Serious Issues

[ronniechoate34]

Why have the churches turned to corrupted manuscripts that were pushed by men who clearly didn't believe in the infallibility of the Bible?


Why have the churches began to purchase NIV bibles and hand them out to the parishioners when doing this supports pornographer Rupert Murdoch? How does this glorify God?


Why are people such as C.S. Lewis put on a pedestal as evangelicals? In fact C.S. Lewis denied a good many Biblical doctrines. Even the denial of one of the Bible's fundamental teachings is enough to cause alarm in my mind.


Why are the textual critics that deny many of the Bible's doctrines considered authorities on God's Word?


Why did the churches urge their parishioners to attend Mel Gibson's blasphemous movie? One lady actually dropped dead right in the theater. That's a sign folks.


Why can't I be free from sin every day of my life? I want to be purely flawless but this flesh is always dirty. I guess that's why I need Jesus to cleanse me often.


One cleansing won't do whilst we exist in this filthy place of battle.

 

[bigape]

Hello ronniechoate34

I have been asking the same questions.......
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Why have the churches turned to corrupted manuscripts that were pushed by men who clearly didn't believe in the infallibility of the Bible?

Because intellectualism is more important to them, than the truth.
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Why have the churches began to purchase NIV bibles and hand them out to the parishioners when doing this supports pornographer Rupert Murdoch? How does this glorify God?

For many years now, pastors have been working hard to get their Churches to stop using the KJV(I still have not figured out why), and the Churches that they get turned, will start glorifying what ever Bible the pastor chooses.
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Why are people such as C.S. Lewis put on a pedestal as evangelicals? In fact C.S. Lewis denied a good many Biblical doctrines. Even the denial of one of the Bible's fundamental teachings is enough to cause alarm in my mind.

Because most of God’s people have gotten away from the Word of God, they don’t seem to care about doctrine any more.
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Why are the textual critics that deny many of the Bible's doctrines considered authorities on God's Word?

Because they are intellectuals, and people have been convinced that they are smarter than God.
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Why did the churches urge their parishioners to attend Mel Gibson's blasphemous movie? One lady actually dropped dead right in the theater. That's a sign folks.

Because when you get away from God’s Word, entertainment is all that’s left.
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One cleansing won't do whilst we exist in this filthy place of battle.

I will leave the cleaning to God.
(I wasn’t sent here to clean up the pond[the world], but to just catch fish from it.)

 

[Martin W.]

ronniechoate34

Why are you letting this consume you?

If every single bible was removed from the face of the earth tomorrow , would you still have faith?

If tomorrow there were ten trillion King James bibles added to the books on earth would your faith increase?

If you lived a couple of hundred years ago and you could not read or write could you still be a christian?

It bothers me when I find the occasional mis-translation in the bible but if these things eat away at the core of a person it can be most harmful . Christ is not limited to a version of the bible. Try saying "King James Version" in Mongolian. You get the point.

 

[mjrhealth]

Can you imagine it, all the bibles removed from the world. People would actually have to turn to Jesus and rely on the Holy spirit for guidance, but knowing people they will just go to chuch and believe everything they are told, it is so much easier then hearing from God yourself.

In HisLOve

 

[ronniechoate34]

Without the Bible no one can know the facts of the matter. There are too many ways to be led astray, i.e. by listening to our hearts, or by apparitions, voices and hallucinations, our emotions, etc. Without the Words of God it would be all too easy for us to lose our place here.

 

[HammerStone]

I started out on a reply to this last night rather late, but decided to broach the topic when I was a little more alert and could elucidate my position a little more precisely.

Coincidentally, I Googled one of your topics last night when reading this thread. Ironically it brought me to a prominent yet curmudgeon "Christian" website. When you first visit the website, the primary featured content is a blog written by the owner (I assume). Only secondarily do you notice the various other links on the website to things like informational videos and mission links. Here is this article about the aforementioned topic, followed by numerous other articles just about all of which are full of the same negativity and concern with which affairs of the modern churches and their various denominations conduct things. I understand the idea of admonishment to keep the brethren on the straight and narrow path.

My problem comes when any ministry is replaced by negative comments or even bashing of others. (Note that I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, but to be honest it's a danger we all face.) This person had become so enraptured by telling everyone else what they've done wrong that he's begun to leave out Christ in his posts other than the obligatory "Christ said" or "Christ did" from time to time. It's the proverbial cannot see the forest for the trees. Frankly speaking, no one here, on the entire internet, or whomever existed under the title Christian ever has a monopoly on the truth.

