Searching for Truth; chaos or cooperation?

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The American theologian Rheinhold Niebuhr believed that it was impossible for brethern to agree upon spiritual truth.

"...the finite character of human perspective and the variety of human viewpoints... make perfect agreement in the search for truth impossible."

I don't agree.

I don't believe that the search for truth results in chaos.

In fact, despite our limited ability to 'know' the truth I believe that it IS possible to know it in part.
Do we not live and enjoy life, yet without 'knowing' all the complex processes at work in our own bodies?
How much more in the spirit of Christ and fellowship?

I don't think our differences divide us.
Actually, I think they add to our common perceptions of what our Lord is saying to us as a whole.

What do you think? Does the journey toward the truth divide us or join us? Does it result in chaos or cooperation?
Do we, in the end, find contentment in the truth or are we merely pacifying ourselves with a fantasy?

 

[Disciple]

I know I am following the truth and I avoid useless babbleings, anyone that is truley in the truth should have fellowship and not disputing..

 

[veteran]

Apostle Paul addressed this matter when he warned about divisions and contention happenning among the Churches in his day. In 1 Cor.1 he admonished us to all speak the same things (i.e., same doctrine).

1 Cor 11:17-19
17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
(KJV)

That last verse above should be an eye-opener. In Galatians 2 Paul warned about false brethren unawares brought in.


1 Cor 3:1-15
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Because of strife by those who were yet carnal, Paul couldn't impart the "strong meat" (Heb.5:12), but instead only the "milk" of God's Truth, which is for babes. Imagine giving an infant steak to eat instead of a bottle of milk. So there's a milk level understanding in God's Word, and then there's a strong meat level understanding in God's Word. The strong meat is about the "spiritual" understanding of God's Word and can go deep. Our carnal nature will prevent its understanding if we follow our carnal nature.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, "I am of Paul"; and another, "I am of Apollos"; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

That's still happenning today in Christ's Church. It's what following men's traditions involves ("Well I go to this Church and believe this way", and another says, "Well I go to this Church and believe that way..."). All that's a working of the carnal nature. It will always be of strife and confusion, creating chaos. That's also the nature false brethren unawares brought in use to create divisions in Christ's Body.

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God That giveth the increase.

It all boils down that following men is a carnal work, for only God can give us understanding and true guidance. His servants are only laborers in the field that plant and water.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(KJV)

The only true foundation is Christ Jesus. Each believer's work will be tried to show of what sort it is, and that's what each believer's rewards will be based on, because our works in Christ Jesus follow us to Heaven (Rev.14:13).

 

[jacobtaylor]

The American theologian Rheinhold Niebuhr believed that it was impossible for brethern to agree upon spiritual truth.

"...the finite character of human perspective and the variety of human viewpoints... make perfect agreement in the search for truth impossible."

I don't agree.

I don't believe that the search for truth results in chaos.

In fact, despite our limited ability to 'know' the truth I believe that it IS possible to know it in part.
Do we not live and enjoy life, yet without 'knowing' all the complex processes at work in our own bodies?
How much more in the spirit of Christ and fellowship?

I don't think our differences divide us.
Actually, I think they add to our common perceptions of what our Lord is saying to us as a whole.

What do you think? Does the journey toward the truth divide us or join us? Does it result in chaos or cooperation?
Do we, in the end, find contentment in the truth or are we merely pacifying ourselves with a fantasy?

Its pretty clear to me many professing Christians are not spirit filled or lead. There will never be a union in these two groups that claim a common bond under the same banner. We have received a warning that this was happening at the time of the Apostles, as well as the latter days. This is perhaps the most effective tool Satan uses. Those looking for the truth not yet being born of the spirit have to sift threw the gauntlet of complete chaos from professing Christians today. Its easily seen on boards like this allover the internet. The high side is threw the spirit the Father desires a personal relationship with his children, not completely dependent on someone else. The current atmosphere with any kind of interpretation available serves to strengthen the spiritual bond, and weaken the doctrines of men. The climate today reinforces the fact that we will stand before Jesus alone not in a group under the banner of a church or another man.

 

[veteran]

Its pretty clear to me many professing Christians are not spirit filled or lead. There will never be a union in these two groups that claim a common bond under the same banner. We have received a warning that this was happening at the time of the Apostles, as well as the latter days. This is perhaps the most effective tool Satan uses. Those looking for the truth not yet being born of the spirit have to sift threw the gauntlet of complete chaos from professing Christians today. Its easily seen on boards like this allover the internet. The high side is threw the spirit the Father desires a personal relationship with his children, not completely dependent on someone else. The current atmosphere with any kind of interpretation available serves to strengthen the spiritual bond, and weaken the doctrines of men. The climate today reinforces the fact that we will stand before Jesus alone not in a group under the banner of a church or another man.

Amen to that.

However, I've seen ideas like "spirit filled" also used as a doctrine of men to mislead. That involves those who claim that if a believer doesn't speak in an unknown tongue then they don't have evidence of The Holy Spirit dwelling in them. That's simply not true, because Apostle Paul taught manifestation of The Holy Spirit is to each servant under different administrations. Word of knowledge and wisdom are two of those administrations (1 Cor.12).

