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Featured Sell Your Possessions and Properties

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by biloqewu, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. biloqewu

    biloqewu Active Member

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    No,

    So therefore every one of you who does not give up all that he himself possesses, is not able to be my disciple.
    Luke 14:33

    Yeshuah answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
    Matthew 19:21

    When Yeshuah heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
    Luke 18:22

    Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
    Luke 12:33

    Looking at the man, Yeshuah felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
    Mark 10:21

    They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need.
    Acts 2:45

    And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit aeonial life?” And Yeshuah said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” When Yeshuah heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. Yeshuah, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
    Luke 18:18-25
     
  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine defines being poor with respect to time and not money. His definition of being poor is: -

    A person is poor if they do not have any time to contemplate their navel.

    So a rich and a poor man, money wise, can both be poor.
     
  3. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    It still tells us that we are to do that which was prepared for us to walk in. So doing nothing isn't an option.
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Salvation and being a disciple of Jesus are two different things.
     
  5. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    How so?
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Here Jesus is giving the rich young ruler an impossible task as a way to inherit eternal life.

    "All" means "all" that would include the pants on your legs and the shirt on your back.

    @biloqewu, you certainly would not be able to post on this message board if you really did this; because you wouldn't have a computer.

    And you also have to sell your bicycle, I'm sorry to say. "All" means "all".

    There are two ways by which we might seek to enter into the kingdom:

    1) through the keeping the law, or the moral requirement (perfectly).

    2) through believing in Christ and what He did for you on the Cross (i.e. the grace of God).

    I believe that the following scripture is appropo:

    Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    Gal 3:11, But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    Gal 3:12, And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
    Gal 3:13, Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    Jesus, for the sake of the rich young ruler, laid down the law: the rich young ruler was not loving his neighbor as himself because he was hoarding his possessions and not doing anything for his neighbor. The Lord set it forth in such a way that the rich young ruler would not be able to comply so that he would later realize that the gospel that Jesus died for him on the Cross is the way that he can enter in and so that he would take that avenue instead of the self-righteous attitude that he had taken with the Lord, thinking that he had measured up (though he was still empty inside and therefore asked the Lord, what do I still lack?).
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The requirement for being a disciple and the requirement for salvation are vastly different.

    I had a pamphlet once on the details of this but I don't have it anymore, I'm sorry to say.
     
  8. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Remember Moses, 40 years a sheep herder in the desert waiting, Joseph sold by his own family thrown in prison, waiting for his time, no body wants to wait, every one trying to impress God as if they could.
     
  9. Jun2u

    Jun2u Well-Known Member

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    @bilogewu and @Jay Ross,

    God was never interested in the economy of the world but man’s sick-sin-souls. In other words, these are those who are spiritually bankrupt (poor), in a nutshell, sinners.

    The alms (tithing) that we give today each week to our congregation is set aside to be used so that the Gospel can be preached to other countries by way of ministries. And, yes sometimes to help church members and pay all the bills of course. But the primary purpose is to send out the Gospel.

    Scripture gives us a beautiful illustration as Peter and John were about to enter the temple which is called Beautiful in Acts 3. Well, to make it short, why don’t you read the chapter to get the gist. Then come back and we can reason together.

    Another illustration is also found in Luke 18 specifically verses 24-26.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  10. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    I'm not entirely sure why, but after browsing this thread it seems like people are averse to what the bible instructs us about giving. Not sure why, because giving is a good thing and God is pleased when His people give in His name because it is to His glory. So bilogewu is exhorting us, with this thread as a reminder, to acts of charity. I dont understand why people would try to turn this around on him and be suspicious of his motives and start accusing him of self righteousness, as that doesn't seem called for. The bible speaks at length of the necessity of aiding the poor with alms (food, money, clothing, aid, shelter) and many scriptures have been posted in this thread that exhort the reader to do such things. Let us never forget the most sober warning of our Lord in Matthew 25:41-46.

    @biloqewu is committing no error here in, but following Hebrews 10:24 which says:

    And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,

    Additional scriptures about giving

    Luke 12:33


    "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys"

    2 Corinthians 9:6-7

    "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

    1 Timothy 6:18

    Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

    Proverbs 28:27

    He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them recieves many curses.

    Proverbs 14:21

    Blessed is he who is kind to the needy.

    Ephesians 4:28

    He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need
     
  11. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    One of the key things that keeps me working two hard jobs is that I know who my real boss is. Its not the county school board at job one nor the retailer at job 2... God is my boss. I am worjing for him. I am a giver and he provides me with a job to be able to give.

    And he's generous! My job allows me to have a comfortable but humble living as well as provide for hiswork through the ministry.