We are to know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:16 and Matthew 7:20). In II John, we see that we are not to bid those who don't bring the doctrine of Christ godspeed even. Yet I do not see the chapter and verse where we are to go around always policing other Christians. Christ was rather explicit on how we are to handle ourselves both there in Matthew 7 and in Luke 6:41-42.

I guess my point here is that yes, even good men will have bad doctrines. We are not followers of Lewis, Calvin, Wesley, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Peter and so on. We are Christ -ian, literally meaning "Christ man/woman." Each of them have some things that are true and then others that are not (aside from the special case of the Apostles where what they have is canonized in the Bible, but it's not like the men did not have their moments of trouble - "Get thee behind me, Satan!" - and failure like us all). Don't concern yourself with trying to tear down the person or the name. Focus on the truth instead, otherwise you end up like the guy I mentioned.

 

[ronniechoate34]

I started out on a reply to this last night rather late, but decided to broach the topic when I was a little more alert and could elucidate my position a little more precisely.

Coincidentally, I Googled one of your topics last night when reading this thread. Ironically it brought me to a prominent yet curmudgeon "Christian" website. When you first visit the website, the primary featured content is a blog written by the owner (I assume). Only secondarily do you notice the various other links on the website to things like informational videos and mission links. Here is this article about the aforementioned topic, followed by numerous other articles just about all of which are full of the same negativity and concern with which affairs of the modern churches and their various denominations conduct things. I understand the idea of admonishment to keep the brethren on the straight and narrow path.

My problem comes when any ministry is replaced by negative comments or even bashing of others. (Note that I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, but to be honest it's a danger we all face.) This person had become so enraptured by telling everyone else what they've done wrong that he's begun to leave out Christ in his posts other than the obligatory "Christ said" or "Christ did" from time to time. It's the proverbial cannot see the forest for the trees. Frankly speaking, no one here, on the entire internet, or whomever existed under the title Christian ever has a monopoly on the truth.

We are to know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:16 and Matthew 7:20). In II John, we see that we are not to bid those who don't bring the doctrine of Christ godspeed even. Yet I do not see the chapter and verse where we are to go around always policing other Christians. Christ was rather explicit on how we are to handle ourselves both there in Matthew 7 and in Luke 6:41-42.

I guess my point here is that yes, even good men will have bad doctrines. We are not followers of Lewis, Calvin, Wesley, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Peter and so on. We are Christ -ian, literally meaning "Christ man/woman." Each of them have some things that are true and then others that are not (aside from the special case of the Apostles where what they have is canonized in the Bible, but it's not like the men did not have their moments of trouble - "Get thee behind me, Satan!" - and failure like us all). Don't concern yourself with trying to tear down the person or the name. Focus on the truth instead, otherwise you end up like the guy I mentioned.

The truth is that unbelievers don't have God's Word. They can't receive it. They can read it and garner their own carnal ideas from it, but they can't actually receive the truth of it until they believe.


It's seems crazy to me that Christians would listen to anything an unbeliever has to say concerning Biblical text. That's because it is.


Eze:3:18: When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze:3:19: Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

 

[HammerStone]

Matthew 7:1-2 KJV
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

John 6:37 KJV
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

 

[ronniechoate34]

Lu:12:57: Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?


Joh:7:24: Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.


You don't exercise judgment?


That's not advisable.


M't:7:15: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


2Co:11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.


We had better make judgment calls. Otherwise we will wind up following seducing seducing spirits and the doctrines of devils straight to hell.

 

[HammerStone]

I test the fruits, but no I don't fool myself into going around and making calls about who will and who won't end up in heaven. That's not my call, nor yours. Teach the truth, and stick to that. You don't have to impugn others to do that.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Teach the truth, and stick to that. You don't have to impugn others to do that.

The Holy Ghost will lead us in what's true. That's the problem with men like Westcott and Hort, they didn't ever receive a love for the truth.


I can read what Westcott and Hort wrote about themselves and their beliefs. I can study their history, and I can also study on the types of men they befriended.


Wolves in sheep's clothing? Of course I believe they were. I see many that are. There are many that just don't sound for real to me(Benny Hinn), they stray from fundamental doctrine, simply put,,they're heretics. But you are welcome to judge them otherwise,,,just don't say that no one warned you about it.

 

[bigape]

Hi HammerStone

I don’t mean to stick my nose into another’s conversation(ronniechoate34 is doing a good job of making his point), but you said something, that I just had to respond to.

You said.........

“I test the fruits, but no I don't fool myself into going around and making calls about who will and who won't end up in heaven.”

The testing of fruits that your talking about, determining whether someone will end up in heaven, by their doctrine..........

Matthew 7:16-20
V.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
V.17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
V.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
V.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
V.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
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The context of this passage is, that when someone’s fruit(gospel message), isn’t right, it is because they received the wrong seed(not the incorruptible seed).

