Seminary?!?

[Redeemed22]

Hello lovelies.I feel clearly called to vocational ministry, and God has been confirming it to me in several ways. I feel fuzzily drawn to attend seminary and then to be a pastor.Right now I am praying about attending seminary.Whether or not I attend, when I attend should I attend, and where I attend should I attend, are completely submitted to God's will. I adamantly refuse to purport the right to choose those things. With that said, I am praying about a particular aspect of those decisions. I am a junior in college, pursuing a double degree (to graduate on time within the four years, three semesters from now). I believe that God wants me to be in college at this exact time. Furthermore, most seminaries require a bachelor’s degree. So the conundrum is, would it be better to drop a major and go to seminary a year or semester earlier (to be a pastor for another year or half year than otherwise), or to have the extra time in college preparing for ministry in other ways (i.e., another year of heavy involvement of campus ministries). Ordinarily, I wouldn't think about this so much since I am not 100% sure that God wants me to go to seminary in the first place (still praying about it; willing but not presumptuous). However, it affects the classes that I am signing up for now and the commitments I make at my church (for campus ministry), and I humbly think that it is likely that God does desire me to go to seminary by numerous things He has shown me.God is not blind to my confusion. I believe he will reveal whatever He knows I need to know, just when I need to know it, and that will be sufficient! I just thought He might do that partly through advice, encouragement, warnings, etc from this forum.Any thoughts? Experience? Stories? Related Bible verses? Words of encouragement?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, my younger brother.I have advice being older.Do everything scholastically you can now to get it under your belt and over with and on your resume! Do now what you will not have time or resources for later.Get all the credits you can now that will aid you in your future vocation.And always remember if you become a pastor or doctor! -listening is so important -and repeating back -"Is this what I'm hearing you say?" To let the person know and confirm to yourself you are really understanding what it is they are saying before speaking on it.(In posts -always read them twice before responding. This is one of the wisest things an old person can tell a young person -always temper your reactions.)I digressed as I do talking to a young person humble enough to ask for any advice.That's all.

 

[Jimmy Engle]

This post is just amazing because I am currently going through the same thing. I have a huge passion for God and I plan on going to seminary school. I already found the school I want to go to and I am getting everything in line for setting myself up to go. One of the huge decisions I am currently praying about is if I should stop going to college in order to go right into seminary school or finish what I am currently doing. I am taking my first semester at a community college for liberal arts and sciences and I am miserable here because I have no interest in any of the classes I am taking. I looked at all the classes that I will take at seminary and none of them are even offered at the college I am currently at. I feel the right thing to do is once this semester is over to just take off of college and save up some money and just go after what I really want to do.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Can both of you talk to 3 pastors you respect and ask their advice ---you know, before you drop courses?One should be a pastor with a very high IQ -that sounds stupid maybe - but it isn't.Some are smarter and wiser than others.Your sis watching out for your future in my little way...Miss Hepburn

 

[Jimmy Engle]

I would but in my particular situation the school I am at doesn't offer anything that will really help me get into seminary school. I already took the English courses they require in order to be accepted so I think I am all set. I still have to double check but I am pretty sure it would be the best decision for me. But you are probably right and I will throw it by some people I know and see what they think but they will probably agree...especially when they see how on fire for God I am

 

[jerryjohnson]

Redeemed22 and Jimmy Engle,My first thought is to try to think of anything you would rather do more than being a minister. If you can think of something you would rather do, you shouldn't be a minister. Ministry is not all the "warm fuzzes" some people think it is. A lot of ministry is boring and tedious. If you are thinking about ministry because you want a life of Bible Study, don't go into the ministry or Seminary. If you want Bible study go to a Bible school, not a seminary. A seminary will spend a good amount of time teaching administrative skill, ie, how do you run a church. Remember a church is much more than Sunday school and Sunday morning worship. A church is a business; a pastor is a CEO. More on this later.My second thought is, if you have started college; finish college. You need to finish what you start. Don't jump from one project to another without finishing anything. It is discipline.

