Scriptural proof that Jesus was NOT "fully God"

[Fire-7]

Some sentences taken out of context isn't scriptural proof... haha... it's just picking and choosing whatever supports, "your understanding" which is basically garbage... that's why everyone just needs to read the bible for themselves... straight through... no study guides.... or men telling us, "What he's really saying is", no cross referencing... just read stuff as it was written.. otherwise we'll end up following some garbage theory that man made up by picking and choosing words out of context that support their agenda which is usually nothing more than feeding their ego of being the one that's right...

Oh look Jesus... the scripture says the angels wont let you hit the ground... it's like, [edited by the moderator] satan... that's one sentence and you're taking it out of context and using it to support a garbage theory in order to manipulate me" haha... God it's irritating...

Robbie, you have a way with words. I always like your comebacks. lol ...even when it's me you're coming back at

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus in the OT:

Jeremiah 17:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

 

[Dulzurra]

Thank you for your very impressive response.
Are you agreeing with me? ..."you cannot be both simultaneously"

(Most Christians believe that He was both "fully God" and "fully man".)

Your welcome JZ. Yes I agree with you cannot be both simultaneously.
Yes I know most believe that (a commonly accepted trinitarian view) it seems the rules of logic is not applicable to their perception of God.

 

[aspen]

Your welcome JZ. Yes I agree with you cannot be both simultaneously.
Yes I know most believe that (a commonly accepted trinitarian view) it seems the rules of logic is not applicable to their perception of God.

The idea actually is described in the Doctrine of the Incarnation. A doctrine that is accepted by all Catholic churches (orthodox, roman, coptic) and all Protestant churches. It is rejected by heretical groups like JWs, Mormons, SDA, and Oneness Pentecostals. It is a key doctrine of Christianity and a dividing line between orthodoxy and heresy. The fact is, rejection of this doctrine places you outside of Christianity. You are also incorrect about the impossibility of being fully man and fully God - God and humanity are not opposites. I can be fully homo sapien and fully bi-pedal - for example

 

[justaname]

Scripture says that ...
Jesus was NOT going around being "fully God" and able to do everything himself.

Even though Jesus, the man, had God * within him,
He still was a man and needed a lot of help from the Father and the Holy Spirit.
* It's my understanding that he had the Second Person of the Triune God within Him.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives (of Satan)
and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed (by demons)

Luke 5:17
Now it happened on a certain day, as He (Jesus) was teaching,
that there were Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting by,
who had come out of every town of Galilee, Judea, and Jerusalem.
And the power of the Lord was present to heal them (the multitudes).

Hebrews 10:38
... how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power,
who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil,
for God was with Him.

It is also my understanding that Jesus was NOT "fully man"
because since he was "without sin", he did not have man's sin nature.​

The spirit of the Lord is "Fully God". Jesus was a man fully, when he walked as a man in His time. Being the Word of God, Jesus was with the Father since the beginning, as to all creation was spoken into being. As the word God lived sinless, a task no man could do, but Jesus did. I think divine intervention took place here.

 

[justaname]

Problem solved. Thank you, Jesus!

If Jesus was "fully God", WHY does He say in this most famous Scripture:
"The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me because He has anointed Me ..." (Luke 4:18)
WHY does the Holy Spirit have to be "upon" Him?
Does Father God also need to have the Holy Spirit "upon" Him to perform a miracle?

Aaaaah, it just came to me recently ... here it is ...

The function of the Holy spirit is to be the Work-Horse.
God the Father never performs any miracles.
God the Son never performs any miracles.
God the Holy Spirit is the only One who performs miracles.
The Father and the Son have different functions.

Jesus received the Holy Spirit, being an example to holy living for mankind. Setting the stage for the greatest act for humanity since the garden, tearing the veil. If you don't see God's hand at work here what do you see?
Here is my question to you. As Christians whose name are we to proclaim to the heavens, earth, and below the earth?

 

[veteran]

If Jesus Christ is not Immanuel God with us, then let's see you doubters try and save yourselves.

 

[Duckybill]

The idea actually is described in the Doctrine of the Incarnation. A doctrine that is accepted by all Catholic churches (orthodox, roman, coptic) and all Protestant churches. It is rejected by heretical groups like JWs, Mormons, SDA, and Oneness Pentecostals. It is a key doctrine of Christianity and a dividing line between orthodoxy and heresy. The fact is, rejection of this doctrine places you outside of Christianity. You are also incorrect about the impossibility of being fully man and fully God - God and humanity are not opposites. I can be fully homo sapien and fully bi-pedal - for example

I've known many Pentecostals but have never known of any serious errors in their doctrines. They are mainly hung up on water baptism for salvation. Please elaborate.

