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JBO

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Would you agree the two together "water and spirit" is saying Gospel and Spirit or Word and Spirit? The necessary elements to be born again is first to know Christ through His Gospel, for He is the pure/true water that comes down from heaven to give us eternal life, and Christ's Spirit through the Gospel opens up our ears to hear and gives us a new heart to believe.

I agree water accompanied with physical birth is not how man may be born again.
No, I would not agree the two together "water and spirit" is saying Gospel and Spirit or Word and Spirit? I think Jesus said "water and Spirit" and meant "water and Spirit". Among other things, being born again is the act of having sins forgiven. That is one essential feature of being born again. We know from the Gospels that baptism for the forgiveness of sins was well known from the actions of John the Baptist. And in fact in the very next chapter of the Gospel of John, we read that Jesus was making and baptizing even more disciples than John even though it was the Jesus' disciples that was doing the baptizing.

And in the closing verses of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus gives the command to his disciples that we now refer to as the Great Commission. In that command Jesus said "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." Now the point I want to make here, one that I have many times before, is that baptizing and teaching are participials modifying the command "to make". As such baptizing and teaching are not commands in themselves, but rather describe the method for making disciples. That is the grammatical fact.

Peter's command at Pentecost was not happenstance. He knew full well what he was saying. And he knew what was involved in his command to be baptized (Acts 2:38).

Now I will add here that Peter was not advocating what some refer to as baptismal regeneration. There is no indication that it is baptism that is the agent in the forgiveness of sins. However, there, and in many other passages, the message is clear that baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the sinner, that God forgives his sins. Verse 39 declares that to be the promise to those present and to those far off. That promise being salvation from their sins. And of those present it says that about 3000 that were baptized were saved.
 

rwb

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No, I would not agree the two together "water and spirit" is saying Gospel and Spirit or Word and Spirit? I think Jesus said "water and Spirit" and meant "water and Spirit". Among other things, being born again is the act of having sins forgiven. That is one essential feature of being born again. We know from the Gospels that baptism for the forgiveness of sins was well known from the actions of John the Baptist. And in fact in the very next chapter of the Gospel of John, we read that Jesus was making and baptizing even more disciples than John even though it was the Jesus' disciples that was doing the baptizing.

And in the closing verses of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus gives the command to his disciples that we now refer to as the Great Commission. In that command Jesus said "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." Now the point I want to make here, one that I have many times before, is that baptizing and teaching are participials modifying the command "to make". As such baptizing and teaching are not commands in themselves, but rather describe the method for making disciples. That is the grammatical fact.

Peter's command at Pentecost was not happenstance. He knew full well what he was saying. And he knew what was involved in his command to be baptized (Acts 2:38).

Now I will add here that Peter was not advocating what some refer to as baptismal regeneration. There is no indication that it is baptism that is the agent in the forgiveness of sins. However, there, and in many other passages, the message is clear that baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the sinner, that God forgives his sins. Verse 39 declares that to be the promise to those present and to those far off. That promise being salvation from their sins. And of those present it says that about 3000 that were baptized were saved.

You seem to be arguing against what you earlier said: "The idea that born of water is a reference to physical birth is simply ludicrous."

Why not address how being baptized in water is only capable of cleansing a man outwardly but has not ability to make one clean within?
 

JBO

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You seem to be arguing against what you earlier said: "The idea that born of water is a reference to physical birth is simply ludicrous."

That wasn't me. I believe that born of water has nothing whatsoever to do with physical birth. I believe that is a really stupid argument.
Why not address how being baptized in water is only capable of cleansing a man outwardly but has not ability to make one clean within?
It is not about what being baptized in water is capable of doing. It is about what God can do when the repentant believer is baptized in water.
 

BreadOfLife

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So, you are denying that your Pope is worshipping Mary, as the Cult of Mary does?
You should try to be more honest,.....
Would you mind showing me the official teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that teaches us to “worship” Mary – oo anybody other than God?
Yeah – I didn’t think so.

You’re full of more hot wind than a grazing cow – but woefully devoid of
FACTS . . .
And if that is too much for you, then at least notice that in the Photo Below, the Plastic Queen Mary, has no Jesus anywhere near her.

Why would Catholics Kneel before Plastic Statues of Mary, that have no baby Jesus, or even a Grown Plastic Jesus, anywhere near her?
Its because its the "CULT of MARY".. not the "Cult of Jesus">

Do you understand?
I think you do.
And you can believe most of the members here, understand this Cult situation, perfectly...
We kneel in prayer to God all of the time.