    All I have is on his loan and grace. I work for him and he gives me rainment and food. With that I am content. And my car, and my kick arse bike and everything else he gave me. And if he wants to give me a mansion, I will not go against his will!

    Jesus told a few people to sell all, and after the pentecost the HS asked (not required) some.

    I have stuff.... God gave it to me... If he needs it its there for him. I am willing to give it. But no.... We don't need to give it unless the call comes in.
     
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  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that @biloqewu is not exhorting us merely to give, but to get rid of all of our possessions.

    To me this seems extreme: this teaching will deter people from receiving Christ because, they will say, He demands too much of me.

    If you are going to be a disciple He demands great things of you; but to be saved all He demands of you is faith in what He did for you. If you love Him enough to become His disciple after being saved, He will most certainly be pleased with you.

    The way to life is indeed narrow, but the narrow path doesn't have to do with how difficult you make your life (it is strait in the kjv, not difficult). The narrowness is in that you come through Him; and that you don't trust in your own works to save you.

    People entering through the broad path try to enter in through what they do: this is the way that most people attempt to enter in by, even the broad path.

    But the narrow path has to do primarily with John 14:6.

    Jesus is the way and the truth and the life: no one comes to the Father except through Him.

    It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

    If you don't know Him personally, then nothing you do to try to earn acceptance with God will even matter.

    If you know Him, then He will lead you and guide you as to whether to give all your money to the poor or not.

    It is about receiving Him as Lord.

    It is not about a legalistic requirement.

    Therefore, if you sell all you have and give to the poor, it should not be because of the letter of the word.

    It should be a leading of the Holy Spirit.

    Of course He often speaks when we are reading His word, through the passage that we are reading.

    But usually when someone comes up to you and says, "I have a word for you..." it is best not to heed what is spoken unless the Lord also speaks to you the same thing in your own relationship with Him.

    We don't have a relationship with the Lord through other people:

    1Ti 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    re #70.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  13. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. There are many verses in scripture that tell of God giving an abundance to his faithful ones.

    Not that I disagree with these responses, but how do you reconcile them with Matthew 25:41-46?

    Agreed.
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The works / faith alone controversy is best reconciled by the following understanding.

    If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to bring about the transformation of heart and character that we call salvation.

    The only thing that will accomplish this is faith in Jesus and what he did for us on the Cross; and this alone. We must receive Him into our hearts and appropriate His shed blood.

    When we do this, salvation is accomplished, wherein the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5). This love is not in word or in tongue only but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:18). And it is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Galatians 5:14).

    Faith without works is dead because we are regenerated and renewed in salvation and this will produce attitudes and behaviour that are conducive to good works.

    However, one example of someone who was saved through faith alone (apart from works) is the thief on the cross. His only "work" was to confess Jesus before men (which I really do not identify as a work; but someone might). This was because he believed in Him. So in all reality it was his faith that made him righteous and his confession was unto salvation (Romans 10:9-10).

    Therefore the transformation is what matters and the works that develop out of that transformation are not salvational; they only prove (before men) the salvation of the person who is saved by faith alone in Jesus Christ.

    Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
    Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

    So, to answer your question, we minister to "Jesus" (i.e. the least of these His brethren) because He is living His life in and through us and we do the deeds mentioned in Matthew 25 because He has transformed our hearts so that it is our inclination to have compassion and mercy. Most of the time we don't even realize that we are doing it. The people in the parable who were righteous ask, When did we ever clothe You when You were naked, or feed You when You were hungry, or visit You when You were in sick or in prison?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    I already pointed out that these instructions to the Rich Young Ruler had a specific design. He had to chose between his money and Christ, and he chose his wealth.

    The rest of the New Testament clearly shows us that Christians were not monks and hermits who had taken the vow of poverty. The issue for Christians is whether their wealth becomes an idol. As the apostle John said "Little children, keep yourselves from idols".

    But he also said this to Gaius: Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. And because Gaius was blessed with wealth, he also said this to Gaius: Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers; Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:

    How could Gaius have been generous and charitable to the brethren and strangers, and helped them financially and materially, and provided for their missionary travels, if he had been totally destitute?

    Do you see right here that what you are promoting is a false idea about Christians become destitute so that they have to receive handouts from someone else.
     
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  16. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    And if you give away all your possesions who than will feed you...
     
  17. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I tend to think that attachment to things is the issue underlying priviate ownership.....can you live without your stuff/money or are you too obsessed/attached to them.
     
  18. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Luke 12:22-32
     
  19. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    And family, look at what the disciples gave up...
     
  20. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Have you done it. ??? Nice to quote scripture but unless you have lived it, it is all meaningless.
     
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