 

[Christina]

Just to play the advocate here ... I have talked with many who do attend seminary school most are not very happy as the Bible, Gods Word isnt the focus but men's religions,books by men , if the college you attend is of a certain denomination that is the focus of the teaching ... One doesn't need a college to understand scripture wisdom comes from God not men or there colleges ... We have church after church today filled with those who do not know the meat of Gods Word and no idea how to find it ..because no one today is taught how to study scripture,they are just told what to believe... All these ministers came out of these cookie cutter seminary'sto give us a church that is starving for the true word of God ... Amos 8:11-12 Today's religion is much about feel good doctrine with little substance .... I call it fast food religion .... I suggest you speak with others that are in the seminary and see what they think, what they are learning, can they answer your questions about scripture? Do they teach as God said Precept upon precept line upon line here a little there a little ... Or do they just give you a list of books written by men to read ? Not trying to discourage anyone here .. But if you think going to seminary school is going to teach you about Gods word ... You are most likely setting yourself up to be disappointed .... You may still enjoy it and learn about men's traditions and religious doctrines ...but it wont give you wisdom as God alone gives you that ...

 

[jerryjohnson]

Redeemed22 and Jimmy Engle,Let me ask you another question, why do you want to be a minister? What is it about the Christian ministry that excites you? Christina had some good words but unlike Christina, I am trying to talk you out of seminary and ministry.

 

[Redeemed22]

First of all, thanks everybody for your wonderful insights. I will try to answer your questions, but one or two at a time

for me[/I], that is, no calling for me into any non-ministry career.Upon reflection, I have had a desire to be a pastor/preacher most of my life. I first thought about it in early elementary school, upon no suggestion of anyone. I often ignored it for greater passions and desires. It would bounce in and out of my life. In late high school, it became more consistent and persistent. It built, and built, and built....and the desire became so strong that I would frequently plead with God to call me, although I knew my asking had nothing to do with the call. God calls whom He will, and it is not by their merit. God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called.I usually ignored it, but I have had Church leaders and other Christians, even in a few cases where they just met me, tell me that I was gifted for leadership, for teaching, for preaching, for discernment, for ministry, etc. The earliest I can remember was in third grade. A pastor pulled just me out of a crowd and prayed over me. Nonetheless, I temporarily forgot most of those experiences. I have been very ambitious and passionate and prideful. I have been very passionate about becoming an engineer, musician, professor, etc, each for years, and thus I didn't think about what people had been telling me.I hope this is something of an answer to jerryjohnson's question too.As to the tediousness and frustration of ministry, I definitely agree. When I was in third grade, we moved and my parents went to seminary. My dad became a pastor and my mother a chaplain. My family was intimately acquainted with all of the tiresome logistical aspects of a church, but more importantly the costs of ministry. Just a few months before today, my dad resigned as pastor because the church was about to implode or split. Over about 7 years, people had collected grudges (many akin to "color of the carpet" arguments), suspicions, and prejudices. It had previously been a comfort church, and any changes that were made or suggestions to become less complacent in faith, were considered treacherous. Many people sided with my dad, and many did not. He wasn't a perfect pastor... I don't think anyone is. But there weren't even the typical bogus accusations of theft, adultery, or drug use that usually come when people want to "overthrow" a pastor.I have seen my dad work with people for years just so see them relapse. I have seen people seem to radically change and then disappear for good on the day they were supposed to be baptized. I have seen my dad drained and wounded and worn thin. I know ministry has a high cost, and is not a lifestyle of ease, comfort, or gratification.I have prayed at great length to be careful not to confuse wanting to follow in the footsteps of my dad by going into ministry with going into ministry to be in step with the will of my Father. Upon reflection, I actually dismissed ministry because I didn't want to follow the footsteps of my dad. The very idea was tiresome and awkward and boring. The moments I would desire to go into ministry where like receiving emotions from elsewhere. They felt unnatural, so it was years before I listened to them.On a side note, my oldest sister thought she would never follow my mother (who was a geotechnical engineer before seminary). Now my sister is a geologist. I thought I would never follow my dad...I want to answer some of the other things later. Feel free to ask questions. Pry away! I appreciate the advice.-Redeemed22

 

[Redeemed22]

[quote name='Miss Hepburn;74989][COLOR=Purple]Can both of you talk to 3 pastors you respect and ask their advice ---you know' date=' before you drop courses?One should be a pastor with a very high IQ -that sounds stupid maybe - but it isn't.Some are smarter and wiser than others.Your sis watching out for your future in my little way...Miss Hepburn[/COLOR'][/QUOTE]Thanks sis!I have talked to several pastors about ministry over the years, but most of them not recently. It is a good challenge. If only those with high IQ were also guranteed to be wise, and visa versa. I can think of at least one brillant pastor who is also wise.You made me curious to look up some verses I hadn't read in a while."Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed. "Proverbs 15:22"for waging war you need guidance, and for victory many advisers."Proverbs 24:6"Make plans by seeking advice; if you wage war, obtain guidance. "Proverbs 20:18"Listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise."Proverbs 19:20"I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you and watch over you. Do not be like the horse or the mule, which have no understanding but must be controlled by bit and bridle or they will not come to you."Psalm 32 8-9-Redeemed22

 

[gumby]

I think you should test the waters first to see if these people base what they say on scripture, if what there teaching doesnt come from gods word then you dont want it. These scriptures should help: Colossians 2:8, Hebrews 3:12, Ephesians 5:6, 1st Timothy 6:20 and Romans 1:18. Be sure to check evrything and evryone out in the word including me, god bless

 

[HammerStone]

Redeemed22, I'm not much older than you and had a very similar consideration while I was in college. To make a long story short, I began in Computer Engineering because I've been strong in technology - it is one of the gifts God bestowed upon me to be able to figure things out on my own. After a really bad experience with some professors and just a general sense of unhappiness, I looked to change majors. Despite knowing that I could complete the degree, I just wasn't happy.A path to seminary was one of the things I looked at very hard, and still consider in the back of my mind. I feel strongly that God wanted me on a separate path from Engineering, and I do feel that I ended up right where I am supposed to be.The major issue for me with seminary is that you pretty much have to sacrifice your beliefs in order to pass the classes and potentially become ordained. Now I'm not saying this is always the case, but this is something to consider. I had both good and bad professors (some ordained) when I had a Religious Studies minor. I'm not knocking anyone personally, but there were classes where as long as you could provide proof for your case/beliefs you were fine, but then there were courses where it was the professor's way or the highway. I had a 4.0 except for one class where the professor did not agree with me one semester. I literally came up 2 points shy on a test because he would conveniently never include comments to show me why I lost points on my tests. I kindly asked and never got an answer.Some will say that's carping, but you run into it. This was an ordained minister who held a high position in a denomination outside of college.The other side of the coin is that being a modern pastor in the typical, seminary sense is that you not only have to be a pastor, but an administrator, businessman, and PR guy. I'm not saying modern pastors neglect their pastoring duties (God bless the many of them that still teach the truth despite the constraints!), but that it's not the same as when the Apostle Paul went around teaching. By trade he was a tentmaker (Acts 18:3).I just want you to know, regardless of path, that God will bring your spark around one way or another. In my instance I forwent seminary and ended up with a website. I'm still journeying down that path that God laid for me, but I know on some levels this website has done some good. At least one member entered the seminary thanks to the original team here.I'll be happy to answer any more questions based on what I know or the little experience I have. Otherwise, some excellent advice has come out in this thread - stick with the Word of God regardless of where you are, and you'll do just fine.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Very cool - thank you for those quotes!!Hey, I was also thinking -you could do so much good being a professsor of Bible Studies!!!!!! ( not Religious Studies, Ha!)Not all those church admin. hassles over carpert colors!!You'd be in charge of a classroom ---you wouldn't have to hassle with Myrtle's choice of coffee and Mrs. Humphrey's choice of decaf tea after services that way.All the posts so far are so good.Miss Hepburn

 

[Jimmy Engle]

To be honest I am not absolutely sure what I want to do. I feel a call for missions and evangelism but I need God to keep confirming that this is what He wants and not what I want. I have been praying to receive the baptism of the holy spirit because I know that without the power of God in my life I will never be able to accomplish His will.

 

[Christina]

If you are a believer in Christ and repented from your sins you already have the holy spirit working in your life ... If you feel the call then he is working in you .... You wont get fire works ...You will feel it when you just accept he is there working in you .... wanting more some big sign is to doubt he does as he says ... that door of doubt will allow Satan a foothold to confuse and cause doubts in you You keep wanting more but God tells you faith is believe in things not seen .... If you dont have enough faith to believe he is working in you ..How do expect to hear him We are told there will be NO sign except for Christ.. faith is knowing thats enough ...Its not Gods that fails to be there to answer your prayers ..Its you deciding you want your prayers answered in certain way to convince you ..your saved ... Just trust him the faith of a mustard seed can move moutains ...

 

[Jimmy Engle]

If you are a believer in Christ and repented from your sins you already have the holy spirit working in your life ... If you feel the call then he is working in you .... You wont get fire works ...You will feel it when you just accept he is there working in you .... wanting more some big sign is to doubt he does as he says ... that door of doubt will allow Satan a foothold to confuse and cause doubts in you You keep wanting more but God tells you faith is believe in things not seen .... If you dont have enough faith to believe he is working in you ..How do expect to hear him We are told there will be NO sign except for Christ.. faith is knowing thats enough ...Its not Gods that fails to be there to answer your prayers ..Its you deciding you want your prayers answered in certain way to convince you ..your saved ... Just trust him the faith of a mustard seed can move moutains ...

I never said that I didn't think I was saved or that the holy spirit isn't in me or working in my life. It definitely is but from my understanding I can have that to a much greater degree if I was given this precious gift of being filled to overflowing with the holy ghost. But maybe that is the reason why I haven't received the baptism of the holy spirit yet. When I pray for it I expect to experience the sensation of being filled with it's power but maybe by thinking that is the sign of having it is making my faith dwindle so God is holding it back until I change.

 

[Christina]

Having to call to teach preach is great and many of us have it ...However one must learn The Bible to be a good teacher ... This learning the word should be the biggest desire of one. The problem is you will not learn it in school ..It comes from study and learning how God teaches in his word ... For example God teaches on 3 differnt levels the surface text is just the begining of knowledge ..this is one reasin Paul is often misunderstood he teaches in three levels at once ...You can not learn these deeper levels without study ... God uses symbology (often in nature) to teach as you would a child he uses numbers and names... and so forth and so forth ...sitting around hoping some magic power or school will give you this wisdom is fruitless for it comes from God himself .. You must ask for wisdom ... Come as child with no preconceived notions or expectations and put in the work .... If you have a hunger for his Word read it ask questions even the simplist questions is a start ... He wrote you a letter he says he comes in the book not school not in men relgions Hbr 10:7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

 

[Christina]

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. In this verse of 2 Cor.There is one qualification to becoming a new creature or creation"if any man be in Christ. So the key here is to "be in Christ"What is this New creature its the Greek Word ktisis meaning :1) the act of founding, establishing, building etca) the act of creating, creationb) creation i.e. thing created1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creationa) anything createdGod essentually re-creates us in Gen 2:7 We see God creates us and gives us his breath of Life ..In 2 Cor. We see when we are in Christ he re-creates /establishes a new creature.There are two other root words here that explain further what God is saying here ktizō -to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transformktaomai- to acquire, get, or procure a thing for one's self, to possessa) as to marry a wife God is telling us that he creates a New creature of us completely transforms changes us spiritually that he can acquire, procure us to himself as one would a wife (Bride) Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. This part of the verse relates to the firt part of the verse "if any man be in ChristYou are in Christ when you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, begotten of the Heavenly Father, born of a virgin, and through His death on the cross, the price for your sins were paid for in full. Then in believing this, you repent to the Father God, in His Son "Jesus name", and accept the blood of Christ that was shed on the cross for the full payment of your sins. Upon repentance in Jesus name, Christ makes you a fresh person, clean from all your sins of the past in your inner man, and He forgives and blots out all those sins that have been repented of. Those sins that held a the death sentence on your soul have been taken away, and you are a new individual ready to be aquired by him.*see Gen 2:7 http://biblestudy.madmooseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=354

 

[Jimmy Engle]

AMEN TO THIS! One of the reasons why I am so miserable about school is because I have a HUGE urge to read the bible and to just lock myself up in my room so when I come out of my room I might have something to say about God. What you say is true. The bulk of what God teaches me will come through prayer and His word and not from school. I wish I had time for bible studies and just good solid fellowship with brother's and sister's in Christ. I'm not sure if I will continue going to school next semester I feel extremely tempted to stop going. This would give me time to study the bible and grow in faith and also save money and when I am ready just go straight to a school that teaches theology.

 

[Christina]

read my post just above your last post