In other words, when someone(anyone), preaches the wrong way to go to heaven, than we can know for sure, that they will not go to heaven.

 

[HammerStone]

Right, but when the fruits are tested and the result known, what we deal with becomes evident. So don't deal with it, but that's distinct from going around and making posts and writing blog entries about how bad of a person they are. Every word spent on that person is one less on God.

The problem comes around when folks feel they have to take it a step further and carry out the judging for Almighty God. Did it say go cast that tree into the fire? No, absolutely not. Yes, the tree will be cast into the fire if it's no good, but that task alone belongs to God. (Remember who burns the chaff in Matthew 3:13 and Matthew 3:17?) Does a tree go to heaven or is a tree something that you take a fruit from (draw back to the Garden in Genesis)? The context of the above lesson is don't take their fruit; it doesn't say make sure you go and smash all of their apples or cut a few limbs off.

The reason is that we, as humans, are not fit to be judge. There is a subtle but important difference between saying, I judge that persons fruits to not be of God so I'll stay away from them versus running to the nearest soapbox and shouting that person is a sinner and unbeliever judged to go to hell. Yes we have the Holy Spirit, but guess what? We don't know everything about a person, and the Holy Spirit does not see fit to give us that ability for good reason. If you want to stand here and tell me everything that ever comes out from your mouth is 100% correct, then you'll get nothing from me but a good chuckle. This man will be wrong, you will be wrong, as will everyone else that is here will be wrong on some grounds one way or another.

There's only one place for the model Christian to come from, and that is the Holy Word. If you don't agree with someone or don't like what they say, so be it. That's fine, I really don't expect everyone to agree on everything, even believers who are in Christ. (Christ said himself he came to bring a sword and division.) Be careful exactly whom you condemn to one. Like the good book says, take care of yourself and the rest will fall into place.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Right, but when the fruits are tested and the result known, what we deal with becomes evident. So don't deal with it, but that's distinct from going around and making posts and writing blog entries about how bad of a person they are. Every word spent on that person is one less on God.

The problem comes around when folks feel they have to take it a step further and carry out the judging for Almighty God. Did it say go cast that tree into the fire? No, absolutely not. Yes, the tree will be cast into the fire if it's no good, but that task alone belongs to God. (Remember who burns the chaff in Matthew 3:13 and Matthew 3:17?) Does a tree go to heaven or is a tree something that you take a fruit from (draw back to the Garden in Genesis)? The context of the above lesson is don't take their fruit; it doesn't say make sure you go and smash all of their apples or cut a few limbs off.

The reason is that we, as humans, are not fit to be judge. There is a subtle but important difference between saying, I judge that persons fruits to not be of God so I'll stay away from them versus running to the nearest soapbox and shouting that person is a sinner and unbeliever judged to go to hell. Yes we have the Holy Spirit, but guess what? We don't know everything about a person, and the Holy Spirit does not see fit to give us that ability for good reason. If you want to stand here and tell me everything that ever comes out from your mouth is 100% correct, then you'll get nothing from me but a good chuckle. This man will be wrong, you will be wrong, as will everyone else that is here will be wrong on some grounds one way or another.

There's only one place for the model Christian to come from, and that is the Holy Word. If you don't agree with someone or don't like what they say, so be it. That's fine, I really don't expect everyone to agree on everything, even believers who are in Christ. (Christ said himself he came to bring a sword and division.) Be careful exactly whom you condemn to one. Like the good book says, take care of yourself and the rest will fall into place.

I just want to give people something to think about. Also, you are the only one on this page who brought up the subject of hell.

 

[JohnDB]

I just want to give people something to think about.

Well...think about this then.

Greek, Ancient Latin, Hebrew, and Aramaic cannot be precisely translated into English. English. as a receptor language, is the poorest receptor language in existence. Even Elizabethan English isn't sufficient to receive these languages.

So...for proper interpretation a person must learn the languages that the Bible was originally written in...learn their grammar and alphabets or else they aren't going to be able to read it in the manner that God had them written in.

OR

You can have faith that God seen fit to bless us with what we have. And gratefully accept it instead of looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Well...think about this then.

Greek, Ancient Latin, Hebrew, and Aramaic cannot be precisely translated into English. English. as a receptor language, is the poorest receptor language in existence. Even Elizabethan English isn't sufficient to receive these languages.

So...for proper interpretation a person must learn the languages that the Bible was originally written in...learn their grammar and alphabets or else they aren't going to be able to read it in the manner that God had them written in.

OR

You can have faith that God seen fit to bless us with what we have. And gratefully accept it instead of looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Looking a gift horse in the mouth. That's rich.:lol: