Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[Netchaplain]

This OP is for attempting a combined participation from those who are desiring to know more about the permanency of faith and salvation. I am presenting a couple passages to attempt to initiate interest in others who might desire to list whatever passages they can find relating to this issue that we can analyze together. The reason for my interest in dealing more with this issue is due to the fact that I believe it is the most significant Bible doctrine related to spiritual growth in the “image of Christ.”

2Pet 2:20
“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ . . .” They can obtain mental peace (escape) merely through knowing (but not understanding) Christ’s Gospel and acting in outward motions of false professions and works, but if they have not truly desired to be in His Gospel it will eventually manifest itself when “they are again entangled in them and overcome.”

2Pe 2:21
“For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.” This describes only “knowing the way,” but instead of following it they “turn from it,” and continue as they were.

This parallels Heb 10:26: “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth . . .” (Heb 10:26). Both of these passages are a description of one merely receiving the knowledge of the truth but not receiving the “truth.” In other words, choosing to continue as they were, even after becoming aware of “the truth,” but not choosing to receive and follow it.


A Couple Commentator Examples:

Albert Barnes (1798–1870):
“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world” - This does not necessarily mean that they had been true Christians, and had fallen from grace. People may outwardly reform, and escape from the open corruptions which prevail around them, or which they had themselves practiced, and still have no true grace at heart.

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesses Christ” - Neither does this imply that they were true Christians, or that they had ever had any saving knowledge of the Redeemer. There is a knowledge of the doctrines and duties of religion which may lead sinners to abandon their outward vices, which has no connection with saving grace. They may profess religion, and may know enough of religion to understand that it requires them to abandon their vicious habits, and still never be true Christians.

“For it had been better for them …” It would have been better for them, for:

(1) Then they would not have dishonored the cause of religion as they have now done.

(2) They would not have sunk so deep in profligacy as they now have.

(3) They would not have incurred so aggravated a condemnation in the world of woe. If people are resolved on being wicked, they had better never pretend to be good. If they are to be cast off at last, it had better not be as apostates from the cause of virtue and religion.
2 Peter 2 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible


John Gill (1697–1771):
“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world....” The sins of it, the governing vices of it, which the men of the world are addicted to, and immersed in; for the whole world lies in wickedness, and which are of a defiling nature: the phrase is Rabbinical; it is said {q}, "he that studies not in the law in this world, but is defiled amle ypwnjb, "with the pollutions of the world," what is written of him? and they took him, and cast him without:" these, men may escape, abstain from, and outwardly reform, with respect unto, and yet be destitute of the grace of God; so that this can be no instance of the final and total apostasy of real saints; for the house may be swept and garnished with an external reformation; persons may be outwardly righteous before men, have a form of godliness and a name to live, and yet be dead in trespasses and sins; all which they may have

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” The Vulgate Latin, and all the Oriental versions, read, our Lord, and the latter leave out, "and Saviour"; by which "knowledge" is meant, not a spiritual experimental knowledge of Christ, for that is eternal life, the beginning, pledge, and earnest of it; but a notional knowledge of Christ, or a profession of knowledge of him, for it may be rendered "acknowledgment"; or rather the Gospel of Christ, which, being only notionally received, may have such an effect on men, as outwardly to reform their lives, at least in some instances, and for a while, in whose hearts it has no place.

“For it had been better for them....” Not that ignorance is good, or to be excused; but it would have been a lesser evil, and not so much aggravated:

“Not to have known the way of righteousness”; the same with "the way of truth," 2 Peter 2:2, and "the right way," 2 Peter 2:15, the Gospel, which points out the way and method of a sinner's justification before God, which is not by the works of the law, but by the righteousness of Christ imputed to them, and received by faith; and which teaches men to live soberly, righteously, and godly; and a large, notional, though not an experimental knowledge, these apostates had of the word and doctrine of righteousness, and indeed of the whole of the Christian religion, which may truly go by this name:

“Then after they have known [it]”; owned, embraced, and professed it:

“To turn”: the Vulgate Latin version, and some copies, as the Alexandrian and others, add, to that which is behind; to their former lusts, or errors, or worse, which they had turned their backs upon externally.