We don’t need a statue to do it. A statue, a crucifix, a painting - they are simply reminders. They’re not the object of our prayers, Einstein.
THAT would be idolatry . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I would suggest that you honestly consider..... that a person who prays to a 20 Ft tall plastic statue of Mary = is lost inside a Cultish obsession, and a person who follows this Cult as having what you defined as a ""marginal IQ."""
In other words – I STUMPED you with the photos of people on their knees - NOT in “worship” of graven images or each other.

That’s what I
thought . . .
Yes that is true..
Any of the Protestant bibles you can find will say, ""born of water.."" as that is the verse making the distinction between the earth birth, whereby you mother's water breaks, and out you came......vs, the spiritual birth, that creates the "new creation" "In Christ".

But only the Satanic Catholic Bible, that produced you, says.. ."Born AGAIN of water".. or "Born AGAIN, by Water".

See, no CHRISTian is "born again by or of, water"..,. as they are born again by the Holy Spirit.... not by water as the Unholy Catholic Cult Bible, teaches their deceived followers.

See, you forget to read carefully, the Protestant bibles, as none of them say..."born AGAIN, by or of, Water"...
Its only the "cult of Mary" Satanic Bible, that teaches that you are "BORN AGAIN.... by water".

Be careful that you note the difference, before you run back in here to show us your next tantrum, or i'll assume that you also can't read.
WOW.

We are ALL born again OF water and the Spirit (John 3:5). This is a direct allusion to Baptism. In case you missed it, Einstein – Nicodemus was asking Jesus how a man is born AGAIN.

John 3:3-4

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are BORN AGAIN.”

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”


Pay attention – you might learn something . . .
 

Behold

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Yeah – I didn’t think so.



Listen, ive not read a post by you, in 3 yrs that suggests to me that you can "think".
You just yell, and are perceived on this Forum, as being a rude, biblically ignorant, Catholic Water Cult Tool.
But i know your eyes are working if nothing behind them is cooperating, apparently. (according to your posts).

Here you go.. and notice that this person in the Halloween suit who is holding the sceptre , is not kneeling.
He's "worshiping" his Plastic Goddess.
That's his Job.
-Queen of Water.jpg
 
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Ritajanice

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Looking to get banned?

Listen, ive not read a post by you, in 3 yrs that suggests to me that you can "think".
You just yell, and are perceived as being a rude, biblically ignorant, Catholic Cult Tool.
But i know your eyes are working if nothing behind them is cooperating, apparently. (according to your posts).

Here you go.. and notice that this person in the Halloween suit is not kneeling.
He "worshiping" his Goddess.
That's his Job.
-View attachment 38786
Brother....I:don’t think he’s understanding the Living Spiritual Birth?

I think he means we are Born in water as in the fluid that is in the womb and we are Born with our own spirit.....which has to be Born Again....by the Living word of God?
 

Behold

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Brother....I:don’t think he’s understanding the Living Spiritual Birth?

I think he means we are Born in water as in the fluid that is in the womb and we are Born with our own spirit.....which has to be Born Again....by the Living word of God?

He's typical of Catholics and similar who read "born of water" and of "the Spirit" and combined them as one situation = Water Baptism.

This is one of the most common false doctrines in the world, regarding religious people.
Many of whom, will die today, water baptized and go directly to hell, and wonder why, after they are there.

If you tell them, you have to be BORN of your mother,.., .so that you can be BORN AGAIN... in the Spirit, they look at that reality as if they are trying to figure out something difficult to understand.
And obviously it is for these water cult people.
And how simple is that, to understand, .. yet, when a CULT ,, a WATER CULT.. that was originated as the RCC has led them to believe that WATER Baptism is "born of water" or "born again BY water", then they are unable to even think logically, much less with any spiritual discernment.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Listen, ive not read a post by you, in 3 yrs that suggests to me that you can "think".
You just yell, and are perceived on this Forum, as being a rude, biblically ignorant, Catholic Water Cult Tool.
But i know your eyes are working if nothing behind them is cooperating, apparently. (according to your posts).

Here you go.. and notice that this person in the Halloween suit who is holding the sceptre , is not kneeling.
He's "worshiping" his Plastic Goddess.
That's his Job.
Sooooo – ALL of these people are “WPORSHIPPING” the graven images of your Protestant Fathers??
The sad part is that you don’t have a CLUE as to how incredibly childish and stupid you sound . . .
Ref%20Wall%201.jpg


I asked you to show me the official teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that teaches us to “worship” Mary – or anybody other than God?
You failedas you guys ALWAYS do when I issue a challenge . . .
 

