Scriptural proof that Jesus was NOT "fully God"

[Foreigner]

LOL Robbie, now you're obsessing.

I am sorry that all people have to do is scroll back and look at our conversation to see that I am quoting you directly.

Move on young men.

Ignore me like you said you would (promised) and get on with your life.

Try to salvage some dignity.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

I think every human except Jesus who has ever been has sinned, but I believe Jesus is both fully God and fully man. Because Adam and Eve were sinless by their created nature, I believe sin has nothing to do with the natural identity of man. I believe the sin nature has become an inherited identity by birth ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

 

[Robbie]

This guy is trippen... I have so many people hidden on this board... I don't remember why... I just hide people that seem like they're constantly in arguments and accusing people of shiz. Sometimes I unhide them... I'm free to do that... I can change my mind... I can tell someone today I'm hiding them and not talking to them and then tomorrow unhide them and read what they have to say. That's not breaking a promise... that's changing my mind which I'm free to do. And if I do read what they wrote and I choose to respond to them asking me a question I'm free to do that. There's not some rule I have to live by about never being able to change my mind. God... that's such a typical religious attitude... it's DEATH.

And besides... I didn't say to this guy, "I promise you I'll never talk to you again or read anything you have to say" that's a bunch of bull... haha... and what if I did anyways? Who gives a crap... it's like this guys so desperate to accuse me of something and what's he got? I say STFU satan when he tries to tempt me? I don't believe America is founded on God? I said I was over talking to him in the past and gave him another chance today?

It's like so what.. I unhide this guy and see he's asked me a question... I respond to him... next thing I know the guys badgering me about breaking some promise I never made... I mean why would he ask me a question if he thought it was breaking a promise in order for me to respond to it?

The guy tempts and accuses and makes up lies if it adds to his case... no wonder I hid the guy in the first place... chances are knowing me in a couple months I'll forget again why I hid him and unhide him and respond to him again and go through this whole nonsense again and again until I actually feel the need to remember and cut him off permanently... that usually takes a lot for me with people... but I don't care... there's other people I've had hidden and I've unhid something they wrote and enjoyed reading their perspective... I'm not going to let this guy harden my heart against who I want to be as a person.

I like to forgive... I like to change my mind based on forgiving and forgetting... it feels great when someone pushes my buttons and I'm over them and cut them off and one day work it out and reestablish relationship with them... that's what God did for us... yet this guy wants to beat me up for giving him a second chance today... so trippy...

 

[Angelina]

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Moderation Team

 

[aspen]

Another thread challenging the fully divinity of Christ? Did "Truth" run this topic into the ground?

 

[SistrChristian]

You’re absolutely right that Jesus Christ did not walk the earth ‘acting’ fully as God. Jesus walked humbly in the flesh as a human being… with His Faith in His Father. The biggest clue to this is all of His suffering, and consequently as born again Christians… while we are blessed, and blessed beyond what we deserve, we suffer, too, in our walks. Far from a cake walk our journeys’ are, but like the faith of Jesus Christ it is our faith, too, that relies on God and the Holy Spirit for grace, mercy, and peace; in the face of catastrophe, too, as we mature.

Each of us was first born in the flesh from both one Father and one Mother... while Jesus Christ was conceived of in the Will of God the Father and given birth to from Mary his mother in the flesh; thus Jesus is God’s Son - both God and man. He was born into the world, grew, and lived in the flesh the same as you and I, but His purpose separates Himself from anyone other that has ever, or will ever, walk this earth. I’m thinking we here all know what His purpose was and is.

 

[Duckybill]

I’m thinking we here all know what His purpose was and is.

Don't bet your life on it.

 

[Templar81]

I can't believe this is even up for debate since it is such a fundimental Christian belief. Jesus is not half and have he is fully human and fully divine. If you are in any doubt then read the Niceane Creed.

 

[Dulzurra]

Scripture says that ...
Jesus was NOT going around being "fully God" and able to do everything himself.

Even though Jesus, the man, had God * within him,
He still was a man and needed a lot of help from the Father and the Holy Spirit.
* It's my understanding that he had the Second Person of the Triune God within Him.

It is also my understanding that Jesus was NOT "fully man"
because since he was "without sin", he did not have man's sin nature.​

To: Topic Writer
Jesus is God as validated in the bible. I do agree as a human prior to his resurrection Jesus was not fully God in the aspect where he did not have full Godly divine attiributes i.e. he emptied himself of his divinity to become human - he did not hold all of God's power as a human Phil 2:7-8; John 14:10. Yes he had limited authority on his own John 5:27-30. He was God with us while human Isaiah 7:14, Matt 1:23, by way of the same in identity, in God's nature but not in divinity. Prior to his human birth (logos) & after his resurrection he was fully God in divine power & immortality Matt 28:18.
Yes he had the Holy Spirit from birth Matt 1:18 (the "trinity" a theory, for a different topic).

True he was "without sin", and the bible also verifies he was flesh & blood completely human. He was tempted in every sense, but chose not to sin Heb 4:15 "we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathise with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are but without sin" He opted not to sin - to succumb to the desires of the flesh, this does not indicate that he was not fully human on the contrary by all means he was tempted but he struggled to overcome man's sinful nature Luke 22:41-42; Heb 5:7; Heb 2:10. The Bible patently conveys he was fully man, via temptations, physical limitations, grieved, wept, hunger, thirst, fatigue, his death, emptied himself of his divine power to become human & so forth Heb 2:9,14, Matt 2six:37-40, etc. It appears your statement is illogical "Jesus was NOT fully God & NOT fully man", you are either mortal or immortal you cannot be both simultaneously. Jesus was first Spirit as the Logos (Immortal) than full human as Jesus -Not fully God (mortal) than restored to Spirit - fully God (Immortal).