Where the real problem is, is like you say, in not listening to our Heavenly Father and His Son, but relying on man instead. Even with a God-gifted Bible teacher many will instead exalt that called Bible teacher almost like an idol instead of going directly to God's Word to verify with asking The Lord's help in understanding. Apostle Paul was pleased when those at Berea (who had possession of God's Holy Writ) verified for themselves what he taught. I can understand why he was pleased, because it meant God Himself would be giving them understanding directly, simply by their verifying for theirselves with His help.

Another problem is not every believer is at the same level of understanding in God's Word. There's way more still on the "milk" of God's Word when they should be on the "strong meat" to become teachers (Heb.5). Those are still relying on a carnal understanding, which is why those are easily misled by all sorts of doctrines of men. More believers are getting into God's Word for theirselves today, and that's a good thing. But it's going to take some time for their maturity in It through Christ directly. I think that presents some of the reason for confusion today, but not to the level the other reasons create. Many of those don't yet know how to try the spirits, but they will learn as they stay in God's Word asking His help.

And yet another problem is there are some preachers that don't know all of God's Word, and agree to preach only according to an organizational system line that gurantees them a retirement pension. Those will not preach other than the doctrines of men sponsored by the organization, otherwise they'd lose their pension. Jesus called those hirelings that will run when the wolves creep in to scatter the sheep (John 10). Lot of them thus preach for barley and wheat (Ezek.13).

But a God-gifted Bible teacher called by God should be able to cover all of God's Word from Genesis through Revelation, line upon line. And those congregations blessed to have one of those will be fed like our Lord Jesus told Peter to do. The result of that congregation that stays with it will be fruit produced, some a hundred-fold, some sixty-fold, and some thirty-fold (Matt.13).

The last and worst problem is, there are "crept in unawares" within Christ's Body that are there to intentionally mislead congregations away from God's Truth in His Word. Many simply refuse to believe our Heavenly Father and His Son would allow that working. Yet, He and His Apostles continually warned us about those. Obviously, that working is to ensure that ALL believers must go through The Father and The Son especially, and not just rely on man nor religious systems of men. So those represent a trap for those who don't go directly to our Heavenly Father and His Son and stay in His Word for theirselves.

But will God do works through those of His that really have not understanding in all His Word? Yes, as shown by what those of Matt.7:22 will say to Christ with "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?" It will be likewise with the five foolish virgins that didn't have the spare vessel of Oil (Matt.25). Thus having proof of miracles and signs by The Holy Spirit still won't gurantee the believer away from the coming "strong delusion" in the days just prior to Christ's return. But understanding in God's Word by The Holy Spirit with God's sealing will prevent being subject to that future "hour of temptation".

 

[jacobtaylor]

You have added a lot of points that I completely agree with. I don't recommend completely disregarding other men and their ministries I don't. I also don't think all intentionally skew the meaning of the Bible by selecting certain verses, or defining them to support their doctrine. Its a mixed bag. The way the formal church operates today Im sure the Lord can use it and does inspite of heresy. I know some people while listening and following a teaching will threw the Lords spirit raise questions, and bring other scripture in mind that will uncover knowledge to those that need it. As you also pointed out that knowledge is dependent upon the maturity of the recipient. Its no secret that I have had disagreement with some members here that promote a single teaching. To love. I don't disagree but it also needs to be in balance with the fullness of scripture. To be a mature christian. The supporters of this go way over board, they disregard anything in scripture that indicates to them your not acting in love, including God telling Israel to in the OT to wipe out certain groups of people.

I want to take a moment to draw a metaphor in regards to this.
Jesus describes the earth as a field into which He planted good seed, an enemy came in and planted bad seed among the good.

Farmers do this all the time with crops and livestock, they nourish the desired crop. Now lets say you were raising ferrets after several generations lets say you noticed that your ferrets had developed into two distinctive groups. One was very dosel, the other was wild and very aggressive. The farmers "God's" desire is to have ferrets that respond to him and his love for them. The farmer realizes that if he doesn't intervene because of the aggressive and disruptive nature of the wild ones that they will soon over take the desired attributes the farmer started with, making his crop of ferrets unsuitable for market. No one wants a wild unfriendly, biting, disrespectful ferret for a pet.

This was a necessary thinning out of the wild seed that justified the flood, that continued after the flood threw Israel, wiping out bad seed after the flood. We see the same thing in honey bees today, when you combine African and European honey bees you get a less desirable result you get a less friendly bee. Same with crops. If you don't weed out the bad it soon becomes the only crop, it will completely dominate the desired crop. With the advent of the New Covenant, Jesus "Gods" capability is to now gather those that are desired, from the undesired he tells us to let them both grow up together. God has firmly established the good seed from Noah to Abraham to Jesus. Now Hes simply letting this crop grow together, then He will gather the good and burn the bad. Its about understanding Gods plan, the difference between the New and Old Testaments. Threw out the OT God is dealing with the problem of Satan contaminating his entire crop making it useless. He called Noah out "a good seed" and destroyed the bad. This process was repeated in the OT from Noah to Jesus to ensure a good harvest. To this very day the bad crop seeks to infect the good crop. But God Jesus NT has provided a way for the good crop to survive threw Him and His Holy Spirit.