“From the holy commandment delivered unto them”; by the commandment is meant the Gospel also, see 2 Peter 3:2; called holy, because of its nature and influence, and in opposition to the pollutions of the world; and which is the faith once delivered, Jude 1:3, and which they received, as delivered to them; and, particularly, the ordinances of it, which they once submitted to, kept, and observed, as they were delivered to them, but now relinquished, or corrupted: wherefore, it would have been better for them to have been in their former ignorance, either in Judaism, or in Gentilism, since proportionate to a man's light is his guilt, and so his punishment, see Romans 2:12.
2 Peter 2 - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible - Bible Commentary

 

[Triumph1300]

Oh, boy, another thread on this issue?

 

[epostle1]

I think a majority of Christians cannot lose their salvation, provided the persevere to the end. The "assurance" we get is after death, and not before. There is no trace of OSAS being taught anywhere on the planet until John Calvin invented it.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It would of been easy to have OSAS written in the Bible but in fact it never was.

I believe that once truly born again then you are saved in Christ Grace and you can not loose that ever, it's because you are truly of the Holy Spirit, but before that you can drop off the Vine, I have seen that with most that went to Church, how many have I come across that say to me oh you don't still believe in that crap do you, to right I do I say and I will sit down with them till the cows come home to inform them of why it is so.

I would not however boast that I am going to Heaven to other people, that would be a Sin of pride.
Many say to me that I should be declaring to the world that I am going to Heaven and if I do not do as such that I must not truly believe that I am, fact is I do not care what any man says or thinks.
It's like as if stupid people believe what one says, oh Jack is going to Heaven because he says so ? BS ! stupid people look up to this boasting crap, but such boasting means nothing to me.

I will abide in the Vine and leave it up to Jesus Christ to say and that's all anyone can do in fact.

All water baptised Christians are not going to Heaven, narrow is the gate, not the wide in fact it is said. I would not worry tho because if you do truly believe you have hope and not all are given the gift but one has to pick up that gift you have been given regardless, so some are given more, but don't be worried because you have less than another.

I hate OSAS dished up because it's used as mans works trump card, not to mention many do not have Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they only use this as a crutch for their own works of man ego trip and Political Correctness god they truly do idolise.

 

[Triumph1300]

I would not however boast that I am going to Heaven

I do.
I go to heaven.

 

[Triumph1300]

Here's another one who said he's going to heaven.

 

[APAK]

This OP is for attempting a combined participation from those who are desiring to know more about the permanency of faith and salvation. I am presenting a couple passages to attempt to initiate interest in others who might desire to list whatever passages they can find relating to this issue that we can analyze together. The reason for my interest in dealing more with this issue is due to the fact that I believe it is the most significant Bible doctrine related to spiritual growth in the “image of Christ.”

2Pet 2:20
“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ . . .” They can obtain mental peace (escape) merely through knowing (but not understanding) Christ’s Gospel and acting in outward motions of false professions and works, but if they have not truly desired to be in His Gospel it will eventually manifest itself when “they are again entangled in them and overcome.”

2Pe 2:21
“For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.” This describes only “knowing the way,” but instead of following it they “turn from it,” and continue as they were.

This parallels Heb 10:26: “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth . . .” (Heb 10:26). Both of these passages are a description of one merely receiving the knowledge of the truth but not receiving the “truth.” In other words, choosing to continue as they were, even after becoming aware of “the truth,” but not choosing to receive and follow it.


A Couple Commentator Examples:

Albert Barnes (1798–1870):
“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world” - This does not necessarily mean that they had been true Christians, and had fallen from grace. People may outwardly reform, and escape from the open corruptions which prevail around them, or which they had themselves practiced, and still have no true grace at heart.

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesses Christ” - Neither does this imply that they were true Christians, or that they had ever had any saving knowledge of the Redeemer. There is a knowledge of the doctrines and duties of religion which may lead sinners to abandon their outward vices, which has no connection with saving grace. They may profess religion, and may know enough of religion to understand that it requires them to abandon their vicious habits, and still never be true Christians.

“For it had been better for them …” It would have been better for them, for:

(1) Then they would not have dishonored the cause of religion as they have now done.

(2) They would not have sunk so deep in profligacy as they now have.