Behold

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Sooooo – ALL of these people

Here is a thought for you to try to land.

How can you "bless Gay married couples", and this not be an approval of same sex marriage?

How can "BLESSINGS" be given to Gay Married Couples by the POPE and this not be an ENDORSEMENT of their Sexual Perversion Lifestyle?

So, once again the cult of mary is trying to slither in, snake style, their approval of sin, by WORD PLAY.
-
-
""""""Pope Francis has granted his formal approval allowing Catholic priests to bless same-sex couples so long as they do not appear to endorse their marriage, marking the church's most permissive decree yet on the issue of same-sex couples."""""
 

Rockerduck

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Sooooo – ALL of these people are “WPORSHIPPING” the graven images of your Protestant Fathers??
The sad part is that you don’t have a CLUE as to how incredibly childish and stupid you sound . . .
Ref%20Wall%201.jpg


I asked you to show me the official teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that teaches us to “worship” Mary – or anybody other than God?
You failedas you guys ALWAYS do when I issue a challenge . . .
They are tourists taking pictures.
 

BreadOfLife

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Brother....I:don’t think he’s understanding the Living Spiritual Birth?

I think he means we are Born in water as in the fluid that is in the womb and we are Born with our own spirit.....which has to be Born Again....by the Living word of God?
He's typical of Catholics and similar who read "born of water" and of "the Spirit" and combined them as one situation = Water Baptism.

This is one of the most common false doctrines in the world, regarding religious people.
Many of whom, will die today, water baptized and go directly to hell, and wonder why, after they are there.

If you tell them, you have to be BORN of your mother,.., .so that you can be BORN AGAIN... in the Spirit, they look at that reality as if they are trying to figure out something difficult to understand.
And obviously it is for these water cult people.
And how simple is that, to understand, .. yet, when a CULT ,, a WATER CULT.. that was originated as the RCC has led them to believe that WATER Baptism is "born of water" or "born again BY water", then they are unable to even think logically, much less with any spiritual discernment.
Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

In John 1, we see the Baptism of Jesus. What are the TWO elements present??
WATER and the SPIRIT.

2 chapters later, Nicodemus asks Jesus how a man is born AGAIN.
Jesus tells him he must be born of WATER and the SPIRIT (John 3:5).

1 Pet. 3:21 - Peter writes that just as Noah and his family were SAVED through water – Baptism now SAVES us.

Acts 2:38 - Peter
tells the crowd at Pentecost:
“"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:1-7 - While in Ephesus, Paul came across some disciples. Were they “saved”? NO.
Paul told them they needed to receive the Holy spirit, so he BAPTIZED them and they received the Spirit.

Mark 16:16
Jesus states emphatically:

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

Water Baptism is necessary for salvation.
Be very careful about rejecting the commands of
Christ . . .
 
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Ritajanice

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Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

In John 1, we see the Baptism of Jesus. What are the TWO elements present??
WATER and the SPIRIT.

2 chapters later, Nicodemus asks Jesus how a man is born AGAIN.
Jesus tells him he must be born of WATER and the SPIRIT (John 3:5).

1 Pet. 3:21 - Peter writes that just as Noah and his family were SAVED through water – Baptism now SAVES us.

Acts 2:38 - Peter
tells the crowd at Pentecost:
“"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:1-7 - While in Ephesus, Paul came across some disciples. Were they “saved”? NO.
Paul told them they needed to receive the Holy spirit, so he BAPTIZED them and they received the Spirit.

Mark 16:16
Jesus states emphatically:

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

Water Baptism is necessary for salvation.
Be very careful about rejecting the commands of
Christ . . .
You can’t give me no bible lesson , oh the arrogance of it.

I’m Born Again, Born of God, testifying with our spirit that we are children of God....testifying through his Holy Spirit all day every day, that we are his children.

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God....Spirit gives birth to spirit....which only God can do, via the Holy Spirit...

Water gets you wet...one must be baptised in the Spirit only.....water baptism is a symbol of obedience to our Lord....there is only one baptism that saves us from eternal damnation...that is Spirit gives birth to spirit..

I only listen to the Holy Spirit and run from strange teachings..

I stand on the Living word of God......and will continue to do so.....as I am led to by the Spirit...

And please watch your tongue..or I will report you.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV​

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Bible Gateway Proverbs 15 :: NIV. A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly. The eyes of the LORD are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Here is a thought for you to try to land.

How can you "bless Gay married couples", and this not be an approval of same sex marriage?

