions" are real.

There is a difference between being born again into the Spirit of God, as a "new Creation in Christ", that can never change, and reacting to the Holy Spirit when He is leading.
The Spiritual Birth that is the Spiritual union between God's Spirit and the born again Spirit is a birth IN the Spirit.
That's eternal.
That is not the same as the Holy Spirit's voice that leads you to do something in life., like "go fishing".

that God has allotted to each of us? Is there not a limit on the number of times God will accept our repentance again?

If you are born again, then that is completed.
If a person is water baptized and religious, then its not completed.

Eternal life that is gained by being born again Spiritually, is Christ in you, and that isn't going anywhere.
Being Joined to God, Spiritually..."Born again", as a "new creation in Christ", is permanent.

Christ coming to live in the Christian, was not based on doing good or being good.
It was initiated when the life long sinner, came to God and said......"I BELIEVE IN YOUR SON, im a sinner, please save me, "
"faith is counted as righteousness"...
And God will, save.
So, God causes Salvation, as He is the one who offers it.
God is the one who created the blood atonement covenant.
Confused religious people think that this is something they DO, or that its something they can lose after God has imputed it to them.

Philippians 1:6 says that God is faithful to complete our salvation.

 

[Behold]

"Being made "free from sin" would indicate sinless perfection imo." friend of #125

Being made free from sin is what Christ is doing on the Cross for you, 2000 yrs ago.
Why dont you know this?

He took our sin. "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN...FOR US"..
God gave us His "Gift of Righteousness", after Jesus dealt with all our sin.

If you have sin, then Christ does not have your sin.
He has it, or you do.
In that case, if you have it, then you are not born again yet, Reader.
When you are born again, Christ has become you "sin bearer" and God gives you "The Gift of Righteousness" and you become '"In Christ" and there is no sin found "in Christ".

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So you never have a unkind thought?

Of course! I hate stupidity. I hate sin. Those are not sins in the eyes of God, but are like Him. This is why I teach.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

My sins have ALL been forgiven, past, present and future....this is the Living word to his Born again children.

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◄ 1 John 3:9 ►

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Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. New Living Translation Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. English Standard Version No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. Berean Standard Bible Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. Berean Literal Bible Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.

Our past sins are forgiven 2 Peter 1:9, but not willful present or future sins. That is part of a false doctrine of demons wanting you to be apathetic towards sin. It is best to never do anything your conscience tells you not to do, and work out your own salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING. This is no joke.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"Being made "free from sin" would indicate sinless perfection imo." friend of #125

This is the hobby horse of "one" who has zero to offer me in the spiritual growth of a disciple of Christ!

All the while denying the term "sinless perfection", that IS what is said throughout multiple threads!

It is Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith to be sinless immediately when we are cleansed of ALL unrighteousness including sins unto death taking us from death to life. He also gives us His Spirit to empower us to stay that way. I know that is possible! And then as we mature in ALL of the fruit of the Spirit are we perfected. A sin against a fruit as it is immature is a sin NOT unto death. 1 John 5:16-17 and will not damn you to hell.

 

[Ritajanice]

Our past sins are forgiven 2 Peter 1:9, but not willful present or future sins. That is part of a false doctrine of demons wanting you to be apathetic towards sin. It is best to never do anything your conscience tells you not to do, and work out your own salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING. This is no joke.

Apathetic towards sin?...if I’m in error, then only the Holy Spirit can correct me.

So far, my sins past,present, future are forgiven..Jesus has them...I knew this from day one....confessing sins daily, lol....when I’m in the righteousness of Christ.....in God’s eyes I’m in Christ a new creation....I’ve been set free from Sin, by being birthed in the Spirit....

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Apathetic towards sin?...if I’m in error, then only the Holy Spirit can correct me.

So far, my sins past,present, future are forgiven..Jesus has them...I knew this from day one....confessing sins daily, lol....when I’m in the righteousness of Christ.....in God’s eyes I’m in Christ a new creation....

You better stop looking at doctrines of man and ONLY go by what is in the Bible. Show me where it says that your willful present and future sins are already forgiven? Because the Bible only talks about PAST sins. That is the reason why Jesus came. You talk as if He came to want you to continue to sin, and doesn't empower us to "sin no more." I doubt @Behold would teach to go ahead and sin in the present and future willfully as our past sins were committed when we had sin dominating our nature before Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

A sin against a fruit as it is immature is a sin NOT unto death. 1 John 5:16-17 and will not damn you to hell

Please explain in “ simple” terms what this means?

What is a sin against a fruit?

@Behold

 

[Ritajanice]

willful past, present and future sins are already forgiven

My past, present and future sins are hidden in Christ....now you show me where it says in the word....that our past, present and future sins aren’t forgiven?

Who said I still want to sin, are you being serious,? I’m in Christ....there is no sin in a Born Again....I’ve been birthed in the Spirit....

 

[Behold]

Please explain in “ simple” terms what this means?

What is a sin against a fruit?

@Behold

That is "word salad".

Incomprehensible man made nonsense, not related to the bible, the Cross, or any known theology.

 

[Ritajanice]

That is "word salad".

Incomprehensible man made nonsense, not related to the bible, the Cross, or any known theology.

That’s exactly what I thought, you’ve just confirmed it through the Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Please explain in “ simple” terms what this means?

What is a sin against a fruit?

@Behold

I'll show you through the Bible.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

These human nature traits would be sins not unto death - imperfect attitudes.

sarcasm
impatience
an angry outburst
lack of self control - addictions to smoking, over-eating (this doesn't apply to sexual sins like rape which are against another and sins unto death nor drunkeness which is already called a sin of the flesh and a sin unto death: see below)


Sins unto death
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

I'll show you through the Bible.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

These human nature traits would be sins not unto death - imperfect attitudes.

sarcasm
impatience
an angry outburst
lack of self control - addictions to smoking, over-eating (this doesn't apply to sexual sins like rape which are against another and sins unto death nor drunkeness which is already called a sin of the flesh and a sin unto death: see below)


Sins unto death
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Hope you don’t mind me asking @Behold what this means?