(3) They would not have incurred so aggravated a condemnation in the world of woe. If people are resolved on being wicked, they had better never pretend to be good. If they are to be cast off at last, it had better not be as apostates from the cause of virtue and religion.
2 Peter 2 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible


John Gill (1697–1771):
“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world....” The sins of it, the governing vices of it, which the men of the world are addicted to, and immersed in; for the whole world lies in wickedness, and which are of a defiling nature: the phrase is Rabbinical; it is said {q}, "he that studies not in the law in this world, but is defiled amle ypwnjb, "with the pollutions of the world," what is written of him? and they took him, and cast him without:" these, men may escape, abstain from, and outwardly reform, with respect unto, and yet be destitute of the grace of God; so that this can be no instance of the final and total apostasy of real saints; for the house may be swept and garnished with an external reformation; persons may be outwardly righteous before men, have a form of godliness and a name to live, and yet be dead in trespasses and sins; all which they may have

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” The Vulgate Latin, and all the Oriental versions, read, our Lord, and the latter leave out, "and Saviour"; by which "knowledge" is meant, not a spiritual experimental knowledge of Christ, for that is eternal life, the beginning, pledge, and earnest of it; but a notional knowledge of Christ, or a profession of knowledge of him, for it may be rendered "acknowledgment"; or rather the Gospel of Christ, which, being only notionally received, may have such an effect on men, as outwardly to reform their lives, at least in some instances, and for a while, in whose hearts it has no place.

“For it had been better for them....” Not that ignorance is good, or to be excused; but it would have been a lesser evil, and not so much aggravated:

“Not to have known the way of righteousness”; the same with "the way of truth," 2 Peter 2:2, and "the right way," 2 Peter 2:15, the Gospel, which points out the way and method of a sinner's justification before God, which is not by the works of the law, but by the righteousness of Christ imputed to them, and received by faith; and which teaches men to live soberly, righteously, and godly; and a large, notional, though not an experimental knowledge, these apostates had of the word and doctrine of righteousness, and indeed of the whole of the Christian religion, which may truly go by this name:

“Then after they have known [it]”; owned, embraced, and professed it:

“To turn”: the Vulgate Latin version, and some copies, as the Alexandrian and others, add, to that which is behind; to their former lusts, or errors, or worse, which they had turned their backs upon externally.

“From the holy commandment delivered unto them”; by the commandment is meant the Gospel also, see 2 Peter 3:2; called holy, because of its nature and influence, and in opposition to the pollutions of the world; and which is the faith once delivered, Jude 1:3, and which they received, as delivered to them; and, particularly, the ordinances of it, which they once submitted to, kept, and observed, as they were delivered to them, but now relinquished, or corrupted: wherefore, it would have been better for them to have been in their former ignorance, either in Judaism, or in Gentilism, since proportionate to a man's light is his guilt, and so his punishment, see Romans 2:12.
2 Peter 2 - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible - Bible Commentary

Love the topic and your OP. I must have been reading your mind. Several hours back I was challenging someone to do scripture study on this very same subject. I will add verses later...getting late here.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[epostle1]

I have a scripture study. Scripture citations are followed by a brief exegesis.

Jesus’ Teaching on Losing Salvation
Matt. 7:18 – Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.

Matt. 7:21 – all those who say “Lord, Lord” on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.

Matt. 22:14 – Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.

Luke 8:13 – Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

Luke 12:42-46 – we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”

John 6:70-71 – Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

John 15:1-10 – we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

John 17:12 – we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.

John 6:37 – those who continue to come to Jesus He won’t cast out. But it’s a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.

John 6:39 – Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.

John 6:40 – everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person “continues” to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.

John 6:44 – Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father “draws” him. This “drawing” is an ongoing process.

John 10:27-28 – when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).

Rev. 3:4 – in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.

Rev. 3:5 – Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.

Rev. 3:11 – Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.

Rev. 13:10; 14:12 – we are called from heaven for the endurance and faith of the saints, keeping the commandments and faith.

Rev. 21:7 – we must conquer in order to share in our heritage and become a true son of Jesus.

Rev. 22:19 – we can have a share in the tree of life in God’s holy city and yet have that share taken away from us.

 

[APAK]

@kepha31:

Concerning Matt 7:18..

