Saved to perish?

[Joseph77]

We were talking about the Gospel as spelled out by Paul in 1Cor 11:1-4 and now you switched gears to Jesus speaking about the Great Trib. And now you say, "What you are saying is not correct as far as I can tell ". Adios amigo.

You disagree with Jesus and with Paul ?

They are both in agreement, perfectly.

There is no hope for anyone who rejects Jesus.

bye.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Reading many posts here, this is what the Christian walk seems to boils down to.

"Now that I have been saved from sin and hell, if I don't perform well enough, I am sinning and in danger of going to hell."

From another perspective, if you do not have access by faith into the grace of God, how can you possibly stand in His grace?

Rom 5:1-2 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, (2) through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

If you are standing in the grace of God that brings salvation, then

• what are you being taught to do?
• what is Jesus being faithful to do?

Tit 2:11-14 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, (12) teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, (13) looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (14) who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Any professing Christian not walking worthy of their vocation to the best of their ability may be just that, a professing Christian and not a possessing Christian who
accesses the grace of God for salvation come hell, smell, or high water.

 

[Episkopos]

Interesting. These aren't to experience the 2nd death?

Revelation 14:9-10 KJV
[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

You have found the only verse in the bible that may suggest that some people (who worship the beast) will be tormented forever (?) in the lake of fire.

There are many possible outcomes at judgment. People will over-simplify there being only a heaven and a hell...which are places that are not eternal. Heaven will come to earth and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Renniks]

Some do seem forever fearful of losing salvation. I don't believe you can lose it. You can throw it away, but if you did that you would not care anymore.
Rest in the Lord and in his mighty power.

 

[Jacob Marley]

Reading many posts here, this is what the Christian walk seems to boils down to.

"Now that I have been saved from sin and hell, if I don't perform well enough, I am sinning and in danger of going to hell."

I wouldn't see it as "if i don't perform well enough", more like "can I do better."

 

[Joseph77]

How important is the blood of Jesus to you(pl/anyone) ?

 

[friend of]

How important is the blood of Jesus to you(pl/anyone) ?

Why, it is the most important thing.

 

[prism]

Never even thought of it - no. If you think or trust one or the other of those two groups, woe to you.

No I trust Jesus Christ.

 

[prism]

You disagree with Jesus and with Paul ?

They are both in agreement, perfectly.

There is no hope for anyone who rejects Jesus.

bye.

They are both in agreement, but they were talking of different situations.

 

[prism]

From another perspective, if you are do not have access by faith into the grace of God, how can you possibly stand in His grace?

Rom 5:1-2 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, (2) through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

If you are standing in the grace of God that brings salvation, then

• what are you being taught to do?
• what is Jesus being faithful to do?

Tit 2:11-14 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, (12) teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, (13) looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (14) who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Anyone professing Christian not walking worthy of their vocation to the best of their ability may be just that, a professing Christian and not a possessing Christian who
accesses the grace of God for salvation come hell, smell, or high water.

Agreed. I hope you realize the OP is stating an observation and he does not personally believe the stated hypothetical.

 

[Joseph77]

Agreed. I hope you realize the OP is stating an observation and he does not personally believe the stated hypothetical.

This may have caused, or may cause, confusion.

 

[prism]

You have found the only verse in the bible that may suggest that some people (who worship the beast) will be tormented forever (?) in the lake of fire.

There are many possible outcomes at judgment. People will over-simplify there being only a heaven and a hell...which are places that are not eternal. Heaven will come to earth and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.

There is no 'may' about it. It is as definite as any verse in Scripture...

Revelation 14:9-10 (KJV) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

[prism]

I wouldn't see it as "if i don't perform well enough", more like "can I do better."

That's always a good question to ask.

 

[prism]

This may have caused, or may cause, confusion.

Questions are a good tool for clarification, before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Joseph77]

Questions are a good tool for clarification, before jumping to conclusions.

Did you mean to cause confusion,
and did you yet state the purpose for the OP/topic / made up ?

 

[prism]

Did you mean to cause confusion,
and did you yet state the purpose for the OP/topic / made up ?

What is confusing you, maybe I can answer it?

 

[Joseph77]

What is confusing you, maybe I can answer it?

Did you mean / intend to cause confusion,
and
Did you state the purpose for the thread somewhere ?

Looking at the OP, your recent posts, it looks like you had no purpose .....

 

[Joseph77]

So? it simply is not true and a little light on the matter never hurt.

So you have not added even a little light yet...

a hidden purpose, a hidden light , helps no one.

 

[prism]

Did you mean / intend to cause confusion,
and
Did you state the purpose for the thread somewhere ?

Looking at the OP, your recent posts, it looks like you had no purpose .....

So you have not added even a little light yet...

a hidden purpose, a hidden light , helps no one.

You are judging the post on the one hand and yet admit you are confused as to it's purpose?
What is your purpose here? To sit as thee Authority over those who start a thread?
I will explain it one LAST time.
I have been on Christian Forums since 1996, and many posts are written (especially to those seeking advice) in such a way that will state that the Gospel is a free gift on account of Christ's obedience and then turn around and give a list of things to do in order to stay saved lest one perish. This transfers salvation from being a gift to salvation by works.
I hope that clears things up.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Agreed. I hope you realize the OP is stating an observation and he does not personally believe the stated hypothetical.

Yes, "the sinning saint dilemma" is a guaranteed thread spinner, and not a bad one to push a slow day on the forum along.