 

[John Zain]

I think every human except Jesus who has ever been has sinned.
Because Adam and Eve were sinless by their created nature,
I believe sin has nothing to do with the natural identity of man.
I believe the sin nature has become an inherited identity by birth ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

I agree with all of this, except ...

I believe the sin nature has become an inherited identity by birth (except in the case of Jesus)
ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

The exception, of course, was because Jesus' biological father was the Holy Spirit.
I believe our sin nature has been passed down either through man's sperm or through the blood.

 

[John Zain]

Jesus Christ was conceived of in the Will of God the Father and given birth to from Mary his mother in the flesh;
thus Jesus is God’s Son - both God and man.

I never thought of it that way ... thank you.

Jesus is Father God's Son in that it was through His will (and plan) that Jesus be born in the way that He was.

Father God's will (and plan) was that the Holy Spirit would be the biological father of the human called "Jesus".

Because of this, Jesus did not have our sin nature, and did not sin (even though greatly tempted).

Because of this, Jesus was qualified to be our substitute and die for us (for all of our sins).

But, I have forgotten why it was so important that God had to die for our sins.
I.e. Was it important that Jesus be "fully God"?
Perhaps someone could explain this to me.

I thought that the big priority was that a sinless man had to die for our sins.

In any event ... Thank you, Jesus. We praise You forever. Amen.

 

[John Zain]

I can't believe this is even up for debate since it is such a fundimental Christian belief.
Jesus is not half and have he is fully human and fully divine. If you are in any doubt then read the Niceane Creed.

Sorry, 81, I think for myself.

Just why should we trust the decisions of men 300 years after the death of Christ?
Church politics, etc. were greatly involved back then.

How many of these men were born again?
How many of these men had the baptism with the Holy Spirit?
How many of these men were being led by the Holy Spirit?

We're supposed to be the sheep of Jesus, not of men.
Any idea of how many billions of people have been led astray by men's doctrines?
E.g. You've got untold millions of Muslims without Qurans (or Bibles) blindly following their emams.

All of that being said ...
I'm NOT saying "fully God" is wrong, I'm just questioning it (from what I read in Scripture).
And there are some verses which seem to indicate that Jesus was "fully God".

So, what do we have here ... another Calvinism vs. Armenianism type of controversy?

 

[veteran]

Really, all he has to do is prove that Jesus Christ is not Immanuel, which means 'with us is God'.

 

[tomwebster]

I never thought of it that way ... thank you.

Jesus is Father God's Son in that it was through His will (and plan) that Jesus be born in the way that He was.

Father God's will (and plan) was that the Holy Spirit would be the biological father of the human called "Jesus".

Because of this, Jesus did not have our sin nature, and did not sin (even though greatly tempted).

Because of this, Jesus was qualified to be our substitute and die for us (for all of our sins).

But, I have forgotten why it was so important that God had to die for our sins.
I.e. Was it important that Jesus be "fully God"?
Perhaps someone could explain this to me.

I thought that the big priority was that a sinless man had to die for our sins.

In any event ... Thank you, Jesus. We praise You forever. Amen.

Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, is 100% God and 100% man

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[John Zain]

It appears your statement is illogical "Jesus was NOT fully God & NOT fully man",
you are either mortal or immortal you cannot be both simultaneously.

Thank you for your very impressive response.
Are you agreeing with me? ..."you cannot be both simultaneously"

(Most Christians believe that He was both "fully God" and "fully man".)

 

[Foreigner]

Of Course Jesus is God. He said so Himself.

"Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"- John 14:9


"Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"' - John 20:28

Please note that when Thomas said this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Jesus did not correct him in any way.

 

[John Zain]

Really, all he has to do is prove that Jesus Christ is not Immanuel,
which means 'with us is God'.

I am postulating that the Second person of the Triune God was residing solidly within the man named "Jesus".
Immanuel means "God (is) with us".
Yes, God was with thousands of us for 33 years. Happy now?

John 1:1 ... the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us ...

Tommy, you didn't have to get carried away. John 1 is quite simple.
But, what do you think about my verses in post #1?

 

[tomwebster]

I am postulating that the Second person of the Triune God was residing solidly within the man named "Jesus".
Immanuel means "God (is) with us".
Yes, God was with thousands of us for 33 years. Happy now?

No! God was not just "residing" in Jesus. Jesus was God AND Jesus was the Holy Spirit!

...

But, what do you think about my verses in post #1?

I think they show you are able to "proof text." Grabbing a verse here and a verse there and a verse there thinking you are making a point, but you are not. I think they show you do not know how to follow "subject and object." I think they show you have not read Scripture very well.
Do you want more?

 

[Foreigner]

John 1:1 ... the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us ...


That sums it up nicely, Tomwebster.

 

[John Zain]

Problem solved. Thank you, Jesus!

If Jesus was "fully God", WHY does He say in this most famous Scripture:
"The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me because He has anointed Me ..." (Luke 4:18)
WHY does the Holy Spirit have to be "upon" Him?
Does Father God also need to have the Holy Spirit "upon" Him to perform a miracle?

Aaaaah, it just came to me recently ... here it is ...

The function of the Holy spirit is to be the Work-Horse.
God the Father never performs any miracles.
God the Son never performs any miracles.
God the Holy Spirit is the only One who performs miracles.
The Father and the Son have different functions.