(Mat 7:15) "Be on your guard against false prophets; they come to you looking like sheep on the outside, but on the inside they are really like wild wolves.
(Mat 7:16) You will know them by what they do. Thorn bushes do not bear grapes, and briers do not bear figs.
(Mat 7:17) A healthy tree bears good fruit, but a poor tree bears bad fruit.

(Mat 7:18) A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a poor tree cannot bear good fruit.

(Mat 7:19) And any tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire.
(Mat 7:20) So then, you will know the false prophets by what they do. (ALL NEV)

Matt 7-18 is a part of scripture that speaks to false prophets and their teachings. The symbol of the tree is a person of falsehood and lies or one of truth.

It is clear that a healthy or good tree is a person of truth and a poor or evil tree has not truth. The latter person is the false prophet and clearly has not be given salvation or know the truth.

Other translations.

(Mat 7:18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. (DRB)
(Mat 7:18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.(KJV)

Thus, there is nothing here about someone losing their salvation.
Curious about where you got your creative interpretation of verse 18 and your context

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

@kepha31 :

(Mat 7:21) Not everyone that says to me: Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that pleases my Father who is in heaven.
(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name cast out demons and in your name do many mighty works?
(Mat 7:23) And then will I tell them: I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity. (ALL NEV)

Again, verse 21 has nothing to do with losing one’s salvation once given.

Verse 21-23 is similar to verse 18. These folks never acquired salvation from God in the first place. They we imposters of the truth and false teachers. These people practiced evil in the eyes of God and Jesus.

Other translations:

(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.(DRB)
(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)

Some one who is saved does the will of God or has the capacity to his will (not 100% in our corrupt state for sure) even minimally as the spirit of God provokes this obedience at times within us. It is impossible for one that is not saved to do the will of God at all.

Many 'think' they are saved and believe they are doing the will of God. They are fooling themselves. Verse 21 applies to them.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

@kepha31 :

(Mat 22:1) And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
(Mat 22:2) The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
(Mat 22:3) And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
(Mat 22:4) Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
(Mat 22:5) But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
(Mat 22:6) And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
(Mat 22:7) But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
(Mat 22:8) Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
(Mat 22:9) Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
(Mat 22:10) So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
(Mat 22:11) And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
(Mat 22:12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
(Mat 22:13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 22:14) For many are called, but few are chosen. (ALL NEV)

The Kingdom of God as a marriage and banquet scene for the King Jesus.

There were many that God expected to reach out and desire salvation through his King Jesus. They were the relatives, neighbors, friends and people the King (Jesus) knew locally. They did not come to salvation and thus into the Kingdom.

From these expected ones to salvation, there were a few that even despised the gospel of the King and salvation and even killed the King’s messengers and followers. The King blotted out their names to Kingdom and eternal life. The King made sure they would not be counted amongst the saved.

Then there were the drifters, the outsiders from other areas that the King never knew. The King’s messengers preached to them the gospel of the Kingdom and salvation. Many did come to the King’s event. Some tries to sneak in and came through their own efforts and their own way. They were rejected and barred from the marriage banquet. They were greatly disappointed.

Yes, indeed many were called although few are chosen, because they must hear and accept the gospel message of salvation first, confess and repent of their sins, truly believe that leaded to a saving faith that God ONLY provides (Eph 2:8-9) through his grace as a GIFT to regeneration and thus salvation, for life.

Again, it is very obvious that verse 14 has nothing to do with one losing their salvation once obtained from God. Only those that reject salvation and even ‘try to do it their own way’ will be thrown out of the Kingdom.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

@kepha31 :

(Luk 8:9) And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
(Luk 8:10) And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
(Luk 8:11) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
(Luk 8:12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
(Luk 8:13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
(Luk 8:14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
(Luk 8:15) But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Verse 11: Jesus points out that gospel message and all that it entails is the seed

Verse 12: Some hear the gospel message as a seed to their hearts, Unfortunately, the evil within their natural hearts caused by their natural minds throws the seed out as soon as it enters the heart. These people DO NOT believe the gospel and thus cannot be saved.

Verse 13: These people are happy to hear the gospel message for salvation. They believe the message although they never confessed and then repented of their sins. That is why when tempted with sin they stopped in their belief immediately. They never genuinely believed the gospel and ALL that it required for salvation. They did not receive the saving faith (the root ,that is the gift from God) for salvation.