How can "BLESSINGS" be given to Gay Married Couples by the POPE and this not be an ENDORSEMENT of their Sexual Perversion Lifestyle?

So, once again the cult of mary is trying to slither in, snake style, their approval of sin, by WORD PLAY.
-
""""""Pope Francis has granted his formal approval allowing Catholic priests to bless same-sex couples so long as they do not appear to endorse their marriage, marking the church's most permissive decree yet on the issue of same-sex couples."""""
In your usual blind ignorance - you missed the point.

This announcement didn’t need to be made because individual, non-sacramental blessings have always been the norm. It’s NOT a blessing of the people as a couple – but of the individuals.

The Church condemns ACTIONS – not souls, which is the exact opposite of many Protestant sects.
 

BreadOfLife

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You can’t give me no bible lesson , oh the arrogance of it.
That, in itself is an incredibly arrogant statement.
We ALL have MUCH to learn from Scripture.

I’m Born Again, Born of God, testifying with our spirit that we are children of God....testifying through his Holy Spirit all day every day, that we are his children.

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God....Spirit gives birth to spirit....which only God can do, via the Holy Spirit...

Water gets you wet...one must be baptised in the Spirit only.....water baptism is a symbol of obedience to our Lord....there is only one baptism that saves us from eternal damnation...that is Spirit gives birth to spirit..

I only listen to the Holy Spirit and run from strange teachings..

I stand on the Living word of God......and will continue to do so.....as I am led to by the Spirit...
Yes it does.

As tangible, physical beings - God often uses tangible, physical means to convey His grace.
Did Jesus NEED to use mud to heal the Blind man?

The
SAME is true for Water Baptism . . .
And please watch your tongue..or I will report you.
Report me for WHAT??
For teaching the Gospel to you?
 

Ritajanice

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That, in itself is an incredibly arrogant statement.
We ALL have MUCH to learn from Scripture.

Yes it does.

As tangible, physical beings - God often uses tangible, physical means to convey His grace.
Did Jesus NEED to use mud to heal the Blind man?


The SAME is true for Water Baptism . . .

Report
me for WHAT??
For teaching the Gospel to you?
I will report you ,if I see you bad mouth members....which you often do.

You are not teaching me anything.....you are teaching manmade theology imo....

What has mud got to do with being Born of God by his Spirit?

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

We are called to test the spirits and I do....as I said...are you listening?....I don’t listen to a “ strangers voice”.
 

BreadOfLife

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I will report you ,if I see you bad mouth members....which you often do.
I’m not “bad-mouthing” anybody. I am merely exposing fallacies.
This is a debate site. If you don’t like debates – I suggest you spend your time elsewhere . . .

You are not teaching me anything.....you are teaching manmade theology imo....

What has mud got to do with being Born of God by his Spirit?
This statement alone proves that you need some teaching . . .
Spirit gives birth to spirit?

We are called to test the spirits and I do....as I said...are you listening?....I don’t listen to a “ strangers voice”.
If my points were wrong – why don’t you try refuting them instead of whining?
 

Ritajanice

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I’m not “bad-mouthing” anybody. I am merely exposing fallacies.
This is a debate site. If you don’t like debates – I suggest you spend your time elsewhere . . .
You are behaving at the moment...you have bad mouthed members in the not so long ago past...

This is a debate site....so debate?
This statement alone proves that you need some teaching . . .

If my points were wrong – why don’t you try refuting them instead of
whining?
Your points are very wrong....mud has got nothing to do with being Born Again/ Born of God.....and try refuting the word of God that I posted?

I ask again..what has mud got to do with being Born Again?

We are Born Again by the “ LIVING “ word of God.....God is a Living Spirit, you know that right?

His word is Alive and Active?

Mud does not birth us into Christ....Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Not mud gives birth to spirit
 
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BreadOfLife

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You are behaving at the moment..you have bad mouthed members in the not so long ago past...

This is a debate site....so debate?
Have you seen what MANY of them have called me?
Where's
your outrage about that?

Your points are very wrong....mud has got nothing to do with being Born Again/ Born of God.....and try refuting the word of God that I posted?

I ask again..what has mud got to do with being Born Again?

We are Born Again by the “ LIVING “ word of God.....God is a Living Spirit, you know that right?

His word is Alive and Active?

Mud does not birth us into Christ....Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Not mud gives birth to spirit
WOW.

NOBODY said that mud had anything to so with being born again.
Hypocrisy is an ugly thing . . .

I was explaining to you that Jesus uses PHYSICAL and TANGIBLE means to convey His grace – just as He does with water Baptism.

Can you understand that?
It’s NOT that difficult.