 

[aspen]

I've known many Pentecostals but have never known of any serious errors in their doctrines. They are mainly hung up on water baptism for salvation. Please elaborate.

Most Pentecostal Churches teach the correct nature of God as a Trinity - Oneness Pentecostals are a heretical group that came out of Pentecostalism. I think many of the Oneness (modalism) Pentecostal churches call themselves Apostolic Pentecostals, but I am not positive.

 

[Duckybill]

Most Pentecostal Churches teach the correct nature of God as a Trinity - Oneness Pentecostals are a heretical group that came out of Pentecostalism. I think many of the Oneness (modalism) Pentecostal churches call themselves Apostolic Pentecostals, but I am not positive.

I guess I don't understand the term 'Oneness'.

 

[aspen]

I guess I don't understand the term 'Oneness'.

They believe in an old heresy called modalism - One God, who changed into Jesus and than changed into the Holy Spirit.

 

[Duckybill]

They believe in an old heresy called modalism - One God, who changed into Jesus and than changed into the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Dulzurra]

The idea actually is described in the Doctrine of the Incarnation. A doctrine that is accepted by all Catholic churches (orthodox, roman, coptic) and all Protestant churches. It is rejected by heretical groups like JWs, Mormons, SDA, and Oneness Pentecostals. It is a key doctrine of Christianity and a dividing line between orthodoxy and heresy. The fact is, rejection of this doctrine places you outside of Christianity. You are also incorrect about the impossibility of being fully man and fully God - God and humanity are not opposites. I can be fully homo sapien and fully bi-pedal - for example

Do I care to conform to the doctrine of the incarnation just because the majority accept it. No. I will not advocate man devised doctrines of mainstream Christianity especially that of the Babylon RCC Rev 17:5, I only adhere to what God’s word authenticates in the bible not to pseudo biblical doctrines that have been formulated by men’s misinterpretation of scripture that explicitly & logically contradict the bible. Maybe you should consider thoroughly inspecting the origin of your “key doctrine” ascertain whether this was accepted by the original first century N T Christian Church also pay special attention why your creed terms it “mysteries”. Nor am I a JW, Mormon, SDA or any type of Pentecostal so don’t try & label me with your faith’s misconstrued definition of “heretical”groups. The fact is you certainly can place me outside of your mainstream selective “christianity” but you have no authority to place me outside of Genuine Christianity when you uphold men’s ludicrous doctrinal beliefs & not God’s Word!!

You are also incorrect about the impossibility of being fully man and fully God - God and humanity are not opposites. I can be fully homo sapien and fully bi-pedal - for example

Oh please, is it so difficult for you to comprehend the difference between infinite & finite, mortal & immortality. Ponder it for a moment to be both simultaneously is that logical?. As far as your analogy is concerned “fully homo sapien & fully bi-pedal” holds no relevance it doesn’t reconcile anything try another. Please clarify to me how Jesus was fully God if he became flesh & emptied himself of his divinity - (power &immortality) prior to his resurrection, the bible does not state that he was to remain fully God prior to his resurrection Phil 2:5-7;1 John 1:14.

 

[banjo71]

Scripture says that ...
Jesus was NOT going around being "fully God" and able to do everything himself.

Even though Jesus, the man, had God * within him,
He still was a man and needed a lot of help from the Father and the Holy Spirit.
* It's my understanding that he had the Second Person of the Triune God within Him.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives (of Satan)
and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed (by demons)

Luke 5:17
Now it happened on a certain day, as He (Jesus) was teaching,
that there were Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting by,
who had come out of every town of Galilee, Judea, and Jerusalem.
And the power of the Lord was present to heal them (the multitudes).

Hebrews 10:38
... how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power,
who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil,
for God was with Him.

It is also my understanding that Jesus was NOT "fully man"
because since he was "without sin", he did not have man's sin nature.​

Jesus depended on the Father because this is the dynamics of the relationship within the Godhead. He still was God's right hand,God incarnate, but he took direction from the Father because within that incarnation existed the triune Godhead.. In Isaiah he speaks of one being born who would be called "father, counselor, Mighty God,..." I think it's impossible this side of glory to understand perfectly the dynamics of the triune God-head at work in all its dynamics. As far as Jesus being without sin, and not having man's sin nature: this is no proof that Jesus was not fully man. Spirit is spirit, and flesh is flesh. Jesus' had the flesh of a man, fully and completely. His Spirit knew the FAther from the beginning, and when we are saved, we know the Father. The spirit is the part that knows the Father, and is clean, but the flesh is irredeemable. He was just like a typical Christian but since He relied on the FAther and did not succomb to sin, his sacrifice was unblemished.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Scripture says that ...
Jesus was NOT going around being "fully God" and able to do everything himself.

Even though Jesus, the man, had God * within him,
He still was a man and needed a lot of help from the Father and the Holy Spirit.
* It's my understanding that he had the Second Person of the Triune God within Him.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives (of Satan)
and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed (by demons)

Luke 5:17
Now it happened on a certain day, as He (Jesus) was teaching,
that there were Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting by,
who had come out of every town of Galilee, Judea, and Jerusalem.
And the power of the Lord was present to heal them (the multitudes).

Hebrews 10:38
... how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power,
who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil,
for God was with Him.

It is also my understanding that Jesus was NOT "fully man"
because since he was "without sin", he did not have man's sin nature.​

Here you have the most common error of the time. You do not stand alone for by jerking these scriptures from their context to make ´your´ point you have joined the ranks of David Koresh, Jim Jones, the JW´s, the Mormon Church and all other heretics. If you will just begin with Phil.2:5-8 and chain reference through the Bible you will not hold that view. In the future youĺl need to remember the biggest rule of Hermeneutics, ¨Never try to understand any scripture or selections of scripture without the light of all scripture shinning on it.

You have a different savior than I do. One of us is lost.

Sheĺl blow a gasket on you! I pointed that out to her and she went off on me. She may never do a Spiritual Inventory.

 

[John Zain]

1 revelation, 1 explanation, and 1 question …

Jesus was “fully God”
”… the Word (Jesus) was God. … And the Word became flesh …” (John 1:1,14).
”God was manifested in the flesh …” (1 Timothy 3:16).
But, there are several verses saying Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to be able to succeed
in His ministry (esp. to perform miracles), e.g. Luke 4:18, Luke 5:17, Hebrews 10:38.
These verses certainly seem to stand against Jesus being “fully God”.
However, Jesus had to depend on the Holy Spirit because:
The function of the Holy Spirit is to be the Work-Horse.
God the Father never performs any miracles.
God the Son never performs any miracles.
God the Holy Spirit is the only One who performs miracles.
The Father and the Son have different functions.

Jesus was “fully man”
Since Jesus was “fully God”, He could NOT possibly have had a sin nature.
Romans 8:3 indicates that Jesus looked like a normal (sinful) person:
“For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh,
God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin:
He condemned sin in the flesh …” (Romans 8:3).
Many commentaries affirm that this verse is NOT saying that Jesus had a sin nature.
Jesus had NO sin nature because of the Immaculate Conception and the virgin birth.
The Holy Spirit miraculously performed the function of being Jesus’ Father
(Matthew 1:20-25, Luke 1:26-35).

But, one question remains
How can Jesus be considered “fully man”, if He did not have man’s sin nature?

 

[Duckybill]

John 20:28-29 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Yep, Jesus is God. Thomas knew.

 

[Duckybill]

Sheĺl blow a gasket on you! I pointed that out to her and she went off on me. She may never do a Spiritual Inventory.

A JW told me that God is going to destroy me for believing in Jesus/God. Imagine that.

 

[aspen]

Do I care to conform to the doctrine of the incarnation just because the majority accept it. No. I will not advocate man devised doctrines of mainstream Christianity especially that of the Babylon RCC Rev 17:5, I only adhere to what God’s word authenticates in the bible not to pseudo biblical doctrines that have been formulated by men’s misinterpretation of scripture that explicitly & logically contradict the bible. Maybe you should consider thoroughly inspecting the origin of your “key doctrine” ascertain whether this was accepted by the original first century N T Christian Church also pay special attention why your creed terms it “mysteries”. Nor am I a JW, Mormon, SDA or any type of Pentecostal so don’t try & label me with your faith’s misconstrued definition of “heretical”groups. The fact is you certainly can place me outside of your mainstream selective “christianity” but you have no authority to place me outside of Genuine Christianity when you uphold men’s ludicrous doctrinal beliefs & not God’s Word!!

Oh please, is it so difficult for you to comprehend the difference between infinite & finite, mortal & immortality. Ponder it for a moment to be both simultaneously is that logical?. As far as your analogy is concerned “fully homo sapien & fully bi-pedal” holds no relevance it doesn’t reconcile anything try another. Please clarify to me how Jesus was fully God if he became flesh & emptied himself of his divinity - (power &immortality) prior to his resurrection, the bible does not state that he was to remain fully God prior to his resurrection Phil 2:5-7;1 John 1:14.

Excuse me? Have we met? I didn't make the rules, I just follow them. As far as sola scriptura is concerned, it relies on a Church counsel. So before you talk down to me, get your facts straight.

 

[th1b.taylor]

A JW told me that God is going to destroy me for believing in Jesus/God. Imagine that.

They have a lot of opinions, the JWś and none of them align with the Word of God... Hey! Are they greater than God?