Again, there is nothing here in verse 13 saying that one loses their salvation once received by God.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

@kepha31 :


(Luk 12:42) And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
(Luk 12:43) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
(Luk 12:44) Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
(Luk 12:45) But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
(Luk 12:46) The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. (ALL NEV)

Jesus is saying that the faithful believer shall gain eternal life or salvation in glorification of a new body (verse 42).

The believer shall be blessed by being obedient or performing the will of God (verse 43).

Now Jesus is also saying that this believer with have the TRUTH within him in order to be obedient (verse 44). This is the overlooked verse.

And how do we get the truth within us? By being saved with the saving faith from God and not ourselves. We cannot acquire the saving faith by ourselves. And thus, we will not know the truth, and thus we cannot ever be obedient do God’s will.

Now if this person has the truth and salvation he is a true believer. If this person is not, he will eventually say to himself, I’m getting impatient waiting for the things that I was promised and got ‘back’ into the world full force (by reading the act committed) and of out his own devices with an evil heart (verse 45). The Lord Jesus upon his return will easily know this imposter as he has not the truth and spirit of regeneration within, and place him with the rest of the unbelievers (verse 46). This person again never had the ‘root’ the saving faith, to salvation. Never had the truth!

Again, there is nothing in these verses that suggests that one loses their salvation upon receiving it by God.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Netchaplain]

I think a majority of Christians cannot lose their salvation, provided the persevere to the end. The "assurance" we get is after death, and not before. There is no trace of OSAS being taught anywhere on the planet until John Calvin invented it.

Hi K31, and I appreciate your reply. Myself, I have yet to find a Bible commentator that does not support this truth. I remember it took me about 15 years after studying the Bible that I came to understand this truth. This is the same for others and I find this delay interesting because it's the most important doctrine, not for receiving faith but growing in it.

 

[Netchaplain]

I believe that once truly born again then you are saved in Christ Grace and you can not loose that ever, it's because you are truly of the Holy Spirit, but before that you can drop off the Vine

Appreciate your input RG! I do not believe we become a branch of the Vine until rebirth.

Blessings!

 

[Netchaplain]

Luke 8:13 – Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

"Which for a while believe": their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24--NC); which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped."
Luke 8 - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible - Bible Commentary

I would suggest viewing the other passage at the link above! Not challenging your present understanding, just encouraging you to test it.

The most obvious outward evidence of faith is continuance!

Blessings!

 

[Netchaplain]

The Lord Jesus upon his return will easily know this impostor as he has not the truth and spirit of regeneration within, and place him with the rest of the unbelievers (verse 46). This person again never had the ‘root’ the saving faith, to salvation. Never had the truth!

Again, there is nothing in these verses that suggests that one loses their salvation upon receiving it by God.

Bless you,

APAK

Hi APAK, and appreciate your laborious replies and support!

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[epostle1]

@kepha31 :


(Luk 12:42) And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
(Luk 12:43) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
(Luk 12:44) Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
(Luk 12:45) But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
(Luk 12:46) The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. (ALL NEV)

Jesus is saying that the faithful believer shall gain eternal life or salvation in glorification of a new body (verse 42).

The believer shall be blessed by being obedient or performing the will of God (verse 43).

Now Jesus is also saying that this believer with have the TRUTH within him in order to be obedient (verse 44). This is the overlooked verse.

And how do we get the truth within us? By being saved with the saving faith from God and not ourselves. We cannot acquire the saving faith by ourselves. And thus, we will not know the truth, and thus we cannot ever be obedient do God’s will.

Now if this person has the truth and salvation he is a true believer. If this person is not, he will eventually say to himself, I’m getting impatient waiting for the things that I was promised and got ‘back’ into the world full force (by reading the act committed) and of out his own devices with an evil heart (verse 45). The Lord Jesus upon his return will easily know this imposter as he has not the truth and spirit of regeneration within, and place him with the rest of the unbelievers (verse 46). This person again never had the ‘root’ the saving faith, to salvation. Never had the truth!

Again, there is nothing in these verses that suggests that one loses their salvation upon receiving it by God.

Bless you,

APAK

If we are forced to remain saved, then we have no free will.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The OP cites two CALVINISTIC commentators who introduced their Calvinistic biases into the texts. On another forum I have participated on (CARM) I recently brought up the 2 Peter 2 context on that forum showing how it disproves OSAS.

2 Pet 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

The Calvinistic response, as least from one Calvinist, was simply to deny that "bought" as used in 2 Peter 2:1 has anything to do with salvation, nothing to do with being redeemed by the blood of Christ. To which I responded with:

(1)

2 Pet 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

The epistle is being written to Christians and the pronoun "you" refers to Christians. These false teacher would come from among Christians even denying the Lord that had bought them, with "among you" contrasted from "among the people"

It takes such a great strain to deny "the Lord/Master" refers to someone other than Christ. If "the Lord" does not refer to Christ, then what man is Peter saying had redeemed (past tense) them?



(2)

1 Pet 1:18-19 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"

Again, Peter here is writing to Christians who had been "redeemed....with the precious blood of Christ". And it would be from among those who had been bought/redeemed by Christ's blood that false teachers would come per 2 Pet 2:1 where there would be false teachers among "you" with "you" referring to those redeemed by the blood of Christ per 1 Pet 1:18-19.


(3)

2 Pet 2:1 begins with "but" a contrasting word where Peter is making a contrast between true prophets of 2 Pet 1:16-21 from the "false prophets among the people". These false prophets among the people is an OT reference. There among the elect of Israel came those that prophesied falsely and Peter then says to those Christians he was writing to "even there shall be false teachers among you". So false prophets can and do come from God's elect, both OT and NT,.....false prophets come from among those that have been 'bought'.

(4)

2 Pet 2:15 "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;"

Those false teachers have "forsaken the right way". Logically they could not forsake the right way if they were never in the right way.

(5)

2 Pet 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

Logically these false teachers could not have escaped (past tense) the pollutions of the world if they were always polluted, always lost. They could not become AGAIN entangled if they were always entangled/always lost, never saved.

(6)

2 Pet 2:21 "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." these false teachers could not turn away from the way of righteousness if they never had had been in the way of righteousness.

(7)

2 Pet 2:22 "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

This is a graphic depiction of those false teachers that Peter said will come from among Christians, these false teachers had in the past "vomited" up all the sin and corruption in them having been "bought", that is, redeemed by the blood of Christ. Now they have gone back and have consumed AGAIN all that sin and corruption back into themselves. They could not leave that "vomit" alone, could not leave the sin and corruption alone. They go back to wallowing in the sin and corruption they had once been redeemed from by the blood of Christ, washed by the blood of Christ.


(8) those that had been 'bought" here in 2 Pet 2:1 were the ones Christ " purchased with his own blood" Acts 20:28. This is the connection you do not want to make for it kills your argument. Again those Peter speaks of in 2 Pet 2:1 had been "bought" - redeemed in the past tense. If Christ is not the "Master" that bought/redeemed them, then what man other than Christ has the power, ability to buy/redeem men? What man other than Christ has the power/ability to "wash" the sow clean?


The Calvinist continued to deny that "bought" has anything to do with be redeemed by the blood of Christ/salvation.
Denial does not prove or disprove anything.

The Calvinist was asked if "bought" does not refer to salvation then what alternative explanation can he give to the context of 2 Peter 2. To which the Calvinist replied "I have no obligation to do anything."

To the continued denial I replied:

To any Calvinist:


2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."


1) Who does "Lord" refer to?
2) What does the word "bought" mean in the context?
3) Who did this "Lord" buy and why did this "Lord" buy them?
4) why were those who were "bought" denying the "Lord" who bought them?

2 Peter 2:22 "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

How does this proverb relate to the false teachers in verse 1?


2 Peter 2:18 "For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error......20 .For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

How do these verses relate to the false teachers in verse 1?
What does the words "clean escape" mean in verse 18?
Who does the pronoun "they" in verse 20 refer to? The false teachers from verse 1 or the false teachers converts that were "clean" and had "escaped"?


2 Peter 2:15 "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;"

How does this verse relate to the false teachers of verse 1?
Who was Balaam and how do the false teachers of verse 1 relate to Balaam?



To which I never got a response.

 

[Triumph1300]

I would not however boast that I am going to Heaven to other people, that would be a Sin of pride.